Jim Fetzer & Conspiracies

[JayUtah]

That is all you have to say - "Nope"? You provide no evidence for your point, except for a 1 shot case that you are the sole evaluator of. Please provide a link so others can evaluate how the discussion went. Based on your lack of providing evidence, now I don't trust your evaluation. There is no evidence that Dr. Fetzer still considers that the Moon landing was a hoax, even if he once considered it. When did he say he believes he is "God's gift"? That is your evaluation. You seem to be the one making carefully-chosen straw man arguments. What does "hiding behind a PhD" mean? When did you survey his students? Were you a student of his? Where is the teacher evaluation data you make your conclusions on? Or is it just b.s. out of thin air? Philosophy of science, the study of the pursuit of wisdom using the scientific methos is of "little practical application in the real world"? Maybe in your world.

I doubt whether this fanboy straw-man rant merits much of a response, but there are a few things that bear mention.

First, I'm not just some anonymous internet nickname. I'm the guy considered to be one of the world authorities on Apollo and the associated conspiracy theories. I'm known by my real name in most circles. I'm the guy that gets a phone call when people like Mythbusters, National Geographic, the New York Times, Channel 4 (UK), Discovery Channel, and History Channel (before it went all woo) need to know about these conspiracy theories and science's response to them. I'm all over in print and on television. Since I've enjoyed that reputation for well over 10 years, yeah I'm qualified to evaluate hoax claims and claimants.

You, on the other hand, offer no reason to accept your praise of Fetzer other than apparently having listened to his radio show and believed his publicity. Have you had any personal interaction with Fetzer? Have you personally attempted to challenge any of his beliefs to his face? If not, then why is your evaluation more reliable than mine?

And yes, since I've had direct correspondence and discussion with Fetzer, I'm qualified to evaluate that. You're definitely not qualified to talk about what interactions I've had with him. It's cute you think my discussion must be something you can link to. I believe Fetzer prattled on about it on Education Forum a while back, but I don't read that forum and couldn't tell you whether his foaming over me included his rejection of me on the dubious grounds of allegedly insufficient expertise.

Whether Fetzer has changed his mind is irrelevant. As late as December 2010 he was still preaching hoaxed Moon landings, but since he was basically just ignorantly endorsing Jack White on the subject I don't know if his subsequent belief changed after his falling out with White. It remains irrelevant because at the time he was challenging it, he was also dismissing his critics. If he has recanted, it is not likely to be because his critics made such an impression on him.

Fetzer is well known for bullying his critics in his writings, even when those critics have far more, better, and more applicable qualifications and expertise than he. "Hiding behind the PhD" refers to that approach. More often than not his response to a critic begins with, ends with, and consists largely of accusing his critic of being underinformed, undereducated, and of failing to appreciate Fetzer's allegedly unique and authoritative position. That bluster typically hides Fetzer's lack of appropriate domain knowledge and his reliance on home-grown techniques and beliefs in contrast to proven methods.

What his students think of him is irrelevant.

My world is the real world of science and engineering. It is populated and operated by people who have appropriate domain knowledge and years of practical experience. These are the skilled, well-educated people who actually build things and operate them, and by such means observe how the world actually works. These are the people who actually solve problems. They rely upon the proper exercise of the scientific method, and knowledge of the specific findings derived thereby in their domains of understanding. They are as adept with those methods as is Fetzer -- perhaps more so since they actually use those methods as useful tools and are accountable in a tangible sense for their success at doing so.

Abstract knowledge of methodology, such as what Fetzer demonstrates, does not immediately convey an expert understanding of all the specific principles that methodology may be used to discover. The ability to correctly describe a chisel does not by itself endow one with the practiced skill of an expert mason nor an encylopedic knowledge of world sculpture. Yet this is how Fetzer approaches his work. Because he could once speak knowledgeably about how some things are discovered, he thinks he can speak authoritatively about what those discoveries actually are. He has sadly proven that he cannot.

Fetzer's forays into criminal investigation, forensic engineering, and aerospace require far more specialized expertise than simply sitting in his university office pondering the principles of critical thinking. They require specific knowledge and skills he simply doesn't have. And unlike most conscientious researchers, when he is corrected by people who have the appropriate domain knowledge, he either flees from it or blusters his way around it.

