• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

The "Hindenburg Omen" now statistically confirmed, and we just had another one.

Muldur

Master Poster
Joined
Aug 23, 2010
Messages
2,232
The "Hindenburg Omen" now statistically confirmed, and we just had another one.

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/this-stock-market-omen-has-been-confirmed.html/?a=viewall

Relevant portion from a much longer article:

The traditional definition of a Hindenburg Omen was that the daily number of NYSE New 52 Week Highs and the Daily number of New 52 Week Lows must both be so high as to have the lesser of the two be greater than 2.2 percent of total NYSE issues traded that day.

However, this is just condition number one. The traditional definition had two more filters: That the NYSE 10 Week Moving Average is also Rising, which we consider met if it is higher than the level at any time during the previous 10 weeks (condition # 2), and that the McClellan Oscillator is negative on that same day (condition # 3). We calculate these measures each evening at www.technicalindicatorindex.com using The Wall Street Journal figures for consistency. We consider The Wall Street Journal’s data as “official.”

Critics have taken this Hindenburg Omen definition and pointed rightly to several failed Omens. In other words, with just these three filters defining a Hindenburg Omen, there were too many false positives to render the indicator useful. We conducted research, convinced that this indicator had strong potential to predict periods of extreme stock market declines, and came up with two more filters that vastly improved the predictive value of this indicator.

Our proprietary research discovered that if we add two more filters,
then the correlation of this Hindenburg Omen condition to subsequent severe stock market declines becomes quite remarkable. We added condition # 4, which requires that New 52 Week NYSE Highs cannot be more than twice New 52 Week Lows; however it is okay for New 52 Week Lows to be more than double New 52 Week Highs. Our research found that there were two incidences where the first three conditions existed, but New Highs were more than double New Lows, and no market decline resulted.There were no instances noted where if 52 Week Highs were more than double New Lows, while the first three conditions were met, that a severe decline followed. So condition # 4 becomes a critical defining component. We also added condition # 5: The fifth condition we found important for high correlation is that for a confirmed Hindenburg Omen, in other words for it to be “official,” there must be more than one signal within a 36 day period, i.e., there must be a cluster of Hindenburg Omens (defined as two or more) to substantially increase the probability of a coming stock market plunge.
Our research noted ten instances over the past 29 years — using the first four conditions — where there was just one isolated Hindenburg Omen signal over a thirty-six day period. In nine of the ten instances, no sharp declines followed. In only one instance did a sharp subsequent sell-off occur based upon a non-cluster single Omen, but in that case it was incredibly close to having a cluster of two Omens as the previous day’s McClellan Oscillator just missed being negative by a few points. We included this instance in our data that follows.

So to recap, we have an unconfirmed Hindenburg Omen if the first four conditions are met, but the fifth is not — in other words we only have one signal within a 36 day period. Once a second or more Omen observation occurs, we then have a confirmed and official Hindenburg Omen signal with substantially higher odds that a subsequent stock market plunge is coming. Our research noted that plunges can occur as soon as the next day, or as far into the future as four months. In either case, the warning is useful.

...

If we define a crash as a 15-percent decline, of the previous 31 confirmed Hindenburg Omen signals, eight (25.8 percent ) were followed by financial system threatening, life-as-we-know-it threatening stock market crashes. Three (9.8 percent) more were followed by stock market selling panics (10 percent to 14.9 percent declines).

Four more (12.9 percent) resulted in sharp declines (8 percent to 9.9 percent drops). Six (19.3 percent) were followed by meaningful declines (5 percent to 7.9 percent), six (19.3 percent) saw mild declines (2.0 percent to 4.9 percent), and four (12.9 percent) were failures, with subsequent declines of 2.0 percent or less. Put another way, there is a 25.8 percent probability that a stock market crash — the big one — will occur after we get a confirmed (more than one in a cluster) Hindenburg Omen.

There is a 35.6 percent probability that at least a panic sell-off will occur (a decline greater than 10 percent). There is a 48.5 percent probability that a sharp decline greater than 8.0 percent will occur, and there is a 67.8 percent probability that a stock market decline of at least 5 percent will occur. Only one out of roughly 8 times will this signal fail. All the biggies over the past 29 years with the exception of the July/August 2011 decline were preceded and identified by this signal (as defined with our five conditions). It was on the clock just before the stock market crash of the autumn of 2008.

