New TWA Flight 800 film coming out

[Jetblast]

He's using World Nut Daily as a source? Methinks I'd need to see a little higher quality journalism...

I believe Cashill can verify his sources. The unidentified tracks were part of the evidence collected by FBI and NTSB. I don't think you could show where Cashill incorrectly reported it.

 

[carlitos]

I'll work on that and you can work on where NASA scientist Charley Basset admitting he never did any tests showing the strange reddish purple residue streaked across the seats in a missile exhaust plume pattern was seat glue leaves us? That means FBI was caught lying and has no explanation for the residue which it then illegally dumped in a dumpster behind the hangar. When I find your Captain maybe he can help us with that too?

Argument from authority, Gish Gallop, begging the question, etc.

Seriously, just name the captain. You said he was relieved of duty, and drew conclusions based on the significance of that, and you don't even know his name. What, it's not in your book?

 

[Jetblast]

Unscathed?



Compared to a tire that was exposed to a missile warhead detonation.

You are not showing the correct tire. You know very well that the tire I'm speaking about was the nose gear tire that was shredded in a high intensity explosion. As a matter of fact the fact you show a relatively undamaged tire from the same aircraft only emphasizes that the damage to the nose tire is anomalous and needs explanation. Thanks.

 

[matt.tansy]

Google: WND Did Navy Sub Missile Hit TWA 800



Specifically look how Kallstrom found out the subs Trepang, Wyoming, and Albuquerque were on classified maneuvers that evening in the area and that 4 unidentified tracks were seen on radar. The disappearance of several of those tracks immediately after the crash suggests submarine behavior.

Every submarine operation is classified. When a sub leaves the pier to go out and run engineering and fire drills in its own home waters its movement and current, past, and future locations instantly become classified Confidential. When the sub is on deployment overseas everything gets upgraded to Secret. When it goes on "special operations" everything is Top Secret.

Talk to another submariner if you don't believe me when I tell you US submarines cannot dive as quickly as the old world War 2 boats could. Until then you will continue to look like a drowning man hanging onto an anvil for flotation.

And nuke subs cannot do anywhere near 30 knots on the surface.

 

[Jetblast]

The fuselage might not have landed flat on its side; it may have hit at an angle of maybe 20 or 30 degrees, enough to pop out the slots on the impacting side but not on the "uphill" side. And matt.tansy has already explained that the damage to the nose gear assembly is not consistent with a close-by missile explosion.

I answered that. I said his explanation does not scientifically preclude a prior non shrapnel explosion exposing the assembly while a second shrapnel explosion scored it. It was Tansy who did not answer this. Nor did you or Tansy answer the necessary forensic question of the gouges themselves. Your answer does not make the gouges the investigators found disappear. They require explanation that neither you nor Tansy ever gave.

 

[matt.tansy]

You are not showing the correct tire. You know very well that the tire I'm speaking about was the nose gear tire that was shredded in a high intensity explosion. As a matter of fact the fact you show a relatively undamaged tire from the same aircraft only emphasizes that the damage to the nose tire is anomalous and needs explanation. Thanks.

Count em:

http://avioners.net/wp-content/uplo...ng_747-8_lufthansa_landing_gear_retracted.jpg

Notice the tires' location relative to the support:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3033/2977913561_8b3142d941.jpg

 

[Jetblast]

Every submarine operation is classified. When a sub leaves the pier to go out and run engineering and fire drills in its own home waters its movement and current, past, and future locations instantly become classified Confidential. When the sub is on deployment overseas everything gets upgraded to Secret. When it goes on "special operations" everything is Top Secret.

Talk to another submariner if you don't believe me when I tell you US submarines cannot dive as quickly as the old world War 2 boats could. Until then you will continue to look like a drowning man hanging onto an anvil for flotation.

And nuke subs cannot do anywhere near 30 knots on the surface.

