Merged Paula Deen: Use the N word, get the axe

[marplots]

Yup.

One of my favourite Sci-Fi authors was James Patrick Hogan, among the best "hard sci-fi" authors in his day.

Some years ago, he came under suspicion of being a Holocaust denier through his support of, and association with, Ernst Zündel. He was also a supporter of Velikovsky's "catastrophism" theories (and if you read his "Giants" series, its not hard to understand why).

However, none of this affected his ability to write great sci-fi, and despite that fact that I believe Holocaust deniers to be at best deluded and at worst proponents of genocide, it certainly did stop me reading his works.

I have a similar example. I read L Ron Hubbard's Battlefield Earth a couple of times and enjoyed it. Didn't make the connection to that L Ron until later. It still doesn't bother me.

I have to say I'd be surprised if someone told me they eschewed Isaac Asimov's books because he was an atheist. Maybe it's just books, but the works stand alone from the authors for me.

 

[332nd]

Hrm. Is this a goalpost-move?

You asked when is it not a racial pejorative. I gave you an example. So have others. Was that question not the question you meant to ask?

Maybe you should clarify what you meant.

Clarify like I did a few post earlier?...

 

[Babbylonian]

Excellent point. For me, however, it would depend on the after. For example, if I was in that situation, and the jerk was arrested, I can't say I wouldn't call him something derogatory in the immediate hereafter. I have to figure I 'd be both shaken and pissed off...and feeling somewhat safer to give him a piece of my mind with the cops standing by. I don't think that would be indefensible, either. People in shock don't always react rationally...and there would certainly be nothing wrong with being both shaken and pissed off.

Oh, I can think of any number of derogatory things I'd say afterward, and not just immediately afterward...not one of them would involve the race of the criminal. Can you see what I'm getting at?

 

[desertgal]

Oh, I can think of any number of derogatory things I'd say afterward, and not just immediately afterward...not one of them would involve the race of the criminal. Can you see what I'm getting at?

Yes.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

I don't think the n-word is completely without peer, at least in function, just in the USA. The f-word for gays also widely banned, yet also used within a certain group of gays. There are similar words for trans, lesbian, women, to name a few more. Clearly there is something at work.

But I find it silly that people always ask why it is okay when "they" use the word. I believe it isn't, and there are people who agree with my viewpoint outside the sub-group in each group.

Anyway, on "white trash", I also believe it to be wrong (But they call themselves "red-necks" all the time!). Generally I don't believe anyone "deserves" or "asks for" an epithet. They can at best be emotionally expressive, but little else. Regarding to fashion-imparied boy, I knew plenty of white kids who dressed like that too. It was the popular thing with the kids. Why do we need separate terms based on race for them. Why is linking a negative behaviour to that person race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. necessary or helpful?

 

[theprestige]

Clarify like I did a few post earlier?...

I'm not sure. You mean this post?

And other people would've. Some even without the word being directed at them. Like it or not, the word carries that baggage with it.

Doesn't seem to clarify much to me. But it does seem to answer your own question: It's not a racial pejorative when people don't take it as a racial pejorative. Some people, in some contexts, are going to make it pretty clear they mean it to be taken as a racial pejorative. In that case, you'd have a hard time not taking it that way.

Other people, in other contexts, are going to insist on ignoring the context and taking it badly no matter how it was meant, even if they weren't the intended audience. That's their choice.

I'd say it's the people that carry the baggage, not the word.

Anyway, I think your question is pretty well answered. You asked for an example where it isn't used a racial pejorative. I gave you such an example. Then, for some reason, instead of politely acknowledging that I'd answered your question, you demanded that I admit that I avoid using it when I am concerned that people might take it the wrong way. Which, okay, I admit. But was that ever really in dispute?

And I don't see the relevance. It seems--and I could be wrong here; please feel free to explain it better if I've misunderstood your meaning--that you really meant to say that it's always a racial pejorative, that there are no contexts in which it is not, anybody who says otherwise is wrong, and that you will ask for examples of such but then ignore them because you have already determined they will be wrong.

That's how it seems to me. Am I mistaken, or is that really the baggage your words carry?

 

[332nd]

I'm not sure. You mean this post?

Yep.

Doesn't seem to clarify much to me.

K.

 

[theprestige]

Yep.





K.

Last edited by Redtail; Today at 04:20 AM.

Bummer. I wish I'd been here before the edit. I'm sure it was much more responsive and interesting.

 

[Piggy]

Exactly, her restaurants will be fine. But it's totally understandable why they fired her.

Oh, sure. I would have, too.

 

[Piggy]

Yes. Hence the question mark at the end of the sentence.


And other people would've. Some even without the word being directed at them. Like it or not, the word carries that baggage with it.

I'm sorry, but you can't simply project your own baggage onto the whole world.

When Q-Tip sang "Tommy Hil was my ****** and others couldn't figure, me and Hilfiger moving through with vigor" that obviously wasn't a slur or an insult, it was a compliment, especially considering he wore Tommy's clothes.

Hilfiger was astute enough to understand that.

Reality contradicts you. The word is used every single day in this country in a non-derogatory sense.

