Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[RandyN]

that's news to me, does anyone have a reliable source for this?

Are you saying I'm not reliable? You can take it to the bank baby!!!

Two two loads of goons going to Rome is in a report from Franks site IIRC...which I no longer have access to...the story came from a report of that days trial testimony. The experts wanted to know the reason for the odd visit. I think they knew the real reason but wanted it in the record.

This was the day or near to it when the full realization sunk in of the implications for the prosecution. C and V presented the matter on DVD. I think Mignini et al wanted to threaten them with charges or whatever. This report was devastating to the prosecutions case.

In fact it killed the case....desperate measures for desperate times.

If we could get the trial records I could find a date give or take.

 

[Dan O.]

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2011/07/26/italians-cops-harass-scientists-in-amanda-knox-trial/

In a thug move, Perugia prosecutors sent two police patrols to Rome today and tried to seize a DVD from the court-appointed independent experts who testified Monday in the Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito appeals trial, according to Perugia-based blogger Frank Sfarzo and confirmed by Libero News.​

 

[Kaosium]

I am somewhat surprised Preston gets so much more attention in our media than you and maybe Steve Moore as well because you run the top pro-Knox website and you and Steve both seem to have looked at the evidence against Knox in a much more detailed way than I suspect Preston has, who strikes me an aging frat boy more interested in the conflict aspects than the actual case. One suspects Preston really doesn't care much about Knox, Knox is a proxy or a prop for him to use in waging war on Mignini, Guitarri, and the MOF occult theory. It's somewhat surprising Preston, as a writer, would hate the occult theory so much because it is more interesting than his own theory because a theory about a cabal of people murdering people for body parts is much more interesting than a theory about a lone wolf serial killer. Maybe Preston gets around that by also attackiing the occult theory in his book, while promoting his theory which isn't even his theory, so that he gets the best of both worlds.

What's the Frog saying about Preston now? Same-old, same-old I assume? I don't remember them all now, but I do remember the one where he thought there was something sinister and suspicious about how Preston wrote beforehand that the main idiot behind that (MoF) theory and the fascistic behavior was Guitarri, and Mignini was only doing his job. Obviously Preston changed his mind, or he decided to blame most of it on Guitarri and left Mignini out of it because Mignini is an unbalanced nutjob that's best to leave alone. Who wrestles with rattlesnakes? Or maybe Mignini had him played for a while, he's known have a certain charm, bright interesting guy in some respects, were he safely behind bars where he belongs I'd love to chat with him someday. Rumor has it he thinks in Latin.

At any rate, as noted before Preston changed his mind. My guess is that had something to do with Mignini coming up with another idiotic theory and taking someone in the backroom and having his thugs and thuggettes put the pressure on before he moved in for the kill. Something like that happened to Preston, his buddy Spezi was thrown in jail illegally for something like two weeks. No, Spezi was not the Monster of Florence, nor did he have anything to do with the death of Narducci, because Narducci had nothing to do with the Monster of Florence or any cults, his being murdered was (quite probably) nothing but a local urban legend that Mignini heard of someone referring to on tape or something. Next thing we know he'll be searching for the sewers of New York for the alligators. I hope he stays down there where he belongs. I hope he finds one and it bites him!

 

[GWCarver]

It would certainly indicate that the money was accounted for and didn't come from Meredith. It would show that she most likely had the rent money and then spent around 100 Euro over the 4 days.

If they gave money from her book bag one would think that they would have given her the money from the drawer, if there was any.

There certainly may be a connection, but it isn't in her book. There are only three times she mentions "euros".

1. The amount of money it would require for her to rent the room when she first arrived in Perugia.

2. When she got the spreadsheet showing the 200 euros in her prison account.

3. When Amanda watched a newscast that reported Guede had said Meredith had accused Amanda of stealing her 300 Euros rent money from her drawer.

She also mentions she forgot to check for the rent money in her room when she went to the house with police, but doesn't use the word "euros". I found this searching her book for "drawer". I also searched for "money", and found nothing related to the money in her drawer. Whatever happened to her rent money simply isn't in the book. If there is a connection, it will have to be found elsewhere.

The answer may be as simple as the police taking the money for "evidence". It's probably stored next to the mop and Amanda's lamp.

