Merged Continuation Part 2: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[boooeee]

Also, as there seems to have been some questions as to how many times GZ called the police in the past, here is a compilation from the Daily Beast:

George Zimmerman’s History of 911 Calls: A Complete Log

In the prior eight years (from August 2004 to February 2012), GZ had made a total of 46 calls to 911 and the non-emergency number.

In the prior year, GZ had made 10 calls, not counting his call the night of the shooting.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Common knowledge doesn't cut it on a skeptics forum. Especially common knowledge that contradicts George Zimmerman's appearance at the time of the shooting.

I think the fact that GZ was obese at the time of the shooting should be common knowledge. Both his and TMs height and weight have been discussed repeatedly.

If the burden of proof is to solely be on the person making the claim, then please start backing up all your claims with evidence. I have corrected your mis-statements numerous times.

Was Trayvon required to look up at the sky all the time or down at the ground?
In a condo complex full of tightly packed houses, it's really hard to avoid the sin of looking at them otherwise.

And as has been mentioned before, the Neighborhood Watch documents don't list that as suspicious behavior. They list more explicit things like checking the doors of homes that appear to be unoccupied.

Does the example neighborhood watch manual contain an exhaustive list suspicious behavior ?

It seems to me that it is reasonable for two people to disagree about what might constitute suspicious behavior. I imagine it's even possible people might even occasionally have a difficult time putting into words what exactly caused their suspicion. Perhaps a gut feeling, or something just "seemed off."

I also imagine it's possible GZ didn't feel compelled to go into minute detail about what he found suspicious about TM. Certainly the police were willing to come out based on GZ description of what he found suspicious. If there was truly nothing suspicious in the actions, shouldn't the NEN operator have said to GZ "We don't need to come out, you have simply described perfectly normal behavior" ?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Do we know this? Do we even know exactly where George's car was parked before someone removed it?

Yes, but only according to GZ.

Yes, according to the witness testimony.

 

[Upchurch]

Again, what is this bizarre belief that you need to walk right up to a window in order to look in it?

So, you are equating someone walking down the street looking at houses being the equivalent to "looking in windows"? I walk along my street all the time and I look at the houses. Are you suggesting I'm casing the joint(s)? Is he supposed to look at his feet in order to avoid suspicion?

If so for him, why not for me?

You forgot the option: looking about because he wanted to replace the pile of stolen jewelery that had been confiscated.

Now you are just making stuff up. Martin had been found with jewelry in the past, but he wasn't even charged, let alone convicted. Also

No evidence ever surfaced that the jewelry was stolen.

I still see something of a double standard in the presumption of innocence.

 

[Jono]

Zimmerman's father is white mother is Hispanic , what else would he be called?

He was "caublatino" (caucasian, black, latino) which phrased in light of Tiger Wood's own term for his ethniticity; 'caublasian' (caucasian, black, asian). Regardless, neither of the two are reasonably considered to be white (for the same reason Halle Berry isn't considered white).

 

[katy_did]

George got out of his truck to chase after Trayvon. He admitted to this during his phone call to the police. But when he tells the story the next day, he claims it was just to get an address. He claims to have gone to the other street then straight back. But if he did that, he would have been back at the T a couple minutes earlier.

Look at the evidence and it's clear that George kept looking for the "suspect". Most likely going south on the street, then coming back on the path at the back of the condos. Knowing that George didn't want this ******* to get away like all the others, it's likely the George tried to detain Trayvon.

The problem is the evidence shows the fight started at the T (according to multiple witnesses and the car keys dropped at the T), so if you're right and Zimmerman went all the way round the street before the encounter with Martin, he somehow managed to follow him all the way back to the T. If Zimmerman came up the path from the south, far more likely that the fight would've started nearer Martin's house and moved north, not started at the T and moved south.

I don't think Zimmerman said he walked straight back to the car; he said he spent time trying to get his flashlight to work, IIRC.

 

[WildCat]

So, you are equating someone walking down the street looking at houses being the equivalent to "looking in windows"? I walk along my street all the time and I look at the houses. Are you suggesting I'm casing the joint(s)? Is he supposed to look at his feet in order to avoid suspicion?

A burglar isn't going to run up to a window and peer into it while casing a house, way too obvious. Instead they look in while casually walking by, perhaps finding excuses to pause near said window in order to get a better view.

If so for him, why not for me?

You'd be just as suspicious to me if you were raising those red flags. Looking a little too long in the windows, walking a little too slow, etc.

 

[Upchurch]

For what it's worth:

The only minority on the all-female jury that voted to acquit George Zimmerman said today that Zimmerman "got away with murder" for killing Trayvon Martin and feels she owes an apology Martin's parents.

...

But her feelings about Zimmerman's actions are clear.

"George Zimmerman got away with murder, but you can't get away from God. And at the end of the day, he's going to have a lot of questions and answers he has to deal with," Maddy said. "[But] the law couldn't prove it."

 

[TheL8Elvis]

For what it's worth:

A few more quotes:

She said the jury was following Florida law and the evidence, she said, did not prove murder.

...
"That's where I felt confused, where if a person kills someone, then you get charged for it," Maddy said. "But as the law was read to me, if you have no proof that he killed him intentionally, you can't say he's guilty."

When asked by Roberts whether the case should have gone to trial, Maddy said, "I don't think so."

