Looking for Skeptics
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Pup
Philosopher
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IXP made a suggestion that wouldn't insult the spirits' intelligence.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9280503&postcount=825
IXP said:
While that wouldn't be evidence that the voices are necessarily supernatural, it would be evidence that some very intelligent person/entity was behind the voices, and would certainly move things forward, as far as getting people to believe something more than simple pariedola was going on.
Stray Cat
Philosopher
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I imagine that I am flying through the air, high above the fluffy clouds while unicorns fart out rainbows in the late afternoon warm sunlight.
Sadly we're not here to test what we can imagine, we're here to test what is objectively provable.
IXP
Graduate Poster
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I have used my psychic ability to access the daughter's actual words:
"Aw, mom, knock if off, I'm getting sick of this ************".
IXP
Only the relevant parts.
IXP
Graduate Poster
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Read it again, "my psychic ability". Mine, IXP's psychic ability, not yours, or the spirits.
IXP
p.s. It's a joke.
p.p.s. Above is a correct use of the apostrophe.
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Maurice Ledifficile
Lost in translation
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Sunlight? In England? Evidence please...
ETA: Missed the "above the clouds" bit. Request for evidence withdrawn.
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Maurice Ledifficile
Lost in translation
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Hokulele
Deleterious Slab of Damnation
I made a suggestion earlier. Tell the spirits to respond to a question using a language other than English. Make sure they tell you the name of the language they are using, have Alderbank ask any (respectful) question that comes to his mind, and then write down the answer phonetically. Your daughter and he can listen as well, and tell you whether or not they agree or disagree with the phonetic representation of what is said. We can then find someone who speaks that language read your answer, and tell us if it is in fact a reasonable answer to the question posed.
This is very far from an iron-clad test protocol, as I cannot know what language(s) you speak, or are at least familiar with. However, if they can do this in a very large number of languages, I would find it far more compelling in terms of meriting further inquiry than any informal chat session.
No it is an inconvenience.
I don't mind. I can prove the claims in live time. It will be an easier way to have it exposed. Why don't you do that?
Ladewig
I lost an avatar bet.
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DISCLAIMER: the following is my opinion only. I do not represent the JREF message board in any way. My opinion carries no more weight than that of any other poster's.
If visiting this board makes you feel sick, then perhaps this board is not the right place for you to look for people to convince. I am EXCEPTIONALLY certain that feelings of sickness will be the result of every test that will be proposed by JREF message board posters. Skeptics have a very specific way of approaching claims of spirit voices. You also have a very specific way of approaching claims of spirit voices. These two approaches will never have any overlap. Never.
I am not trying to convince you that there are no voices. I merely trying to convince you that the type of communication you seek with skeptics is never going to happen.
Nice thought. Being selfish I would love this to be just mine.
The board does not make me feel sick. The board has no protocol to test a spirit's presence. I am not trying to convince, reality should do that for itself.
I really did not join here to be tested via internet, although I have more than cooperated.
The spirit of my Father is speaking to 3 member's of the family, in full recognisable tone, without being recorded. If I am claiming this, there ought to be a protocol written up for such a claim to be proven. I cannot retract a claim that I know to be true.
Maurice Ledifficile
Lost in translation
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I would like to interrupt this thread to plagiarize the following disclaimer, which hereby applies to all the posts I ever made and ever will make.
DISCLAIMER: The following is my opinion only. I do not represent the JREF message board in any way. My opinion carries no more weight than [that of]* any other poster's.
Worthy of plagiarism, in part for its proper use of an apostrophe.
ETA: *I predict I will be corrected in a future post. ☻☺☻
DISCLAIMER: The following is my opinion only. I do not represent the JREF message board in any way. My opinion carries no more weight than [that of]* any other poster's.
Worthy of plagiarism, in part for its proper use of an apostrophe.
ETA: *I predict I will be corrected in a future post. ☻☺☻
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Maurice Ledifficile
Lost in translation
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Yes. You ask your father mundane questions. But someone records the whole thing with a different device, independent of the playback rig. Then you have independent participants listen to the recording from the second device. Participants should independently hear the exact same answer. Recorded. For all to hear. Outside of your own head.
ETA: Or you could ask your father to take a backseat and let the other 999 spirits do the dirty work.
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Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader, TLA Dictator
Flaccon,
Let's start again.
Do you understand that the "protocol" is not "our" protocol as in "the protocol handed down by the JREF Forumites"? Is is, howver, "our" protocol as in "the JREF Forumites AND flaccon agree that this protocol is acceptable".
You should state, clearly and with as many misplaced apostrophe's as you desire, just what it is you or your spirits wish to show us. It cannot be "peace on Earth" or "the meaning of life".