 

[RWVBWL]

A 1 night stand at Guede-o's flat, Mereidith's flat, or something more serious?

All right,
so you believe that Miss Kercher had "a date" with Guede-o...
<snip>

Hiya Grinder+The Lurkers,
I've spent many a fine evening out on the town,
in the clubs, meetin' chicks, dancing with girls I've just met or barely know...

It has been my experience, even with friends also,
that every once in a while, a dude, out on the prowl,
well meet the right gal, also prowlin'...

Sex happens.


Heck sometimes even couples,
boyfriends+girlfriends get it on while out on the town,
be it at a darkened booth in the back of the club,
in the bathroom*, outside in my truck**...

*+**:
Been there, done that!



Esh, I've read that the Guede-o can even dance.
If Miss Meredith Kercher did indeed meet up with Rudy Guede again the night before she was murdered, she had the opportunity, right there, or soon afterwards, to hook up with Guede-o for a 1 night stand.

Guede-o had his own pad then, why didn't he give Meredith the address?
Or ask her to tell her friends that she wanted to bail+go home,
but instead head over to Guede-o's flat?

It's easy,
guys+galls do it all the time,
ditch your friends, go out and have some fun...

Ya know what?
So what if Meredith wanted a 1 night stand with Guede-o!
Meredith, like Amanda, was an adult, colleged age woman, in charge of her own life.

Live life+love life...


The real problem, from what I can tell
was that if Meredith had really invited Rudy over to her flat the next evening,that signified she was not really into the dude downstairs,
and I can bet that Giacomo sure woulda been pissed off when he came back home to know that the Guede-o had slipped under the covers with his chick while he was outta town and Meredith did'nt dig him any more...

I betcha that the dudes downstairs would have never invited the Guede-o over again and smoked him out,
nor let him sleep on an unflushed toilet, no matter how drunk he got...


With all said, Grinder,
I just do not believe that Miss Kercher wanted Mr. Guede to come over while her boyfriend was outa town just so she could give Guede-o oral before she had her throat knifed open...
Do you?

 

[Grinder]

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2011/07/26/italians-cops-harass-scientists-in-amanda-knox-trial/

In a thug move, Perugia prosecutors sent two police patrols to Rome today and tried to seize a DVD from the court-appointed independent experts who testified Monday in the Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito appeals trial, according to Perugia-based blogger Frank Sfarzo and confirmed by Libero News.​

The linked Italian newspaper does not say that the police went to the experts in Rome as far as I can see.

 

[Kaosium]

This is actually a good question. I don't think the appeal is actually a trial de Novo (from the beginning).

Sure Zanetti opened with "All we know is that Meredith Kercher is dead" but then came the day when the judge reviewed the defense appeal points and in fact rejected almost every single point. It looked like it would be a repeat of trial one. Save for a few approved issues raised at the very end. One was independent review of certain items of DNA (perhaps this is what the SC had issues with...why look at just the two items?) There would be a review of disco buses, Toto, and maybe Quintinvale (?) Nara (?) and finally the prisoners who were in two layers...one group claiming Guede confided that he alone killed Kercher...another that claimed his brother did it and he knew where items (keys, etc) were stashed...buried near some wall IIRC.

A trial from the beginning would have to allow the defense appeal points to all be investigated...but that did not seem to happen.

It seems to me that Hellmann could have denied a review of every appeal issue filed in the appeal documents. It seems unclear to me.

Randy, keep in mind the reason so little was gone over again is they obviously read the Massei Report and just like most of us realized the evidence was garbage. Honest Italian judges probably had it figured out before any of us did, remember reading through it and going WTF at some point? Them too.

The DNA 'evidence' and Curatolo was the only thing tying either Raffaele or Amanda to the scene, they reviewed that and then had new witnesses come in, Aviello, Alessi and the other three guys, waste of time if you'll recall. There was no need for the rest of the stuff if the DNA and Curatolo were realized as garbage evidence too.

 

[PhantomWolf]

I was thinking it probably would be the same as the last one, where both the defense and the prosecution submitted their appeals and the court decided what they will look at, it probably would be the same appeals, I doubt they would write up new ones.