 

[Scott Sommers]

There is no evidence that Dr. Fetzer still considers that the Moon landing was a hoax

Who cares? Anyone who even considered a possibility for a few seconds is a retard. So may Fetzer's not a retard anymore. Maybe he grew some more bran cells or got a transplant.

Dr. Jimmy talks about photo fake Jack White
http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.tw/2012/10/911-illusions-special-effects-and-other.html#comment-form

I don't have the stomach to look through it all, but if you want to see what Dr. Jimmy says about the Holocaust, here it is
http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.tw/search?q=holocaust

He's just an idiot. If you think that having a PhD immunizes you against being a stupid idiot, guess again. What did you think was going to happen when you posted here about your opinion? You'd put those JREF debunkers in their place? You show a side of Jimmy that no one here knows about? Get a grip on life. Jimmy has no respect among his colleagues and peers because he doesn't deserve it.

 

[Lenbrazil]

There is no evidence that Dr. Fetzer still considers that the Moon landing was a hoax, even if he once considered it.

"Here are links to some of the studies that have convinced me we really did not go to the moon"

December 28, 2010 - http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17159&view=findpost&p=216186



Got any evidence he's changed his mind since then? The top left corner of his site is still full of Apollohoax links.

http://www.assassinationscience.com/

When did he say he believes he is "God's gift"?

Jay wrote (emphasis added for those who need it) "Fetzer writes and speaks as if he believes he's God's gift to scholarship". He constantly blows his own horn about his academic accomplishments and 'contributions' to research concerning the JFK assassination, 9/11 and other topics

What does "hiding behind a PhD" mean?

He uses it to get gullible people, like you, to buy into his crap. PhDs normally don't use their title when discussing topics outside their areas of expertise.

When did you survey his students? Were you a student of his? Where is the teacher evaluation data you make your conclusions on?

Go to Rate My Professor and similar sites

 

[JayUtah]

The top left corner of his site is still full of Apollohoax links.

http://www.assassinationscience.com/

To be fair, some of them are dead links. One could argue he just hasn't tended his garden lately.

To preface my statement here, I wanted to recount something from my introduction to Fetzer's work. It had to do with JFK, which is where I believe his first true conspiracy-theory love lies. Some professional had just debunked one of his claims and Fetzer's response began predictably by calling this professional "unqualified" and taking him to task for not having done a proper "literature search."

Now understand that in academic terminology, any serious research begins with a survey of all the peer-reviewed, serious scholarship (and selected popular works, if applicable) undertaken on the subject. That's what Fetzer is referring to. But since none of that particular topic is covered in the scientific or historical literature, I couldn't figure out what he meant. It took me a long time reading the context to discover that what Fetzer meant by "literature search" was, misleadingly enough, that the critic hadn't bothered to read the stack of popular conspiracy theory books. Fetzer was co-opting academic language to basically advocate conspiracy theory nonsense as if it had run the same gauntlet as legitimate scholarship.

This is part of what I mean by hiding behind a PhD -- he simply staples his diploma to whatever nonsense he wants to believe, and believes further that by doing so it receives some sort of imprimatur. Looking at the links referred to above, here are the people and topics Fetzer blesses with his reflected doctoral, professorial glory:

New Work on Moon Photographs. This is Jack White's inept attempt to find fault with the Apollo photographs. It's not surprising, considering White fueled most of Fetzer's JFK work. I've debunked White's Apollo travesty for more than 10 years running up to White's death, so I won't go into details now. But White has no relevant academic credentials and his only photographic interpretation qualification is in conspiracy theories.

Russians Letting the Cat out of the Bag. It just links to a Pravda article, which in turn quotes Ralph Rene and Bill Kaysing. On the level of the article's purport, it doesn't reveal anything -- it just reports what others have allegedly concluded. No intelligence coup from the Russians, no insider knowledge. Just straightforwardly ignorant parroting of existing popular sources. On the level of the article's import, why is a PhD in philosophy quoting a tabloid?

Moon Movie and Top Ten Reasons. These links are dead, but once referred to Bart Sibrel's site. You may remember him as Buzz Aldrin's punching bag. While Sibrel likes to style himself as an expert filmmaker and an investigative journalist, the only films he makes are Apollo hoax videos and his claim to journalist credentials was repudiated by his former boss. He has no relevant academic credentials or professional experience.

