Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[anglolawyer]

The Guede sentence is what is truly shocking about this case. Didn't he even admit to cellmates that he did this alone?

I'd also like to know how someone who had been in Italy for only a few weeks could have possibly had the language skills to persuade two men to help her rape and kill her flatmate - when she could probably barely order a pizza? Or was there one giant game of murderous charades prior to the event - maybe they misunderstood and all Amanda really wanted was to play a game of Cluedo! It's beyond ridiculous and far fetched and virtually science fiction

Hi Nancy. You must be another of the lurkers who have not quite been blown away by the recent PGP tsunami

 

[Kaosium]

I wonder what utter nobodies like the Kerchers and Maresca value more; millions of Euros, or knowledge and truth?

It was my understanding that the Kercher's were reasonably well off. I certainly don't know the area like you might, what's Coulsdon (is that right?) like?

Actually, I don't - they've already made it quite clear.

With Maresca mumbling about millions from the Sollecitos and hinting to them about some big PR firm spiriting Amanda out of the clutches of justice, I don't think they ever really had a chance at the truth.

Heh, do you remember when Kermit wrote an 'open letter' to the Marriott firm insisting they denounce your posts or something? Gawd that was funny reading through the thread some three years ago!

 

[Grinder]

We are zeroing in on another farcical aspect of this case: that all three were not tried together. It will be interesting to see the SC motivation.

Or at least that Rudi could be questioned at their trial. And that Patrick's was held at the same time. Also, that Rudi's trial declared multiple attackers when that benefited both the defense and prosecution and no one was there to argue otherwise.

 

[Supernaut]

How did Guede leave sufficient skin (epithelial) cells in Meredith's vagina to clearly reveal his genetic profile?

Would his inserting his fingers have been able to leave such traces?

Or would it be more likely to have been from his penis?

I tend to think that the latter is more likely - it's a safe bet that Guede is un-circumcised, and hence he would have left abundant cells from even a desultory penetration.

But then again, might he have finger-*****d her energetically while he masturbated over her?

 

[Kaosium]

The Guede sentence is what is truly shocking about this case. Didn't he even admit to cellmates that he did this alone?

Not quite, Mario Alessi and ~3 others testified that Rudy had said to them that Raffaele and Amanda weren't involved, it was a dead drunk fat guy who fled to England who started to rape her while Rudy was in the bathroom, he came out and the fat guy had stabbed her so Rudy just finished her off at his insistence to avoid getting caught. They were all threatened with charges by the prosecution before they testified, and one other (a Romanian?) backed off, but Alessi and at least two others did testify.

I'd also like to know how someone who had been in Italy for only a few weeks could have possibly had the language skills to persuade two men to help her rape and kill her flatmate - when she could probably barely order a pizza? Or was there one giant game of murderous charades prior to the event - maybe they misunderstood and all Amanda really wanted was to play a game of Cluedo! It's beyond ridiculous and far fetched and virtually science fiction

The weird thing is some try to connect Rudy to Amanda because they'd been introduced when with the boys downstairs, and Rudy went into Le Chic once and had been seen by Amanda around the neighborhood. One of Rudy's friends testified he'd seen them with the boys downstairs with Meredith a couple of times, he's the outlier.

By those rules Amanda must have 'known' about a hundred people in Perugia just as well or better. Starting with the boys downstairs, her flatmates, the regulars at the bar and all her co-workers, her instructors at school, all her classmates, the English girls...etc.

 

[PhantomWolf]

The Guede sentence is what is truly shocking about this case. Didn't he even admit to cellmates that he did this alone?

That was what was testified to in the Apeal, but I think even most PIPs believe that the prison testimony was pretty worthless.

 

[anglolawyer]

That was what was testified to in the Apeal, but I think even most PIPs believe that the prison testimony was pretty worthless.

It usually is.

 

[Kaosium]

We are zeroing in on another farcical aspect of this case: that all three were not tried together. It will be interesting to see the SC motivation.

I'm betting it has something to do with the appointment of C&V, amongst other things Hellmann mentioning something about how the prosecutors have great pull within the legal system suggests that. Prosecutors right now have more or less total control of what can be considered evidence in court, they're even the head of the investigation and can guide the evidence gathering process as well. Being able to pull things out of their ass, say they tested positive with luminol, and are bodily substances they 'hypothesize' are whatever they need evidence of must make convictions much easier!

 

[PhantomWolf]

Because I find it most unlikely that Raff had these balls of DNA rolling around the apartment, I believe he was there only for a few hours on Nov 1st and about an hour on Nov 2nd, 3/4 hours at most, while people that lived there would be thousands of hours, why wasn't their DNA on the clasp. Now if you want to say it was deliberately put there that would be far more likely, though I don't know why this would happen either.

I note that you sidestepped the question rather then actually answered it. I also noted that you failed to answer the first question at all.

Are you willing to accept that contamination of the Bra hook occured at all? If not, how do you explain the DNA that was from neither MK or RS that was found on it?