Hold on to your "assets" folks...it's about to get bumpy...
 
The research is very complete and impressive. Predictive models are often tweaked and improved over time, which results in increased accuracy.

Would either of you two hyenas care to actually address the FACTS, rather than your usual brand of snark?
 
Last edited:
What Scrut said.
:dl:

Would you like to make a concrete prediction on the direction of the stock market in the coming days or weeks or months Mulder based on this?

"Bumpy" is not a useful prediction. Will it be "bumpy" in an up way or "bumpy" in a down way and over what time period?
 
This omen has appeared before all of the stock market crashes, or panic events, of the past 29 years except one, except the mini-crash of July/August 2011. Except for that one crash, no stock market crash (a decline greater than 15 percent) occurred over the past 29 years without the presence of a Hindenburg Omen. Another way of looking at it is, without an official confirmed Hindenburg Omen, we are pretty safe. On the other hand, if we have an official Hindenburg Omen, then a critical set of market conditions necessary for a stock market crash exists.
The non laughing dog name for this type of argument is "non-sequitur".

We would have to know how many "Hindenburg Omens" (whatever they are) were followed by a stock market crash before we could begin to establish if a causal link exists.
 
This reminds me of an XKCD strip:

http://xkcd.com/1122

Predictive formulae are only useful if they work forwards, i.e. if you can predict what happens, not if you alter them after they have failed to do so so that they <i>would</i> have predicted the future.

In other words if in the linked strip someone had said "No nominee whose first name contains a K will ever loose" in <b>1804</b>, that would be a meaningful (if trivial) prediction. My saying it now is just pareidolia. Well, it would be if I ascribed a meaning to it, rather than just noting it as a coincidence.
 
Last edited:
@ Puppycow:

100% chance of a significant negative event within the next 4 months (give or take a week)

67.8 percent probability that a stock market decline of at least 5 percent will occur.

48.5 percent probability that a sharp decline greater than 8.0 percent will occur

35.6 percent probability that at least a panic sell-off will occur (a decline greater than 10 percent)

25.8 percent probability of a financial system-threatening, "life-as-we-know-it-threatening" crash

(Note that the probabilities specified cumulatively add up to over 100% due to category overlap)
 
Last edited:
@ Puppycow:

100% chance of a significant negative event within the next 4 months (give or take a week)

67.8 percent probability that a stock market decline of at least 5 percent will occur.

48.5 percent probability that a sharp decline greater than 8.0 percent will occur

35.6 percent probability that at least a panic sell-off will occur (a decline greater than 10 percent)

25.8 percent probability of a financial system-threatening, "life-as-we-know-it-threatening" crash

(Note that the probabilities specified cumulatively add up to over 100% due to category overlap)

And what will you say when none of this happens? I guess we can always add another "filter".
 
The non laughing dog name for this type of argument is "non-sequitur".

We would have to know how many "Hindenburg Omens" (whatever they are) were followed by a stock market crash before we could begin to establish if a causal link exists.

As to exactly what they are, the definition of the Omen is included in the article.

Generally, it is a specific, very rare confluence of certain market indicators in close proximity to each other in time.

As for the likelihood, per the article:

31 of the last 31 "clusters" (100%) [recent trend indicator]

Historically:

87.5% of an event

12.5% chance no event
 
And what will you say when none of this happens? I guess we can always add another "filter".

What part of "models are refined over time, increasing their accuracy" do you not understand? Or more accurately, are refusing to understand.

This is basic statistical science.
 
What part of "models are refined over time, increasing their accuracy" do you not understand? Or more accurately, are refusing to understand.

This is basic statistical science.

Just as a I said - when this "Omen" fails, we'll add some more "filters", so next time it will work!!! (And when that fails, we'll add even more filters!)
 
Just as a I said - when this "Omen" fails, we'll add some more "filters", so next time it will work!!! (And when that fails, we'll add even more filters!)

Seeing as how it has in fact NOT failed (31 for 31 of recent events) your argument is nonsense.
 
Or as other people might call it, "normal ups and downs".

And of course you completely ignore that that is a MINIMUM value, and that there is a high probability (67%) of a 5% or greater drop and lesser but still significant probabilities of even steeper losses.
 

Back
Top Bottom