Did Stanley Kubrick Fake the Moon Landings. The theory propounded by perennial conspiracy theorist and all around woo-woo Jay Weidner. Weidner likes to style himself as a Kubrick scholar, but according to Kubrick's long-time assistant Anthony Frewin, Weidner's theories on Kubrick's alleged involvement in faking Apollo footage have no basis in anything Kubrick actually did or said. What I find most interesting about Weidner is that while he plagiarized the original artwork I created for my web site, he failed to address the refutation of his claims that appeared on the pages from which he stole the artwork. Again, why is a PhD and someone who wants to be seen as a noted scholar quoting from New Age mystics and wannabe Kubrickites?

Conspiracy Theory Did We Land on the Moon. This is a video link to the one-hour program infamously broadcast on Fox in the early 2000s, and was essentially an unopposed advertisement for Bart Sibrel and Bill Kaysing. Would that be considered appropriate source material in professional academic scholarship?

NASA Erased Moon Footage. This is the only piece of legitimate reporting in Fetzer's list.

Metapedia Entry on 'Moon Hoax'. Many JREF readers are doubtless familiar with WikiSpooks (nee Metapedia). It's the encyclopedia for people who can't get their rants past Wikipedia editors. It's basically a rehash of all the conspiracy theories to date, with only token critical analysis. At least it names me as an "Apollo defender," but it spells my screen name wrong. Most high school students are chastised for using Wikipedia. Why is a serious PhD using its more maverick cousin?

Wagging the Moon Doggie. This is David McGowan's verbose (often vulgar) argument from incredulity. McGowan and Fetzer are birds of a feather, in the sense that they rely significantly on bluff and bluster rather than fact and logic. McGowan, according to his own testimony, is a brilliant expert on everything. Yet he can't figure out how the Moon landings were accomplished. Therefore they have to be fake. His short tenure defending his claims at the Cosmoquest forum was memorable. So Fetzer adds "talk show host" to his list of esteemed authors.

Again, Fetzer simply waves his PhD and professorship to endorse what would otherwise be considered blatantly non-credible sources in the academic or professional world. He has done little if any original scholarship on the subject, and he is patently unqualified to talk about the science and engineering that went into Apollo. He can't even find any legitimate academic or professional peers to cite in his "literature search," so he cites tabloids, talk shows, crank sites, and self-proclaimed "journalists." This is the pseudo-intellectual, pseudo-academic nonsense that Fetzer is eminently guilty of.

He uses it to get gullible people, like you, to buy into his crap. PhDs normally don't use their title when discussing topics outside their areas of expertise.

That's the rub. Fetzer considers "philosophy of science" to encompass all areas of expertise. There are certain fields of study we call "foundation" subjects because many specialized areas of expertise rely on them. "Philosophy of science" indeed discusses the scientific method in the context of philosophy. Anything that calls itself a proper science uses the scientific method in one form or another and thus rests upon a foundation of scientific philosophy.

Fetzer, however, seems to believe that teaching a foundation subject means that everything based on it is also within his expertise, regardless of what specialization is required. The philosophy of engineering, for example, discusses such things as ethics, the nature of engineering as a mental pursuit, the role of engineering in a mindful society, and so forth. It doesn't cover how to properly attenuate radiation or compute a drag coefficient. Philosophy of physics covers why we must sometimes reason statistically about the physical world, the nature of testability, the duality of our physical models, and so forth. It doesn't tell you how to compute the fuel loadout for a launch vehicle.

Fetzer's approach is, "I teach the philosophy that governs your profession, therefore my understanding is superior to yours." A better approach would be, "I practice a profession that uses your scholarship, but I start where you leave off."

Go to Rate My Professor and similar sites

I guess the comments there are fairly relevant: Fetzer likes to talk down to his students, or conversely to talk over their heads. And many of them consider him a conspiracy loon. I looked up two members of my family in academia as a baseline. Out of a possible 5, my cousin scored a 5 and my mother scored a 4.5. Fetzer barely breaks a 3.

 

[Lenbrazil]

The top left corner of his site is still full of Apollohoax links.

http://www.assassinationscience.com/

To be fair, some of them are dead links. One could argue he just hasn't tended his garden lately.