And how do you explain tha lack of RS's DNA on the strap where it was held to rip it of, but rather RG's there, and the aspriated blood on MK's breasts, if the bra was not removed untill long after she died, and by Raffele as you suggested?

 

[Bill Williams]

Because I find it most unlikely that Raff had these balls of DNA rolling around the apartment, I believe he was there only for a few hours on Nov 1st and about an hour on Nov 2nd, 3/4 hours at most, while people that lived there would be thousands of hours, why wasn't their DNA on the clasp. Now if you want to say it was deliberately put there that would be far more likely, though I don't know why this would happen either.

I note that you sidestepped the question rather then actually answered it. I also noted that you failed to answer the first question at all.

Are you willing to accept that contamination of the Bra hook occured at all? If not, how do you explain the DNA that was from neither MK or RS that was found on it?

And how do you explain tha lack of RS's DNA on the strap where it was held to rip it of, but rather RG's there, and the aspriated blood on MK's breasts, if the bra was not removed untill long after she died, and by Raffele as you suggested?

I, too, would like to hear this answered directly. My bet, though, is that there will be more name calling.

 

[Briars]

I wonder what utter nobodies like the Kerchers and Maresca value more; millions of Euros, or knowledge and truth?

Actually, I don't - they've already made it quite clear.

No one left to step in and object to this bottom of the barrel scum talk. Great company for all of you. The writing on the wall must be causing you to loose all sense of decency. The professor should cringe at the thought of one of his students reading whats posted here against a murdered student's family.

 

[Bill Williams]

The Guede sentence is what is truly shocking about this case. Didn't he even admit to cellmates that he did this alone?

I'd also like to know how someone who had been in Italy for only a few weeks could have possibly had the language skills to persuade two men to help her rape and kill her flatmate - when she could probably barely order a pizza? Or was there one giant game of murderous charades prior to the event - maybe they misunderstood and all Amanda really wanted was to play a game of Cluedo! It's beyond ridiculous and far fetched and virtually science fiction

And on top of this, the prosecution tried out three "motives" all of which were eventually rejected at trial - and by "at trial" I mean the trial that convicted them in 2009.

- it was a Satanic rite gone wrong
- it was a sex-crazed orgy gone wrong
- it was a revenge fantasy that Amanda inflicted onto Meredith​

Judge Massei rejected all of these and substituted his own reason - Sollecito and Knox made a momentary "choice for evil", while at the same time rejecting any psychopathology attributable to either. That's some choice!

I am glad there are some new folk contributing here. The obviousness of their innocence is.... well, obvious, and the themes that people have to dream up to continue to claim guilt is astonding - mainly because no one who assumes guilt puts together a coherent theory of the crime which involves the two. That's the bottom line.

 

[Kaosium]

That was what was testified to in the Apeal, but I think even most PIPs believe that the prison testimony was pretty worthless.

It turned out backfiring (as it allowed Rudy to make an appearance where that letter was read) and I doubt it was true in totality, but it wouldn't surprise me if he actually said that to them. They did risk longer sentences to testify, whether anyone believes a shovel-wielding toddler-killer is another matter.

All things considered I think Mignini mastered the defense on the whole prison thing, it wasn't a good idea. I recall reading that they did it in part to show that one can get a witness to anything, much like Mignini with Curatolo, and that the 'investigation' didn't take things like Aviello's letter into account, but it just made them look silly in the end.

 

[Kaosium]

No one left to step in and object to this bottom of the barrel scum talk. Great company for all of you. The writing on the wall must be causing you to loose all sense of decency. The professor should cringe at the thought of one of his students reading whats posted here against a murdered student's family.

You should cringe because Mignini and Maresca will have seen to it Rudy will be eligible to get out of prison before the vendetta being pursued against two innocent college kids winds through the Italian Court System.

There's utterly no moral superiority anyone supporting that can pretend to. If you don't like people wondering if you're profiteering off a death, then don't try to do it. Especially at the expense of justice done to the one with actual evidence against them and a perfectly normal narrative and motive, not one some lunatic hypothesized on the basis of a mistaken arrest on bogus evidence which was disproved by the forensics.

 

[anglolawyer]

No one left to step in and object to this bottom of the barrel scum talk. Great company for all of you. The writing on the wall must be causing you to loose all sense of decency. The professor should cringe at the thought of one of his students reading whats posted here against a murdered student's family.

As far as I know, neither the professor nor or anyone else is responsible for the content of other members' posts. It may be you need to re-think what an internet forum is.

 

[DrTesla]

And on top of this, the prosecution tried out three "motives" all of which were eventually rejected at trial - and by "at trial" I mean the trial that convicted them in 2009.

- it was a Satanic rite gone wrong
- it was a sex-crazed orgy gone wrong
- it was a revenge fantasy that Amanda inflicted onto Meredith​

Judge Massei rejected all of these and substituted his own reason - Sollecito and Knox made a momentary "choice for evil", while at the same time rejecting any psychopathology attributable to either. That's some choice!