There is reason to believe these were not engineering and fire drills. The Whiskey test grounds were activated and the P-3 was engaged. A test missile was fired from Virginia. Kallstrom was caught lying about their existence.


We need to find out what the 4 tracks were and why they disappeared? You can't just not explain evidence. Especially through a pattern of excuses.

 

[matt.tansy]

I answered that. I said his explanation does not scientifically preclude a prior non shrapnel explosion

Except for the simple fact no such missile exists.

shrapnel

You keep using that word. It does not mean what you think it means.

 

[Jetblast]

Count em:

http://avioners.net/wp-content/uplo...ng_747-8_lufthansa_landing_gear_retracted.jpg

Notice the tires' location relative to the support:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3033/2977913561_8b3142d941.jpg

Showing a photo of a 747 doesn't nearly answer what I wrote.


Answer specifically how the Flight 800 tire you showed that was in pretty good shape didn't suffer the blast shredding that the nose gear tire suffered? There's forensics involved with this that you haven't answered.

 

[Jetblast]

Except for the simple fact no such missile exists.

Who said it was a missile? Maybe it was a diving Al Qaeda suicide aircraft.


Your debunking cable TV programs showed a blip they said was too slow to be a missile. However they never mentioned it being too slow to be a diving suicide aircraft did they? That would be just the right speed, wouldn't it? And the radar caught it.

 

[matt.tansy]

There is reason to believe these were not engineering and fire drills.

We know the Trepang was playing with the P-3. We know the Wyoming was conducting a shakedown cruise. That leaves Albuquerque by herself. Subs by themselves do not play with other subs. Especially at 8:30 PM at night. At 8:30 PM at night the School of the Boat has been dismissed and the qualified submariners are 30 minutes into watching the evening movie.

The Whiskey test grounds were activated

The Whiskey areas are assigned to aircraft, not submarines. Submarines are assigned to the NBOA. The air exercise message that comes out weekly is about 50 pages long of repetitive airdale crap that submariners just toss in the trash.

The Whiskey areas are always active. Even when no military units are using them. Half of their planned exercises get cancelled because of some material problem with an aircraft.

and the P-3 was engaged. A test missile was fired from Virginia.

As I said before, the Navy will be happy to know they have a 275 mile range anti-aircraft missile.

Kallstrom was caught lying about their existence.

Citation needed.

We need to find out what the 4 tracks were and why they disappeared? You can't just not explain evidence.

I did explain it. You just have to read it with an open mind.

 

[matt.tansy]

Showing a photo of a 747 doesn't nearly answer what I wrote.

It shows you can't identify the nose gear from the main gear by the number of tires each carriage has.

 

[matt.tansy]

Who said it was a missile? Maybe it was a diving Al Qaeda suicide aircraft.


Your debunking cable TV programs showed a blip they said was too slow to be a missile. However they never mentioned it being too slow to be a diving suicide aircraft did they? That would be just the right speed, wouldn't it? And the radar caught it.

Sure. Makes absolute sense.







Someone tell me why I've been arguing with this guy?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Except for the two witnesses who were there that said it did.


There's no reason to question their obviously unrehearsed comments.


They were there. Do you put yourself before them?

Yes I put myself before them. They never saw the missile launch and cruise to the target. They don't know there was a missile at all.
There certainly is no way an AA missile at 10 miles sent any kind of blast or shock-wave to them.

I have watched missiles launch and destroy their targets. I have been on the receiving end of air attacks that delivered much bigger ordnance and I| have seen, felt and heard it explode close by. I have felt the shock of a sister ship exploding when a 500 lb bomb dropped earlier that penetrated the hull without detonating has exploded while a team were trying to make it safe.

I know when someone is mistaken or spouting BS about this.

 

[carlitos]

Someone tell me why I've been arguing with this guy?

If you're taking a break to ponder diving suicide Al Qaeda aircraft with missiles, you might give these extremely long forum posts a read, via the link.