You don't think that the defence will be cleaver enough to at least add the C&V conclusions to their appeal about the DNA? I would.

 

[Grinder]

RW,

I certainly think that it is possible that Meredith would agree to get together with Rudi. I don't think she had anything but a fling going with Giacomo and he said as much.

If she did agree to meet him, that doesn't mean that she was ready for your suggestions and could have been what set him off.

Meredith was a normal college girl and was definitely enjoying herself in Italy. She preferred alcohol to pot and had partied until daylight that fateful day. Just as I believe the early reports of TOD(10-10:15) and the type of knife (pen or even a screwdriver) I believe there was reason to think the attacker might have been someone she knew.

I am fine with you thinking it is a crazy idea and I certainly wouldn't bet the farm on it.

 

[Grinder]

Randy, keep in mind the reason so little was gone over again is they obviously read the Massei Report and just like most of us realized the evidence was garbage. Honest Italian judges probably had it figured out before any of us did, remember reading through it and going WTF at some point? Them too.

The DNA 'evidence' and Curatolo was the only thing tying either Raffaele or Amanda to the scene, they reviewed that and then had new witnesses come in, Aviello, Alessi and the other three guys, waste of time if you'll recall. There was no need for the rest of the stuff if the DNA and Curatolo were realized as garbage evidence too.

Curatolo only served to break their alibi of staying in all night. If they had really been out there from 9:30 to almost midnight, one would certainly think they would have mentioned it to the police. They would have noticed Curatolo and all the others in the plaza and figured someone could ID them. So just make up a story about a romantic evening in the park and confess that they were drinking a little Grappa to stay warm but they didn't see anything at the cottage which couldn't be seen from the plaza.

 

[Dan O.]

Is there a document of all the evidence seized? I noticed they took the bleach box that was full of papers and stuff From the book shelf in the hall. It's like, what would students be doing with an empty box? They must have been cleaning all week!

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Theodore Simon quote

“Fortunately, I secured the world’s greatest DNA expert, the scientist who formed the DNA lab for the FBI, as our expert,” said Simon, who worked in conjunction with Knox’s Italian lawyers. “He found that the knife, which was a key piece of trial evidence, did not contain blood. Therefore, it could not have been the murder weapon.” Simon is referring to Bruce Budowle.

 

[GWCarver]

For those who don't stop by IA/IIP (and you really should...), Karen has written another great article, much of it about what I would call Italy's very own "Town Without Pity'.

http://www.groundreport.com/Business/PERUGIANS-AND-TABLOIDS-AND-TROLLS-OH-MY/2953339

 

[Bill Williams]

“Fortunately, I secured the world’s greatest DNA expert, the scientist who formed the DNA lab for the FBI, as our expert,” said Simon, who worked in conjunction with Knox’s Italian lawyers. “He found that the knife, which was a key piece of trial evidence, did not contain blood. Therefore, it could not have been the murder weapon.” Simon is referring to Bruce Budowle.

Bruce Budowle will soon join John Douglas, Saul Kassim, Timothy Egan, Steve Moore and Bruce Fisher as paid stooges of the Seattle based and evil PR campaign. Remember you saw it here first.

 

[js202]

I believe that it is possible that he either had or thought he had a date with her. The first reports said that the sex was consensual and that they thought that it might have been someone she met the night before.

The british girls were known to imbibe to excess and their testimony that Meredith didn't talk to Rudi has no weight for me.

Many here, myself included, think that the Skype call means something. He said Amanda wasn't there and most here believe he was telling the truth. He said that the murder occurred around 9:15 and most here believe that.

He said he went to meet Meredith. The PGP disdain that because Meredith wouldn't make a date with such a low life and the PIP disdain it because they believe that it was a burglary gone bad.

There are aspects of the break-in that make it look possible to be a staged one, but I believe that Rudi definitely was involved with it.

Therefore, his thinking he a had a date or actually had one, then things went haywire and the broken window could be accounted for by Rudi stupidly using his MO to make it look like someone that didn't know her or had a date had done it. He would have believed that she would have shared with her girlfriends but as we know she didn't.

PIP are sure it was a burglary gone bad. PGP are sure the kids staged it after arranging the murder.

