Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Chris_Halkides]

Florence Eat!

somehow some foodie person ends up being a source authority on Knox's...

Oh, you mean Barbie Nadeau? Link here.

 

[Rolfe]

- What at first-glance appears to be the arch of the foot in the print is actually, in all probablility, from the hem of Guede's jeans. Only the toes and phalanx (balls of the foot) are impressed on the mat.

Oh, I see what you mean, I hadn't realised that. It seems obvious to me that the shape of the big toe is far far closer a match to Rudy's than to Raffaele's, and indeed it's nothing like Raffaele's.

Not that this means it's Rudy's, it's a splodge and I'm sure there are many other people with similarly-shaped toes. However, I'd say the dissimilarities with Raffaele's foot are enough to be more or less a rule-out.

Rolfe.

 

[Dan O.]

A couple of observations/corrections;

- The mat had been moved at least once (by Amanda on the morning of the 2nd Nov). Even if there had been a contiguous impression of the heel, it would have been elsewhere on the tiled floor.

- What at first-glance appears to be the arch of the foot in the print is actually, in all probablility, from the hem of Guede's jeans. Only the toes and phalanx (balls of the foot) are impressed on the mat.

Many people fail to see this and end up rotating the 'reference' prints of Guede and Sollecito several degrees counter-clockwise when they try to overlay them, and in doing so losing several correspondencies which ARE discernable. With Guede's foot.

I thought it was also pointed out that the same pattern is replicated on other tiles.

 

[Rolfe]

Yes, I remember that being pointed out.

Rolfe.

 

[Supernaut]

Oh, I see what you mean, I hadn't realised that. It seems obvious to me that the shape of the big toe is far far closer a match to Rudy's than to Raffaele's, and indeed it's nothing like Raffaele's.

Not that this means it's Rudy's, it's a splodge and I'm sure there are many other people with similarly-shaped toes. However, I'd say the dissimilarities with Raffaele's foot are enough to be more or less a rule-out.

Rolfe.

I knocked up a few simple graphics way back, for this post, back on the 2nd part the thread (!). Unfortunately I used tinypic.com to host them and they've been deleted.

The most striking correspondence is the shape/outline of Guede's phalanx - a distinct cleft separating the ball of his big-toe from the rest of it, completely absent in Raffaele's print.

ETA >> ack - "seperating"

.

 

[DrTesla]

Oh, you mean Barbie Nadeau? Link here.

Barbie nadeau lives in Italy, speaks Italian, and she went to most of the Knox court proceedings. as opposed to Candice, who didn't, and lives in Seattle near the Knox family and their PR headquarters, so to speak. you can tell Candice is an advocate for Knox's innocence and not a objective journalist. I don't get the impression Barbie much cares either way what the outcome is she just thinks the evidence points to Knox's guilt.

Barbie reports on things that happen in Italy. her beat is Italy, even her food book appears to be centered on Italy.

here's a link to Candace Dempsey that seems to indicate she offers instruction on food writing http://www.writers.com/dempsey.html

 

[yimyammer]

would you have broken into that cottage via that route if there was a windown lower down on the other side of the house not in sight of the main road?

What window are you referring to? To my knowledge every window besides Filomena's had security bars on them.

 

[DrTesla]

What window are you referring to? To my knowledge every window besides Filomena's had security bars on them.

the balcony window on the other side of the house. the house had been broken into twice before via that window.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

the balcony window on the other side of the house. the house had been broken into twice before via that window.

Actually, it was the kitchen window, off the balcony, easiest window by far to break into and also one Rudi would have seen every time he was at his friends home. It was broken into twice after the murder, I wonder if they have barred that window now as well.

 

[DrTesla]

Actually, it was the kitchen window, off the balcony, easiest window by far to break into and also one Rudi would have seen every time he was at his friends home. It was broken into twice after the murder, I wonder if they have barred that window now as well.

ok, I thought some had referred to it as the balcony window.

I think that I make a mistake in talking about it being improbable that Rudy would go though that high window with the kitchen window available. they keep saying it's doable not matther how illogical and improbable and their premise is if it's doable then he did it, which is silly.

reality is there is no evidence he went through the high window on the exterior of the house or inside that bedroom plus the window appeared to have been broken from the inside with the shutters at least partially closed to account for the fact none of the glass ended up in the yard.

 

[yimyammer]

A couple of observations/corrections;

- The mat had been moved at least once (by Amanda on the morning of the 2nd Nov). Even if there had been a contiguous impression of the heel, it would have been elsewhere on the tiled floor.

- What at first-glance appears to be the arch of the foot in the print is actually, in all probablility, from the hem of Guede's jeans. Only the toes and phalanx (balls of the foot) are impressed on the mat.

Many people fail to see this and end up rotating the 'reference' prints of Guede and Sollecito several degrees counter-clockwise when they try to overlay them, and in doing so losing several correspondencies which ARE discernable. With Guede's foot.

Oh, I see what you mean, I hadn't realised that. It seems obvious to me that the shape of the big toe is far far closer a match to Rudy's than to Raffaele's, and indeed it's nothing like Raffaele's.