The following multi-part post is my longest post ever on the JREF Forums. As this is an original work it does not violate Rule 4 guidelines to the best of my understanding. But coming from me, this is no idle threat.

For those who disapprove of wordy Forum posts, or those who live life three steps at a time, I respect your aversion and offer the following concise summary:

Conspiracy theories in general and 9/11 conspiracies in particular are not logical, so debating with folks who believe in them is usually pointless and leads to a lot of yelling. It's better to just find the root mistake, point it out for everyone, and let it go. Humans are simply not logical creatures.​

If you disagree with the above sentiment, I invite you to consider my argument in depth, presented below. Thank you for your consideration.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Bwahahahaha! Cashill's depth of knowledge of submarine operations must have come from Hollywood. It takes an hour to submerge a modern nuke sub! You have to haul down all the crap you hauled up, shift the watch below, grease, shut, and secure the clamshells, silicone and secure the bridge box connection, rig the bridge for dive, shut, drain, and seal the upper hatch, rig the bridge access trunk for dive, shut, drain, and seal the lower hatch, blah, blah, blah. I'm afraid he fell for another BS story.

But what happens when they get 'bounced' by a patroling Catalina and they have to do a crash dive?
We all know they get the hatch shut just in time as water is gushing down the conning tower ladder and depth charges are splashing in the water around them and cannon shells are pinging off the casing!!

Then they have to lie quiet on the seabed while the destroyers search backwards and forwards overhead dropping random patterns on them. They only get away by releasing a decoy mix of oil and random junk along with the body of the Bo'sun who bravely sacrificed himself rescuing a seaman trapped under a torpedo that jumped out of it's cradle while they were diving!

Iv'e seen the films.

 

[catsmate]

A key component of planes is metal, plastics and other materials it would be damn surprising if they had not found shrapnel of various kinds after the plane exploded

Indeed.

Christine Negroni, who wrote her own book about the crash, interviewed the radar expert who was hired to examine the radar records for the investigation.

Full story here: http://christinenegroni.blogspot.com/2013/07/hubris-has-starring-role-in-twa-800.html]

A mile and a half??? That's (a mile and a half/half a mile)^6 times more amazing than half a mile! I guess they dropped the mile and a half claim because it was so ludicrous and decided to go with the half mile claim.

No wonder that didn't appear in the CT "documentary" it rather demolishes their silly missile nonsense.

Google: WND Did Navy Sub Missile Hit TWA 800

No. It's your theory, you present your evidence. If you have any.

Talk to another submariner if you don't believe me when I tell you US submarines cannot dive as quickly as the old world War 2 boats could. Until then you will continue to look like a drowning man hanging onto an anvil for flotation.

And nuke subs cannot do anywhere near 30 knots on the surface.

Of course nuke boats avoid spending time on the surface where possible.

Except for the simple fact no such missile exists.

JB determinedly avoids saying what type of missiles(s) supposedly downed TWA 800 as that'd make it easy to refute his theory.

 

[JayUtah]

Who said it was a missile?

You did, several times.

Maybe it was a diving Al Qaeda suicide aircraft.

Which now you'll argue will shake a bascule bridge 10 miles away?

Are you just making this stuff up as you go?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Who said it was a missile? Maybe it was a diving Al Qaeda suicide aircraft.


Your debunking cable TV programs showed a blip they said was too slow to be a missile. However they never mentioned it being too slow to be a diving suicide aircraft did they? That would be just the right speed, wouldn't it? And the radar caught it.

So all that talk of Mach 4 Ejecta and the explosion of an AA missile shaking a bridge 10 miles away are redundant, you think it was a Kamikaze attack?

 

[matt.tansy]

JB determinedly avoids saying what type of missiles(s) supposedly downed TWA 800 as that'd make it easy to refute his theory.

Except it still doesn't explain why a small aircraft full of high explsoives still didn't send fragments of said small aircraft into the 747. Maybe the suicide pilot secured the explosives onto the top of this aircraft with tie straps?