According to a note at the bottom of the page it was "Last updated 15 March 2011" so it presumably reflected his views at least up till then but I would also assume he would have changed the Apollo section if his views changed significantly after that. He started plugging this stuff in 2005* and we have no evidence he's changed his mind recently.

* http://web.archive.org/web/20050728154229/http://www.assassinationscience.com/


And yes Fetzer does seem to consider himself one of God's gifts to humanity in a lengthy forum post he declared:

"I know of no faculty member anywhere whose combination of achievements exceeds my own!"

"The conference I organized in Minneapolis in 1999 contributed to
the contents and publication of MURDER IN DEALEY PLAZA,
perhaps the best book ever published on the death of JFK.
And the conference I organized in Duluth in 2003 led to
the publication of THE GREAT ZARPUDER FILM HOAX. It may
have been the most important small conference on any sub-
ject in history."

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=15222&st=15&p=178153&#entry178153

He also apparently declared The Great Zapruder Film Hoax was "a magnificent achievement that may very well stand as an enduring turning point in JFK assassination research, namely the definitive proof that the Zapruder film was faked."

http://www.assassinationscience.com/johncostella/hoax/gang/index.html

ETA:
His students don't share his elevated opinion of himself:
http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=472975&all=true

 

[Lenbrazil]

Queen Victoria had 9 official children. Before that she had one child that was born legitimately and in marriage. That was Marcos Manoel. The other 9 children were born bigamously and from incest, unbeknownst to Queen Victoria; and incest is not illegal if you don’t know about it, but the person who sired the children did know; so he would be guilty of incest and that was Lionel Nathan Rothschild – as the siring partner. Prince Consort Albert didn’t sire any of Queen Victoria’s official 9 children.​

http://www.theworldoftruth.net/HallettReport/No6.html

More from the kook Fetzer got this stuff from:

The Jews are not good rulers of the planet. they bred the Jewish leaders of WWII, hid their Jewish secret society origins and then used them to kill jews in order to create a state of Israel. Ever since, Israel has been a Mecca for war, peace frauds, oil thefts, insurance jobs (9-11), international designer drug rings, and political-psycological sex-rings.

The sexual and psycological training of Western leaders has led to such control of governments, voting has become a complete waste of time, disguised, rather badly, as free choice.

This has resulted in a One World Order where entire economics are controlled by globalisation, where stock and financial markets are rigged - the Jews again - either to retain or replace the current leader of a country.
​

Once again we see Fetzer being drawn to vile anti-Semites like bears to honey or flies to...

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Let's put it another way, if you sort CTs from "evidenceless" to "just reading it makes anyone dumber", Fetzer will go for the latter.

To use your example:
"Obama was born in Kenya" appeals do Republicans, Teabaggers, Racists etc, it doesn't require millions of dumb or involved scientists etc.

"Obama is really from Krypton" would appeal to Fetzer...

Brother-El?

(Bolding mine.)

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Fetzer, being one of the few fringe theorists with an advanced academic degree, gets to play another card that his competitors lack. His arguments more often than not boil down to, "Well I have a PhD in science, therefore anything I say is likely to be true and unless you have my education you can't even begin to argue with me." I wonder if he knows that doctorates can be withdrawn by their granting institutions for egregious behavior and/or misuse of them.

It's a conspiracy!

I mean, duh.

 

[Muc]

After hosting a number of holocaust deniers in his radio show earlier this year, Fetzer finally "comes out of the closet", according to his pal Kevin Barrett, to officially add holocaust denial to the ever growing collection of conspiracy theories that are compatible with his very special brand of "critical thinking":

Dr. Fetzer is so hopping mad at the Zionists that he's decided to come out of the closet and announce his support for holocaust revisionism! After studying the issue, Jim says that the "responsible revisionists," who admit that there was a Nazi holocaust but insist that there were few if any gas chambers and that the "six million" figure is wildly inflated, are correct.

"We get this exaggerated figure of six million jews allegedly having died during the holocaust. Now if you pay attention to the International Committee of the Red Cross and its own records, which are very detailed and specific, the number might be actually ten percent of that, might be 600,000 who died who were gipsies or jews, mentally or physically handicapped people but don't were near 6 million people."