I am glad there are some new folk contributing here. The obviousness of their innocence is.... well, obvious, and the themes that people have to dream up to continue to claim guilt is astonding - mainly because no one who assumes guilt puts together a coherent theory of the crime which involves the two. That's the bottom line.

Mignini never ever said it was about a Satanic rite going wrong. that's a real big lie so why should anybody believe you anything else? You goal is to mislead. you cannot provide one quote from Mignini where he talks about satantic rite in this case, or any other case which is curious if it was his motive theory he could hardly keep it a secret.

prosecution's modify their motive theories all the time as more information comes in during the course of the trial. if Mignini was a zealot he would not account for new information but stay stuck on one idea no matter what.

the prosecution can't prove a motive theory and it doesn't need to if there is evidence all 3 of them were there that night. Massei's motive theory seems off to me b/c there is evidence it was pre-planned such as Raffe setting up the movie to run on his computer when they were not there which was just set up to give the two an alibi because they didn't think the police could discern b/t active and non active computer usage. they also both turned off their cell phones that night around 8 despite no history of ever doing that which is a huge coincidence if they are truly innocent.
also, given the fact victim dna was found on the blade of the knife in raffe's kitchen, that knife must have been take from raffe's house to cottage that night before the murder and thus they were planning on using it to threaten and/or kill Knox from the start.

keep in mind that Knox is a creative writing major and she fancies herself as creative. she also likes practical jokes as demonstrated by the rock throwing at moving cars at her party in Seattle and by her keeping her rabbit vibrator out in the open in the bathroom she shared with Meredith to annoy/intimidate Meredith. It is not difficult to evension this creative writing major coming up with some scheme to haze her conceited little prissy roommate Meredith and given the fact the two were on drugs that did not have the judgment to back off of this idea.
also note well that Knox's favorite novel is Crime and PUnishment which is basically about a guy who commits a murder and gets away with it. this guy thinks he has a moral right to kill people that he finds are worthless and human debris.
we should also note the fact that Knox had at least 7 sex partners by age 20, a reputationa of being a man eater, her own email admission that she had sex with a stranger on the train to Perugia which also shows her addiction to danger, we begin to understand that this babe had some psychological issues that are exposed in a sexual way. Most women don't have 7 sex partners in their entire lives much less by the age of 20, b/c they are worried about getting pregnant with some guy's baby who they don't love and/or they have moral qualms over abortion. so Knox basically going around having tons of sex with random guys like pregnancy/abortion isn't a risk does indicate she is missing some of her marbles. We must also not fail to consider that Knox acted in an incredible sexual way post murder to include kissing her boyfriend outside the cottage, engaging in a bit of foreplay with him at the station, flirting with the cops at the crime scene in her infamous ta-da bootie thing and hip swivel, doing yoga stances at the station that no doubt were sexual in nature, and buying G-strings at a sex shop and making such a sexed up scene that it attracted the attention of the store owner and other customers such that the store owner gave the store cctv tape to the police and even testified in court about this and there's no reason why any store owner would want to get involved in a criminal trial if all she did was buy some underwear and that's it.

 

[anglolawyer]

It turned out backfiring (as it allowed Rudy to make an appearance where that letter was read) and I doubt it was true in totality, but it wouldn't surprise me if he actually said that to them. They did risk longer sentences to testify, whether anyone believes a shovel-wielding toddler-killer is another matter.

All things considered I think Mignini mastered the defense on the whole prison thing, it wasn't a good idea. I recall reading that they did it in part to show that one can get a witness to anything, much like Mignini with Curatolo, and that the 'investigation' didn't take things like Aviello's letter into account, but it just made them look silly in the end.

Easy to say in hindsight. Not so easy when you're the one making these judgment calls blind.

 

[Kaosium]

Easy to say in hindsight. Not so easy when you're the one making these judgment calls blind.

Well, true enough, hindsight is 20-20. However the old adage: 'when fighting a rat stay out of the sewer, he knows it better than you' might apply.

OK, I just made that up, (I think) but I suspect they underestimated Mignini there.

 

[Bill Williams]

Mignini never ever said it was about a Satanic rite going wrong. that's a real big lie so why should anybody believe you anything else? You goal is to mislead. you cannot provide one quote from Mignini where he talks about satantic rite in this case, or any other case which is curious if it was his motive theory he could hardly keep it a secret.

I posted the link upthread to John Follain's Sunday Times piece where Follain reports on this. If you do not know who John Follain is, he wrote the "guilter" book on this case, "A Death in Italy", and had unique access to Giuliano Mignini right up until the appeal's verdict.

Follain, John (19 October 2008). "Amanda Knox ‘stabbed Meredith Kercher to death in satanic ritual’". Sunday Times (London).

Look it up. To use your logic, why should we believe anything Follain says? Hey.... that's not a bad idea!!!

 

[Grinder]

As far as I know, neither the professor nor or anyone else is responsible for the content of other members' posts. It may be you need to re-think what an internet forum is.

Are we talking Gilligan's Island?