New TWA Flight 800 film coming out

[Jetblast]

As you pointed out, the nose gear doors were recovered. They show no signs of high velocity fragmentation.

You haven't answerd the nose gear assembly blast striations with your contrived evasions.

The doors were blasted inward. There's no explanation for that with an internal fuel tank explosion.

 

[Jetblast]

I don't have to explain it. An aircraft destroyed by an anti-aircraft missile will either have 1. high velocity fragment penetrations or 2. high velocity fragment penetrations and explosive residue. It can never have just explosive residue.

Your side already entered the new continuous rod missile. You input is easily dismissible.

 

[Jetblast]

My answer exposed Hughes for the right-wing conspiracy nut he is. He said the aircraft still has missile fragment penetrations in it yet Stalcup was given complete access to the reconstructed fuselage. D'oh!

That's a wishy washy, uncredible answer.


Your assumption that Stalcup, a physicist, should have recorded all the missile evidence on a walking tour of the wreckage is silly. I think you've just about conceded, thanks. Meanwhile the experts are in the new documentary pretty much confirming missile evidence was illegally concealed.

 

[Jetblast]

You have fringe group of people, your experts who believe in BS. Google failed. You have no evidence, you have hearsay, lies and BS.

You're just name-calling. The credentials of the ARAP and FIRO members are listed on their site. 1) They are top level vs yourself. 2) They have evidence you haven't been able to answer except this obviously silly stuff that fails to meet the standard of argument and evidence they present.

 

[jhunter1163]

Dare I ask what the names of the two officers relieved of duty were?

 

[matt.tansy]

Sorry, Fred Meyer and his massive credibility as far as brilliant anti-aircraft high-explosives flashes, is what is being ignored here.

The Infallible Fred Meyer in his own words: http://newcity.patch.com/groups/mic...ng-of-twa-800--part-2--major-meyer-speaks-out

... that's the size of the fireball. As we were flying over about my 2 o'clock position - the north west - the sun - the lower limb of the sun was just on the horizon.

Oops.

No eyewitness is infallible.

 

[Jetblast]

Why would the explosion plume from the fuel tank be symmetrical? Wouldn't it blow out the weakest point in the tank, wherever that might be?

Because the fuel tank wreckage shows a uniform blasting of the center tank's forward wall. This was part of the forensic evidence NTSB presented to claim a center tank explosion to be the initiating cause.

They forgot to note however that airplane parts from forward of the fuel tank area were found in the first wreckage zone. This means the first parts of the plane to break-off and fall to the sea were from a place on the aircraft that didn't correspond to the tank exploding. This is all available in the evidence if you research it.

 

[Jetblast]

You mean the seat glue? PETN was found in one small sample, in trace amounts. Irrelevant and already explained. And why are you obsessing on the PETN rather than the RDX and nitroglycerine traces also found?

You have no right to ignore that FBI lied about the seat glue and why.

"Already explained"? I don't think so.

 

[CORed]

It was an SSBN. They carry ICBMs. They do not carry Surface to Air Missiles. They are not even fitted for them. There is a substantial difference between a Trident and an SM-2. There is also no Guided Missile equipment mounted anywhere on an SSBN, to guide the SAM to the target.

From the 'What Really Happened To Flight 800' website:



" Despite early denials, the Navy finally admitted that there had been three submarines present in the area on the night of the crash. The Trepang; a Sturgeon class attack submarine, the Albuquerque; a type 688 Los Angeles class fast attack submarine equipped with vertical launch tubes, and the Wyoming, a nuclear ballistic missile submarine just out of Groton on sea trials. It has just surfaced that something went wrong on those trials, delaying the commissioning of the Wyoming, and her captain and exec were relieved of command. "



What about the Trepang?


One of its seaman claimed "We shot down Flight 800."


You guys are great at demanding information. Especially when any credible people's democracy should have access to its military records in such an event. You operate under the premise that the government and military always tell the truth. Even right next to your own written statements that they have an accepted license to misinform (lie).

Interesting: The post quoted states that the submarines were not capable of carrying anti-aircraft SAM's, yet you do not address this issue at all. Your response is more unsupported claims form yet another conspiracy theorists' website.

I suppose you'll be supplying the name of the seaman who said "We shot down flight 800" at the same time you provide the name of the captain who was relieved (never?).

 

[thedopefishlives]

You have no right to ignore that FBI lied about the seat glue and why.

"Already explained"? I don't think so.

No, it was already explained, you just didn't like the answer.

Hey, got that report and/or testimony from the Long Island Coroner yet? All I've seen is a bunch of hearsay and third-hand (not even second-hand!) reporting.