I'm not saying my scenario is what happened, but it is possible. Occam and Locard are only rules of thumb.

*Maybe* he thought he had a date with her. But, short of StagedBreakInLand, where does that get you?

However, I do not believe for a second that Meredith set a date to have physical relations with this socially awkward, physically unattractive guy. Beauty and the Beast one night stands can happen under the influence of alcohol and/or other substances. But on the spur of the moment, to be regretted later.

Meredith had the new relationship with Giacomo going on downstairs, she dug him enough to be tending after his pot plants for him, etc. She was crushing on Giacomo; Rudy Guede wouldn't even merit a blip on her radar.

 

[js202]

There is no evidence that Rudi emailed anybody.

So how are we to believe he maintained his relations, then? Smoke signals?

Rudy Guede was savvy enough to Skype, so surely he could email. But, actually, I meant the line as hyperbole, knowing that email is the lowest rung on the Gen Y communication hierarchy. Meredith would have traded cell numbers with this jerk-off if she wished to have any kind of association with him. Then he would have tried to text her, and she would have ignored him...

But no communication of any kind? Nonsense. An attractive girl like Meredith does not need to bother with a marginal figure like Guede, sniffing around. Nor would she.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

You don't think that the defence will be cleaver enough to at least add the C&V conclusions to their appeal about the DNA? I would.

Of course it would, but I', not sure they will be given the opportunity, actually that is my question, they have, as well as the prosecution, submitted their appeals, would they be able to add to then or not, I'm guessing not.

 

[DrTesla]

I'm really starting to suspect Rudy was framed. It just doesn't make sense he's going to be in this house, or he's so dumb that he's going to break into the house using the highest access point possible all within sight and sound of potential witness including cars on the main road when there is a window round back off the balcony that he could slip through in relatiive seclusion with minimal hassle.

Many people, including Hellman and some Friends posting on here, seem to think it is impossible that Knox and Raffe would be doing anything with Rudy, much less butchering the victim, because he was black and of a lower class than them. But it seems to me that this could be a counterargument that Rudy was not in fact involved at all in the murder and only the two still accused committed the murder, which makes more sense when you understand that Knox had daily contact with the victim while Rudy rarely if ever saw Meredith and when he did he was likely stoned and with a large group of people. Also consider that we know that Rudy was sexually attracted to Knox and had no use for the British girl who some may argue is somewhat odd looking....I do not consider her ugly but she is not a classic beauty by any objective measure. I also can't imagine Rudy raping the girlfriend of his friend that he enjoys playing basketball, baseball and smoking pot and partying with....guys usually aren't going to mess with their friends girls much less rape them.

Considering all of this and considering that race relations between Italians and blacks is not good, one begins to start to suspect the police would be capable of setting up Rudy as the fall guy, and all this talk of DNA evidence and feces of Rudy's at the crime scence is likely all made up. A professional burglar like Rudy is really going to leave his crap in the toilet, that's just not believable at all to me. Mignini actually has probably been a thorn in the police's side as they see it because they had hoped to pin this all on the black guy out of their racism but he was obsessed with finding the other two guilty and he would not let the idea of the staged break-in through the high window go. I just cant get past the fact that Knox referred to Patrick, a man of 40, as an African boy, and then another black guy with no association with the victim ends up taking 100 percent of the blame.

I'm thinking it might be a good idea to start a website entitled True Justice for Rudy Guede. Mignini may have been more right than he knew when he referred to Rudy as "poor poor Rudy" to tweak young Amanda in court and manipulate her into crying numerous times to appear as though she knew she was guilty and could not spin her way out of it.

I am thinking that staring a website called True Justice For "Jane" The Dancer might also be a very good idea, b/c I'm tired of these liberal perverts like Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy getting away with sexual harrassment and worse. I cannot understand why any Guilter would want to be associated with this man if these charges are true and so far I have not see anything that proves they are not true other than him apparently telling others it was all a big lie. If you accused me of sexuall harrassing a woman or several women, I would have you in court in a skinny minute if it was not true and I certainly would not allow you to continue to post the false allegation on your website without the full Weight of the Law and Justice coming down on you real hard and real fast. I'm not saying this guy is guilty b/c we must presume innocence but something really stinks here. The other guilters might have to shun this guy if they have any moral conscience at all because we cannot afford to be associated with a sexual pervert especially in light of the fact that they accuse us of being sexual perverts, possibliyy as bit of a joke, possibly at least partly serious, in our desire to see Knox go to jail and the fact that some of us might on occasion engage in a bit of inappropriate humor about her sex addiction.