 

[Piggy]

I don't think the n-word is completely without peer, at least in function, just in the USA. The f-word for gays also widely banned, yet also used within a certain group of gays. There are similar words for trans, lesbian, women, to name a few more. Clearly there is something at work.

But I find it silly that people always ask why it is okay when "they" use the word. I believe it isn't, and there are people who agree with my viewpoint outside the sub-group in each group.

Anyway, on "white trash", I also believe it to be wrong (But they call themselves "red-necks" all the time!). Generally I don't believe anyone "deserves" or "asks for" an epithet. They can at best be emotionally expressive, but little else. Regarding to fashion-imparied boy, I knew plenty of white kids who dressed like that too. It was the popular thing with the kids. Why do we need separate terms based on race for them. Why is linking a negative behaviour to that person race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. necessary or helpful?

It wasn't that he was fashion impaired -- and he was a man, btw -- it was his behavior.

As for separate terms, well, I live in a place where there are separate cultures, and the language has just evolved that way.

My point was that neither term is always an empty epithet. Sometimes it means something.

And sometimes ordinarily derogatory terms can be used in non-derogatory ways. "Redneck" has certainly been embraced by many whites down here, but it's rare to hear "white trash" used that way.

Still...



From the hidden track at the end of that CD:

"To say 'You're- you're white trash, baby, just like me' is not a compliment. Calling somebody white trash is.. is… is a slur. It's definitely derogatory, it's definitely an insult. No-nobody is proud to be called white trash, nobody would admit to be proud that they're white trash. White trash is not something that somebody would aspire to be. Therefore I really don't think anybody's gonna get on major TV and a record label is allow- is gonna allow them to sing in front of 50 million people, or be on the radio, saying that 'baby, you're white trash just like me'. Uh, George Strait's not white trash, Travis Tritt is not white trash, uh, you name it, Clay Walker, none of 'em, nobody is white trash, they're not gonna call themselves white trash. So therefore I think this song is never gonna be cut, and will never be recorded on a, on a, on a record label, I just- I mean I really think that with all my heart and soul."

ETA: Full disclosure -- yes, I own a copy of the album.

 

[Scopedog]

Does this lyric constitute a derogatory or racist use of the n-word?

'F-wordin' Problems' by A$AP Rocky
Featuring: 2 Chainz, Drake, and Kendrick Lamar
Released: 24 October 2012
Chart: peaked at #8 on the Billboard Hot 100

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9-bEeLFPCQ

http://rapgenius.com/A-ap-rocky-****in-problems-lyrics
(replace the asterisks in the url with the f-word)

Cause I'm the n-word, the n-word n-word, like how you figure?
Getting figures and f-wordin' bitches, she rolling Swishers
Brought her b-words, I brought my n-words, they getting bent up off the liquor
She love my licorice, I let her lick it
They say money make a n-word act n-word-ish
But least a n-word n-word rich

 

[332nd]

Last edited by Redtail; Today at 04:20 AM.

Bummer. I wish I'd been here before the edit. I'm sure it was much more responsive and interesting.

You'll just have to play with yourself.

 

[FFed]

Oh no, she used the dreaded N word. Now all the drama queens have a reason to be outraged.

 

[332nd]

I'm sorry, but you can't simply project your own baggage onto the whole world.

We shouldn't, but we all do.

 

[332nd]

Does this lyric constitute a derogatory or racist use of the n-word?

'F-wordin' Problems' by A$AP Rocky
Featuring: 2 Chainz, Drake, and Kendrick Lamar
Released: 24 October 2012
Chart: peaked at #8 on the Billboard Hot 100

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9-bEeLFPCQ

http://rapgenius.com/A-ap-rocky-****in-problems-lyrics
(replace the asterisks in the url with the f-word)

Cause I'm the n-word, the n-word n-word, like how you figure?
Getting figures and f-wordin' bitches, she rolling Swishers
Brought her b-words, I brought my n-words, they getting bent up off the liquor
She love my licorice, I let her lick it
They say money make a n-word act n-word-ish
But least a n-word n-word rich

Depends on who you ask.

 

[Scopedog]

Depends on who you ask.

What does Redtail think? Can you ask Redtail for me? I'd like to know Redtail's opinion. Can I ask Redtail? Hey, Redtail, does the lyric constitute a derogatory or racist use of the n-word?

 

[332nd]

What does Redtail think? Can you ask Redtail for me? I'd like to know Redtail's opinion. Can I ask Redtail? Hey, Redtail, does the lyric constitute a derogatory or racist use of the n-word?

Meh, you'll just whine more.

No, it's just an outdated, stupid word to me.

 

[kedo1981]

I think they asked her an unfair question.
“Have you ever used the infamous racial epitaph?”
Sorry but just saying a word does not make you a racist
It’s the way you live your life that determines what you are
A legit question would be
Have you ever used a racial epitaph to humiliate, degrade, or intimidate?

PS: the food she cooks is disgusting

 

[Scopedog]

Meh, you'll just whine more.

No, it's just an outdated, stupid word to me.

A$AP Rocky used the outdated, stupid word 8 times out of 56 words which is 14.28571%. I think its better to continue giving the word less power rather than more.