What's your theory about 9/11?

Can we forget about this nonsensical sidetrack, and get back to the topic of the thread? Han's opinions can hardly be called a theory.
 
oops deleted, sorry.

So go on dafydd.

I clear the playground and fifm (fixed it for myself).
 
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Hans Peper said:
pic top left : the mirror axis top right : this is what your subconscious will see pic low : Dürer "Nose of a cattle"
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1. What evidence do you have that the human subconscious does or even can create mirror images?

2. What evidence do you have that individuals will mirror an image from the left side instead of the right, or top to bottom or any other type of inversion?

3. I notice you only show the bottom half of the painting in the mirrored photoshop. Why is that? If the painter intended to encode a mirrored image, wouldn't he have made the top of the painting meaningful as well. It looks to me like it would become nothing. Why are you only focusing on the parts of the painting that support your imagination?
 
Hans Peper said:
This is the painting (10ft high) from 1667 made by an artist called Jürgen Ovens, he studied in the netherlands in the 17th century.
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Okay, I can find nothing about the provenance of this painting. Jurgen Ovens was a well-respected portraitist who resided in Germany at the time. However, I cannot find this painting in any catalog of his works.

It is mentioned that he painted the altarpiece for the church Sankt-Christophorus-Kirche, Friedrichstadt. However, the painting Hans supplies is not that altarpiece. This is the Ovens painting in the church. The interior of the church is photographed extensively here. Hans' painting is not visible in those pictures. Ovens also painted The Blue Madonna for Schleswig Cathedral. That isn't Hans' painting, either.

In any case, you can see a sample of 22 of Ovens' works here. It stands to reason that if the man was fond of mirror imagery, it would show up in other paintings. To my eye, mirroring these paintings would not produce anything recognizable. Certainly, the portraits do not lend themselves to such tricks.

Absent further information, I am unable to determine whether the artist was prone to hide easter eggs in his works (although Ovens painted himself into crowds a couple of times).
 
Loss Leader said:
Okay, I can find nothing about the provenance of this painting. Jurgen Ovens was a well-respected portraitist who resided in Germany at the time. However, I cannot find this painting in any catalog of his works.

It is mentioned that he painted the altarpiece for the church Sankt-Christophorus-Kirche, Friedrichstadt. However, the painting Hans supplies is not that altarpiece. This is the Ovens painting in the church. The interior of the church is photographed extensively here. Hans' painting is not visible in those pictures. Ovens also painted The Blue Madonna for Schleswig Cathedral. That isn't Hans' painting, either.

In any case, you can see a sample of 22 of Ovens' works here. It stands to reason that if the man was fond of mirror imagery, it would show up in other paintings. To my eye, mirroring these paintings would not produce anything recognizable. Certainly, the portraits do not lend themselves to such tricks.

Absent further information, I am unable to determine whether the artist was prone to hide easter eggs in his works (although Ovens painted himself into crowds a couple of times).
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Where's Waldo ripped him off? :D
 
Hans Peper said:
I saw, that Kubrick used elements and "tricks" in his movie, which the builders and the painters also have used.These painters and builders are normaly in my interest.
Kubrick used these rules and developed them until he could use them in his movies.

So I use the same routines to find his intention. (iconologic analysis).
I think his hints are adressed to other directors.

BTW : Can you understand my "Krautenglish" easy.

Regards Hans
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Artists in visual media use similar techniques? OK that does it 911 was an inside jerb.
 
Hans Peper said:
It is in Schleswig Cathedral, chorus northern sideship.
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Thanks. Now would you please answer my questions:


1. What evidence do you have that the human subconscious does or even can create mirror images?
2. What evidence do you have that individuals will mirror an image from the left side instead of the right, or top to bottom or any other type of inversion?
3. I notice you only show the bottom half of the painting in the mirrored photoshop. Why is that? If the painter intended to encode a mirrored image, wouldn't he have made the top of the painting meaningful as well. It looks to me like it would become nothing. Why are you only focusing on the parts of the painting that support your imagination?
Click to expand...
 
Loss Leader said:
Okay, I can find nothing about the provenance of this painting.
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I can. archive.org has a full historical book about Ovens, preamble 1922 (third hit if you google with Ümlaute from Germany). According to this, the painting is titled "Sieg des Christentums über die Sünde" (Victory of Christianity over the Sin) and from 1664, not 1667 like Hans said. It even contains a picture description (page 178 of the PDF or search the text version):

138. * Sieg des Christentums über die Sünde.