I want to say the main reason that I became interested in this case is that I learned that Meredith has been raped prior to the murder, as my sister was raped at a very young age by some old pervert, and I actually met my wife through my sister who met my wife at a rape victims support group. My wife was also raped. I don't think most of these sexual harrassers and rapists ever get caught and their actions really impact lives forever.

 

[GWCarver]

So how are we to believe he maintained his relations, then? Smoke signals?

Rudy Guede was savvy enough to Skype, so surely he could email. But, actually, I meant the line as hyperbole, knowing that email is the lowest rung on the Gen Y communication hierarchy. Meredith would have traded cell numbers with this jerk-off if she wished to have any kind of association with him. Then he would have tried to text her, and she would have ignored him...

But no communication of any kind? Nonsense. An attractive girl like Meredith does not need to bother with a marginal figure like Guede, sniffing around. Nor would she.

Plus:

A University of Perugia student told the Perugia court that he had seen Guede at a local disco in the early morning hours of Nov. 3, after Kercher's murder. Pietro Camplongo said Guede was dancing alone, and that people were keeping their distance from him, because he smelled "as if he hadn't washed."

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7995762&page=2#.UZ7Nj5xTCFA

 

[Kaosium]

Bruce Budowle will soon join John Douglas, Saul Kassim, Timothy Egan, Steve Moore and Bruce Fisher as paid stooges of the Seattle based and evil PR campaign. Remember you saw it here first.

It already began, almost two years ago now. Go back to July 10th, 2011 down the bunnyhole. That was shortly after the C&V Report was released and Thoughtful was translating it piece by piece, each delicious morsel more and more damning to Stefanoni. Thoughtful had some idea of how it was going to turn out, (being able to read it musta helped!) the rest seemed to be taking the position that if they didn't understand it, then it couldn't mean what it said.

At any rate as former head of the FBI DNA lab Budowle has a lot of papers out on the subject, especially for LCN DNA. Amongst a plethora of citations in that section, he is included. The Bunnies found that he'd gotten into a dispute with Theresa Carrigne, (who is also cited by C&V) who was then a rising star in the New York Office of the Medical Examiner, she is a proponent of employing LCN/LT DNA, (with far stricter standards than Stefanoni incidentally) and they figured she was a big star, this Budowle clown must be some second rate defense hack, they didn't even know who he was!

So they e-mailed Theresa Carrigne, hoping she would help them slay the evil second rate defense hack. She declined to participate. Then as only tidbits had been translated by Thoughtful they decided to leap upon what little they'd seen and denounce the Conti-Vecciotti Report as Weak, Tendentious, Cites Non-Existent Standards in an article written by Fly By Night, purportedly an academic at U-Washington, Amanda's home school. He moonlights by writing ignorant trash about subjects he knows nothing about off smidgens translated completely out of context in the aim of denying Amanda her freedom and hoping to destroy her life. Read the article, it makes it sound like the ISFG recommendations are a primary reason for the determination the DNA results Stefanoni cooked up are not reliable, in reality, they're not even mentioned in the conclusions! I suppose they'd have been better off waiting for that part to be translated.

The other main point was that the bibliography (which had been translated) contains a vast and diverse number of citations from procedure manuals from all over the developed world which they find astounding and suspicious, knowing nothing of why they were included (that part hadn't been translated), jumping to the unwarranted conclusion C&V were trying to impose some sort of standard. Instead all they did is note that ILE not only failed to meet their own standards, which were cited, and are shared by law enforcement agencies all over the world.

There have been more hateful and doltish articles written about this case, but all things considered there are few that meet that 'standard' for vapidity and ignorance. Interestingly enough Theresa Caragine whom they hoped to enlist in their mission to deny Amanda and Raffaele their freedom and support the work of Stefanoni resigned under a cloud from the New York OME for skirting the professional protocols of her position.