The scumbag then proceeds to babble about how most of the jews in the camps supposedly starved as a result of allied bombing and briefly reheats the old no gas residue on "alleged" gas chamber walls story before he claims that the number of victims resulting from hypothetical israeli airstrikes on iranian nuclear reactors would be much higher than the, quote, "mythological figure" of the holocaust. It really is that bad. Didn't listen to the rest of the rant anymore.

 

[Lenbrazil]

After hosting a number of holocaust deniers in his radio show earlier this year, Fetzer finally "comes out of the closet", according to his pal Kevin Barrett, to officially add holocaust denial to the ever growing collection of conspiracy theories that are compatible with his very special brand of "critical thinking":







The scumbag then proceeds to babble about how most of the jews in the camps supposedly starved as a result of allied bombing and briefly reheats the old no gas residue on "alleged" gas chamber walls story before he claims that the number of victims resulting from hypothetical israeli airstrikes on iranian nuclear reactors would be much higher than the, quote, "mythological figure" of the holocaust. It really is that bad. Didn't listen to the rest of the rant anymore.

Do you have a link to the audio? I didn't see one on Barrett's page. About how far in did this crap start?

ETA LOL there's a link to "2 Living ETs Working With US Government" LOL it's an odd mix Weekly World News and The Spotlight.

 

[Muc]

Fetzer uploaded the audio to his web site. Friday, May 24, 2013, "Jim & Kevin take on callers and current events". The crap starts quite early, at 4 minutes, with some "anti-zionist" ranting, and the holocaust part kicks in at around 9 minutes.

The holocaust denial themed episodes of Fetzer's own show were mostly in February and March. I only listed to a few minutes of one of them in which some nazi guy named Steve Campbell voiced his admiration for Hitler, declaring him a "great person" or something to that effect.

 

[JayUtah]

... the ever growing collection of conspiracy theories that are compatible with his very special brand of "critical thinking":

This is what puzzles and irritates me most about Fetzer. Not only does he claim to think critically, he fancies himself as an expert on the subject, having written books on the subject and lectured for years to college students. He never stops reminding people how his illustrious academic career makes him a force to be reckoned with, and apparently how his credentials make him immune to errors of reason.

But really he's just a regular conspiracy theorist. And in the most insidious fashion he spews what amounts to no more rigorous a treatment than you'd get from any other foil-hat wearer, but under the guise of legitimate scholarship and science.

 

[Lenbrazil]

Fetzer uploaded the audio to his web site. Friday, May 24, 2013, "Jim & Kevin take on callers and current events". The crap starts quite early, at 4 minutes, with some "anti-zionist" ranting, and the holocaust part kicks in at around 9 minutes.

The holocaust denial themed episodes of Fetzer's own show were mostly in February and March. I only listed to a few minutes of one of them in which some nazi guy named Steve Campbell voiced his admiration for Hitler, declaring him a "great person" or something to that effect.

How did Herr Fetzer respond to that?

 

[Muc]

Here's the exchange:

CAMPBELL (6 minutes into the show): One of the greateat deceptions of the modern era, I believe, along with the Holocaust lie, is the demonisation of Adolf Hitler. [...] [Judaism] declared war on Hitler as soon as he came to power in 1933. [...]

FETZER: Which I presume doesn't mean the same thing as that you suggested Hitler was a great guy.

CAMPBELL: Well, I actually, I ... I ... I ... am of the opinion ... and this is where the great deception is, because we've been so inundated with propaganda, and who owns the propaganda mills all over the world, which is international jewery ... Ahm, Hitler actually was a great man, like JFK, our own President, who was assassinated probably by elements within the Mossad, and...

FETZER: Well...

CAMPBELL: ...because he was trying to keep nuclear weapons out of Israel.

Campbell then continues telling what a fantastic chap Hitler was for a while before his host finally offers the following reply.

FETZER (after a few seconds of stunned silence): Well, let me just say, you know, that .. ah .. ah ... I'm not in the position to ... verify some of the claims you're making, which of course are gonna be extremely controversial, but I'm glad to hear all sides of all issues ... so I ... you know, I welcome, Steven, what you could tell us about all of this without myself ... committing myself one way or the other.