You have repeatedly say that they wish to speak to us (e.g., I guess, "the world", or at least the Christian world, apparently) and have something to say. You have also indicated that they will respond to questions, so much so that it's hard to discern individual answers in the babble because they're all responding at once. Is this accurate?
Therefore we need a "flaccon's claim" statement. Something like:
"There are spirits inhabiting my computer. If I ask them a question they will respond in readily discernible speech - readily discernible to anyone."
If that is the statement, then we simply need to devise a way to present question - not decks of card - in a fashion that we are reasonably certain you would have no way of pre-ordaining the answer.
This goes back to some of the simpler questions mentioned earlier. I'm not really anonymous. A little bit of work and one can find my name. Others here are. If the spirits are in your computer and can read the messages here, perhaps they could reveal the full names of a couple of truly anonymous members, who would be willing to step forward and proffer themselves for that purpose.
If YOU don't agree or the spirits don't agree - e.g. they can't read posts, then we need to find other questions. Nothing tricky or obscenely obscure like "In 1602 a shepherd in Banbury discoverd a better way of sheering sheep, what was his mother's maiden name?" But things that are easily checked into and that all-knowing spirits should be able to find the answers to, AND that you would likely not know.
In order to come up with such questions, though we need a better understanding, as I mentioned before, of just what properties these spirits have. Are the omniscient world-wise spirits? Or are they local Chester spirits from your private panoply and only know things local to the area? That makes it much harder, of course, for us to devise questions, but I'd imagine something can be worked out.
We also cannot use any question that you, the claimant, could obviously see the answer for, as the test assumes to prevent the claimant from providing the answers. e.g., "What color shirt is our visitor, Alderbank, wearing?" (Although something like that might be workable if you ask the question, but don't see/hear the answer.... that is, if you're certain that they will respond in distinct clear voices and answers.)
Again,.... the protocol is to be designed to be acceptable to the claimant (you and/or your spirits) that this is something they can readily achieve. Please stop answering before you check with your spirits and your volunteers.
Stop telling us what they won't do. Stop telling us what you're sure they can do. Start telling us what they will do.
Let's start again.
Do you understand that the "protocol" is not "our" protocol as in "the protocol handed down by the JREF Forumites"? Is is, howver, "our" protocol as in "the JREF Forumites AND flaccon agree that this protocol is acceptable".
You should state, clearly and with as many misplaced apostrophe's as you desire, just what it is you or your spirits wish to show us. It cannot be "peace on Earth" or "the meaning of life".
You have repeatedly say that they wish to speak to us (e.g., I guess, "the world", or at least the Christian world, apparently) and have something to say. You have also indicated that they will respond to questions, so much so that it's hard to discern individual answers in the babble because they're all responding at once. Is this accurate?
Therefore we need a "flaccon's claim" statement. Something like:
"There are spirits inhabiting my computer. If I ask them a question they will respond in readily discernible speech - readily discernible to anyone."
If that is the statement, then we simply need to devise a way to present question - not decks of card - in a fashion that we are reasonably certain you would have no way of pre-ordaining the answer.
This goes back to some of the simpler questions mentioned earlier. I'm not really anonymous. A little bit of work and one can find my name. Others here are. If the spirits are in your computer and can read the messages here, perhaps they could reveal the full names of a couple of truly anonymous members, who would be willing to step forward and proffer themselves for that purpose.
If YOU don't agree or the spirits don't agree - e.g. they can't read posts, then we need to find other questions. Nothing tricky or obscenely obscure like "In 1602 a shepherd in Banbury discoverd a better way of sheering sheep, what was his mother's maiden name?" But things that are easily checked into and that all-knowing spirits should be able to find the answers to, AND that you would likely not know.
In order to come up with such questions, though we need a better understanding, as I mentioned before, of just what properties these spirits have. Are the omniscient world-wise spirits? Or are they local Chester spirits from your private panoply and only know things local to the area? That makes it much harder, of course, for us to devise questions, but I'd imagine something can be worked out.
We also cannot use any question that you, the claimant, could obviously see the answer for, as the test assumes to prevent the claimant from providing the answers. e.g., "What color shirt is our visitor, Alderbank, wearing?" (Although something like that might be workable if you ask the question, but don't see/hear the answer.... that is, if you're certain that they will respond in distinct clear voices and answers.)
Again,.... the protocol is to be designed to be acceptable to the claimant (you and/or your spirits) that this is something they can readily achieve. Please stop answering before you check with your spirits and your volunteers.
Stop telling us what they won't do. Stop telling us what you're sure they can do. Start telling us what they will do.
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