Ein Engel im Trauergewande schwebt auf einer
dunklen Wolke, die Nägel des Kreuzes in der
rechten Hand und das Kreuz selbst im linken
Arme haltend. In der Mitte des Kreuzes ist das
Auge der Vorsehung abgebildet und über dem
Kreuze flattert die rote Siegesfahne mit dem Bilde
von der Auferstehung des Erlösers. Rechts von
diesem Engel halten zwei in Schmerz versunkene
andere Engel ein aufgerolltes Blatt, auf welchem
der Sündenfall der ersten Menschen in grauer
Farbe dargestellt ist. Links hält ein dritter Engel
ein Bild empor, auf welchem man die Geburt
des Heilandes sieht. Neben diesem Engel hebt
noch ein anderer Palmen und Lorbeerzweige in
die Höhe, während eine Schlange der Hölle voller
Verzweiflung über den Anblick des gnadenreichen
Bildes sich in Gluten wälzt. Aus der düster
gähnenden Tiefe der höllischen Mächte züngeln
grelle Flammen empor. Zwischen dem Engel,
der das Kreuz, und dem, der die Palmen trägt,
deutet ein nur zur Hälfte sichtbarer Engel freudig
auf die Schlange hin und "senkt seine Augen ab-
wärts, als ob er den niederschwebenden himm-
lischen Gestalten und der Welt den Sieg ver-
künden wollte. Oben in der reinen Himmels-
luft singen himmlische Heerscharen Loblieder und
blasen auf Pbsaunen, von der heiligen Cäcilia
an der Orgel begleitet, die aus Gewölk und Engels-
chören hervortaucht.

Bezeichnet: I. Ovens 1664.
Auf Leinen; h. 2,51 m; br. 1,63 m.
Dom zu Schleswig.
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The two grieving angels on the middle left (to the central angel's right) are holding a picture of man's fall into sin, the angels on the middle right are holding a picture of Jesus' birth. The latter are mocking the snake creature in hell bottom right. In the upper part on the right you see the holy Cäcilia on her heavenly organ praising what is happening. The red flag stands for victory and shows a picture of Jesus' resurrection. That's what the description says.

When you mirror it like Hans did, the snake is gone, but also Jesus' birth and resurrection, the angels mocking the snake, the heavenly choirs and the victory flag. What's left is a doubled fall into sin with four grieving angels, the heavenly children without protection and the big horned beast rising. :eek:

Oh, and the central figure has its right hand doubled, which holds nails, and looks like beheaded and/or impaled.
 
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Loss Leader said:
Thanks. Now would you please answer my questions:
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1.) It was found by the sience in the last century. It called "Gesichterkennung" in German. It's a separate section in the brain. (face perception)
2.) A face could only be mirrowed in vertical axis. If you mirrow right to left, you get no face. The guy pointed it out " turn left to right ".

3.) I took only a detail, to get a bigger picture in the posting. If you want, you can get the whole picture mirrowed.

and the date was 1664, I failed, because I took it from my head as I wrote 1667 in the posting. This story happend in 2003. It was 10 years ago.
 
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Hans Peper said:
1.) It was found by the sience in the last century. It called "Gesichterkennung" in German. It's a separate section in the brain.

2.) A face could only be mirrowed in vertical axis. If you mirrow right to left, you get no face. The guy pointed it out " turn left to right ".

3.) I took only a detail, to get a bigger picture in the posting. If you want, you can get the whole picture mirrowed.

and the date was 1667, I failed, because I took it from my head as I wrote 1664 in the posting. This story happend in 2003. It was 10 years ago.
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1. Source? And more detail please.

2. But there is no face in the first place. It only becomes one if you mirror it vertically and then you really have to look. All it becomes is this devil-ish figure. Now if our brains are supposed to find faces, which is true and proven, then that applies to human faces. Not devils and certainly not a "nose of a cattle."
 
Excuse me

dafydd said:
Can we forget about this nonsensical sidetrack, and get back to the topic of the thread? Han's opinions can hardly be called a theory.
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dafydd,

I just found out, that I made a mistake.

I thought, that your old avatar is a pic of Stan Laurel. I have an IBM thinkpad with VGA screen. The avatars are quite little.

I must excuse myself. I failed . I do not want to hurt you.

Hans Peper
 
Greedo said:
1. Source? And more detail please.

2. But there is no face in the first place. It only becomes one if you mirror it vertically and then you really have to look. All it becomes is this devil-ish figure. Now if our brains are supposed to find faces, which is true and proven, then that applies to human faces. Not devils and certainly not a "nose of a cattle."
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It is called face perception, google it.

Albrecht Dürer pointed it out, that this system also works by cattle faces, because the brain detect that nose to recognise the animal.
A angered cattle in the bush, ready to mix you up, is also an enimie which should be detected of the perception system as quick as possible.

Now you must say :"How could Dürer know that 500 years befor it is discovered by modern science ? This could not be !"

I am sure that some of you can not get that horny guy out of their head, isn't it ? It is a the work of Jürgen. Some people say, that he was educated by Rembrand.
 
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