He then proceeds to give Campbell 50 more minutes of which - given the topic, which was 'Myths of World War II' - I can only assume is a platform to spread more of his anti-semite nazi propaganda, before inviting him to future shows in the end. Lovely, isn't it?

 

[JayUtah]

If you side with the fringe in order to become famous, it's only a matter of time before you become as notorious as they are. Fetzer may have stepped just a little too deeply in the crazy this time.

 

[Muc]

Fetzer steered his ship further into nazi waters on wednesday by appearing on the radio show of raging anti-semite, Holocaust denier and Hitler admirer John Friend on the "American Nationalist Network". Here's Friend's blog comment on Hitler's birthday in April:

Happy Birthday, Adolf Hitler. You were and remain the greatest leader in modern Western history, and offer unparalleled inspiration and guidance to us all. God bless you, and may you forever rest in peace. Heil Hitler!

So naturally the question is just how comfortable the wannabe Führer of the 9/11 truth movement made himself in a joint show with his neo-Nazi buddy, in which the general theme was "zionist" bashing. And indeed, as the two predictably rage on about hypothetical future Israeli cruelties resulting in millions and millions of hypothetical Iranian deaths, Fetzer succesfully outnazis the nazi host with the same routine he already performed at Barrett's:

And one of the ironies here is, John, and I'm sure you're about to mention it, is that according to the estimates provided by, say, Israeli sources, some 6 million died during the holocaust. Now, the fact is that the International Committee of the Red Cross kept very maticulate records, and they reported a number closer to 600,000 including gipsies, jews and the mentally and physically impaired, but if you exaggerate that by a factor of ten, then you are talking about an attack on Iran that would bring about six times the number of deaths that the zionist propaganda likes to promote as the number who died in the Holocaust. If you assume 6 million died in the Holocaust, which I am confident is false, they are talking about taking out six times that number to attain Israeli domination of the middle east.

After repeating the allied bombing and the gas chamber wall claims later in the show, Fetzer adds to this as quoted below.

Let me just say this whole Holocaust story is illegetimate, but it has been used as propaganda. It's a principle source of zionist political influence, namely western guilt. They play on western guilt over the Holocaust story, which is a gross exaggeration in order to achieve political leverage on the western nations on the basis of the claim that we were responsible for the death of 6 million jews, when nothing like that number could possibly have died there.

Dr. Jim Fetzer, the Holocaust narrative is one big gigantic financial and political swindle, there's no doubt about it. What do you think?

I agree with you completely. It's some kind of monstrous scam, and as I was explaining ... it plays on western guilt as the greatest political lever that the state of Israel has ever had, and it's playing us like a fiddle. It's embarrassing that we fall for this because once you conduct serious research into the Holocaust it becomes obvious that it's not there, that what is claimed to have occured didn't occur.

That's just some of a number of low points. However, there was also a short moment of mild entertainment when at one point Friends's microphone went silent for a minute or two, probably because he accidently muted it, and Fetzer suspected that it was the TPTB *********** with him. He then explained how they secretely subject people who criticise them to microwave radiation. What a nutcase.

Probably by now his mailbox is overflowing with invitations to all those little anti-semite and neo-nazi internet conspiracy radio shows that hardly anyone listens to.

 

[Lenbrazil]

I had an exchange with Fetzer over this on a Yahoo group which can only be read by members. However I posted it here:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20229&p=274922

 

[Lenbrazil]

...there was also a short moment of mild entertainment when at one point Friends's microphone went silent for a minute or two, probably because he accidently muted it, and Fetzer suspected that it was the TPTB *********** with him. He then explained how they secretely subject people who criticise them to microwave radiation. What a nutcase.

LOL

 

[Lenbrazil]

However, there was also a short moment of mild entertainment when at one point Friends's microphone went silent for a minute or two, probably because he accidently muted it, and Fetzer suspected that it was the TPTB *********** with him. He then explained how they secretely subject people who criticise them to microwave radiation. What a nutcase.

About how many minutes in was that?

 

[Muc]

Some time in the last 15 minutes. I think the second Fetzer quote in my post above was during that time, when Fetzer tried to fill the uncomfortable silence with uncomfortable ramblings. Not really funny enough to listen through all the insanity for it again, though.