"I felt like this was a publicity stunt. This whole court service thing to me was publicity," she said.

 

[Upchurch]

A burglar isn't going to run up to a window and peer into it while casing a house, way too obvious. Instead they look in while casually walking by, perhaps finding excuses to pause near said window in order to get a better view.

As would a person casually walking by...

You'd be just as suspicious to me if you were raising those red flags. Looking a little too long in the windows, walking a little too slow, etc.

And how do you tell the difference between a burglar and a slow, casual walker? I know one of those who walks through my neighborhood daily. Are you saying I should be calling the police on him as a potential burglar?

Come on, WildCat. Haven't you ever sat outside and people-watched? Barring joggers and bike-riders, you pretty much just described anyone.

 

[Dissolution]

For what it's worth:

That woman sounds extremely confused.
She wanted to find him guilty, claims that he got away with murder and then says it should never have gone to trial.

Good luck to her selling her story, though.
She already sounds like she's going to sue for emotional distress or something, so she might need a little more cash for the legal fees.

 

[Cylinder]

For what it's worth:

Yup. It's fairly telling that a juror so obviously upset about Zimmerman acting in self defense acknowledges that there was no evidence to even bring him to trial, no less convict him.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

For what it's worth:

Also FWIW:

However, on the second day of deliberations, after spending nine hours discussing the evidence, Maddy said she realized there wasn't enough proof to convict Zimmerman of murder or manslaughter under Florida law.

"That's where I felt confused, where if a person kills someone, then you get charged for it," Maddy said. "But as the law was read to me, if you have no proof that he killed him intentionally, you can't say he's guilty."

When asked by Roberts whether the case should have gone to trial, Maddy said, "I don't think so."

"I felt like this was a publicity stunt. This whole court service thing to me was publicity," she said.

So I have to compliment this woman as in some ways the ultimate example of a juror who put aside her emotions and even what she obviously suspected (wrong or not) and ruled on the evidence.

 

[bynmdsue]

"That's where I felt confused, where if a person kills someone, then you get charged for it," Maddy said. "But as the law was read to me, if you have no proof that he killed him intentionally, you can't say he's guilty."

When asked by Roberts whether the case should have gone to trial, Maddy said, "I don't think so."

"I felt like this was a publicity stunt. This whole court service thing to me was publicity," she said.

Yeah, she's not using murder in the legal sense but in the synonymous with "killing" way. Which is incorrect.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Also FWIW:

So I have to compliment this woman as in some ways the ultimate example of a juror who put aside her emotions and even what she obviously suspected (wrong or not) and ruled on the evidence.

Agreed. Pretty impressive.

 

[WildCat]

As would a person casually walking by...



And how do you tell the difference between a burglar and a slow, casual walker? I know one of those who walks through my neighborhood daily. Are you saying I should be calling the police on him as a potential burglar?

Come on, WildCat. Haven't you ever sat outside and people-watched? Barring joggers and bike-riders, you pretty much just described anyone.

Having worked for 30 years in some of the worst parts of town with lots of attractive tools to steal, I've become quite adept at spotting the thieves from the casual walkers. That's why it's been years since anyone succeeded in stealing any of my tools from the job site. Vigilance goes a long way.

If you can't tell the difference that's your handicap, not mine. A little bit of street smarts goes a long way.

 

[ABC10]

For what it's worth:

This is the same nonsense that went on with a juror in Jackson's molestation trial. In fact, she was going to call her book "Guilty as Sin, Free as a Bird". Nonsense. Sad to see her reveal herself on TV for all to see.

 

[Dan O.]

The problem is the evidence shows the fight started at the T (according to multiple witnesses and the car keys dropped at the T)

George himself says he was holding the Tacticle flashlight at the start of the altercation. Multiple witnesses place George at the location where his keys were found when the police first arrive. As I quoted above, Joe sees George toss something into the grass as the police approach. Joe thinks it was George's flashlight that George tossed. I believe it was the car keys.

If George tossed his cell phone into the grass when the police were approaching, where is that evidenced in the police report? Where are the photos of George's phone in tha grass?

If you take the opposite view, who picked up George's cell phone and hid this evidence from the police?

 

[Toontown]

"That's where I felt confused, where if a person kills someone, then you get charged for it," Maddy said. "But as the law was read to me, if you have no proof that he killed him intentionally, you can't say he's guilty."

When asked by Roberts whether the case should have gone to trial, Maddy said, "I don't think so."

"I felt like this was a publicity stunt. This whole court service thing to me was publicity," she said.

She's definitely confused.

1. An unintentional killing can be manslaughter.

2. An intentional killing can be self-defense.

GZ claimed self-defense.

I haven't yet seen any talking heads call her on this. Seems they're afraid to call anyone on anything.

Except B37. Some of them interpreted "they" and "their" as racial, when B37 was clearly referring to two specific individuals. The only other option was to call them by name. And I just heard a talking head say "them". Oh, the overt racism...

 

[triforcharity]

So where were the symptoms of the bleeding inside Zimmerman's head? And how can you explain him not showing any signs of this horrendous injury when he did the walkthrough the next day?

Ask the EXPERT. Dr. DiMaio. He's the one you'd wanna talk to. He is the EXPERT who testified to his distinct injuries. Why do you doubt his expert opinion?