 

[Jetblast]

The letter from the two women who claimed to have seen a US warship off Fire Island a few hours before the crash: http://twa800.com/pages/perry.htm

You dodged answering where I showed Kallstrom admitted the radar tracks were Navy vessels.

 

[JayUtah]

They forgot to note however that airplane parts from forward of the fuel tank area were found in the first wreckage zone. This means the first parts of the plane to break-off and fall to the sea were from a place on the aircraft that didn't correspond to the tank exploding. This is all available in the evidence if you research it.

This is utter nonsense. Learn how aerodynamics applies to high-altitude airframe breakups. Kindly don't patronize your critics for their supposed misunderstanding of a professional field you clearly know nothing about.

 

[CORed]

Dare I ask what the names of the two officers relieved of duty were?

How about the name of the seaman who is claimed to have said, "We shot down Flight 800."?

Jetblast really has no idea what credible evidence is or how to support it. It's kind of funny to watch him flail around making one unfounded claim after another while utterly failing to support any of them or address the refutations of them.

 

[CORed]

This is utter nonsense. Learn how aerodynamics applies to high-altitude airframe breakups. Kindly don't patronize your critics for their supposed misunderstanding of a professional field you clearly know nothing about.

From the Wikipedia article on Fight 800 (okay, not the most authoritative source, but better than what Jetblast is citing), the NTSB believes that the center fuel tank exploded, causing the forward part of the fuselage to break off, the plane continued in "crippled flight", on fire, then other fuel tanks exploded. The "streak of light" or "missile" that many eyewitnesses reported is believed to be the rear part of the plane on fire, which was followed by the second round of fireballs when the other tanks ignited.

To me, this is a perfectly plausible explanation for the many eyewitness accounts of a missile hitting the plane.

 

[JayUtah]

Jetblast rally has no idea what credible evidence is or how to support it.

Agreed. He has no idea what forensic science is, what an investigation in the real world actually entails (forensic or otherwise), nor the simple logic of how to test a proposition.

It's kind of funny to watch him flail around making one unfounded claim after another while utterly failing to support any of them or address the refutations of them.

Amusing indeed except for the arrogance of claiming victory with every third sentence. One of the big differences between a conspiracy theorist and an actual investigator is that the former, while sometimes temporarily enamored with some favored proposition, will be swayed by evidence and will actually demonstrate the willingness to find truth. The conspiracy theorist in contrast is simply about attaining some semblance of victory over his critics.

 

[JayUtah]

... ausing the forward part of the fuselage to break off, the plane continued in "crippled flight", on fire, then other fuel tanks exploded.

Every airframe breakup while in normal controlled flight is described by hybrid aerodynamic-ballistic trajectories. The landed debris patterns are counterintuitive to people who haven't studied and practiced the discipline.

 

[matt.tansy]

If an HH-60 helicopter is 12 nm from a crash site and heads towards it at its 159 kt cruising speed at the same time a ship 2.5 nm on the opposite side of the crash site heads away from it at 30 kts, how far will the ship be from the helicopter when the helicopter arrives at the crash site?

Bonus question: what are the odds the crew of the helicopter would see a 500+ foot long warship from the above distance given that one of the crew has Infallible Human Memory Storage and Imperviousness to Illusions?

 

[thedopefishlives]

If an HH-60 helicopter is 12 nm from a crash site and heads towards it at its 159 kt cruising speed at the same time a ship 2.5 nm on the opposite side of the crash site heads away from it at 30 kts, how far will the ship be from the helicopter when the helicopter arrives at the crash site?

Bonus question: what are the odds the crew of the helicopter would see a 500+ foot long warship from the above distance given that one of the crew has Infallible Human Memory Storage and Imperviousness to Illusions?

Zero, if the crew member in question fails his spot check.

 

[CORed]

Agreed. He has no idea what forensic science is, what an investigation in the real world actually entails (forensic or otherwise), nor the simple logic of how to test a proposition.



Amusing indeed except for the arrogance of claiming victory with every third sentence. One of the big differences between a conspiracy theorist and an actual investigator is that the former, while sometimes temporarily enamored with some favored proposition, will be swayed by evidence and will actually demonstrate the willingness to find truth. The conspiracy theorist in contrast is simply about attaining some semblance of victory over his critics.

For me the declarations of victory are part of the entertainment factor. This guy makes the Black Knight look rational.

 

[tsig]

How about the name of the seaman who is claimed to have said, "We shot down Flight 800."?

Jetblast rally has no idea what credible evidence is or how to support it. It's kind of funny to watch him flail around making one unfounded claim after another while utterly failing to support any of them or address the refutations of them.

It's funnier watching him score own goal after own goal while missing all his opponents shots then declaring victory.