Not that this means it's Rudy's, it's a splodge and I'm sure there are many other people with similarly-shaped toes. However, I'd say the dissimilarities with Raffaele's foot are enough to be more or less a rule-out.

Rolfe.

like I said, I was probably just seeing things and that photo is too dark to say what I think I saw was in any way certain

Like so many issues with this case, this print seems to depend on the eye of the beholder and is too smudged to be of any significant evidentiary value (IMO), certainly not enough to send someone to jail for years

its not like a fingerprint where distinct lines and grooves can be matched exactly to a known print The carpet of the matt distorts the print too much in my opinion

I'm not following you about the hem of Rudys jean hem, if possible can you elaborate?

 

[acbytesla]

lol, I think you are making it sound more difficult, and again no

fingerprints were found at all in the apartment except on a glass in the kitchen.

WOW!!! You really need to start studying the case and and stop talking out of your backside.
There were in fact 23 fingerprints found in Meredith's bedroom. 6 found in Amanda's bedroom and 2 in Filomena's room and 3 in the kitchen/LR 21 in Laura's room and 2 in the big bathroom and 1 on the door to the balcony . These were prints that could be identified or attributed to match actual people. I notice the series FR prints going all the way to 101. I took this from the Cottage Fingerpint map gif that is frankly difficult to read.

I'm not saying it would be difficult. I'm saying it would be IMPOSSIBLE. What I don't understand is how you could actually think about the process of this selective cleaning and think for one second is possible.

A cleanup would leave telltale smudges and streaks that would be seen with...you guessed it ...LUMINOL.

I think fingerprints are usually found on glass or metallic surfaces or plastic surfaces and I doubt those kind of surfaces were present in the victim's room.

Fingerprints can be left on wood, paper, metal, glass, plastic, tile, some fabrics, walls and countless other surfaces....but this doesn't matter since 23 matched fingerprints were lifted from Meredith's bedroom....

again, you refuse to admit they either had to try remove their traces, or they had to remove the body and clean them all up. since the body wasn't removed, it looks like the went with remove their traces.

Of course I refuse. It's absurd, because you can't selectively do this. If the room was cleaned from top to bottom and the body was left there, you'd have an argument but there is no way to go into a room with a bloody floor and blood everywhere and do this selectively.

the luminol exposed their bloody footprints that had been wiped up,

Where? in the hallway? Amanda's bedroom? You do realize that those prints were tested for blood with TMB and the result was NEGATIVE..right? You do know that don't you? So how do you justify saying it was blood when the two tests contradict each other and no confirming test for blood was ever performed?

Also if these barefoot prints were blood and wiped, the barefoot prints seen with the Luminol would not be as well defined as they were, they would show telltale streaks of the wiping. They didn't.

Also note that none of the Luminol barefoot prints can be found in Meredith's bedroom. How was that accomplished?

From my perspective, there is a simple reason, the barefoot prints seen in the hallway were made at a different time. My personal guess is that because Luminol reacts to the iron atoms in blood, the Luminol barefoot prints are the result of someone taking shower with higher than average amount of rust in the water and that person walking around with wet feet from that shower. But it could have been countless different substances. Without a confirming test, there is no conclusive proof to what substance reacted to the Luminol.

Score:
ACbyTesla 5 Dr.Tesla NIL.

Sort of like watching the Sounders play Manchester United last year. I'm like Rooney as he sliced and diced his way through my beloved green machine.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

it's funny how you guys always do these appeal to authority arguments, citing lawyers, pyschologists, fbi agents, etc, but then you always cite a mall clerk's website as the go to source on this case. he's apparently a legal expert, a dna expert, a psychology expert, etc etc etc, but then you look as his site and he claims that Mignini said the Knox case was about a satanic rite and you know he's a liar.

I know Barbie nadaue has reported there was not any fingerprints found in the cottage that could be identified, outside of Knox's on a glass in the kitchen.

I don't think it matters who actually houses the information. You can either get it from IIP or from some site run by someone named (I think) Peggy Ganong, a housewife who does transcription. Why does it matter as long as it is real information? Unfortunately the Perugia court house does not have the information available on a website for all to see.

And Mignini DID say it was about a satanic ritual and he is a liar.

 

[yimyammer]

I knocked up a few simple graphics way back, for this post, back on the 2nd part the thread (!). Unfortunately I used tinypic.com to host them and they've been deleted.

The most striking correspondence is the shape/outline of Guede's phalanx - a distinct cleft separating the ball of his big-toe from the rest of it, completely absent in Raffaele's print.

ETA >> ack - "seperating" [qimg]http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u529/Oxford59/smiley_emoticons_doh_zps039300aa.gif[/qimg].

thanks for the link, the picture below was taken from that link. I was obviously seeing things in the dark photo I was looking at. Assuming the photo below was taken in that bathroom and is reliable, etc, there is clearly no heal marks on the tile. And I'd have to say the footprint is more distinct than I previously thought as well

 

[Grinder]

This is absolutely hilarious. The special select-o-matic fingerprint eraser. Where do I get one?

There's a wee problem with that. I'm not sure the special select-o-matic DNA eraser was commercially available back in 2007. And there's the thing. The more time you spend crawling round a room struggling to find your own fingerprints and rub them out - and where are the signs of rubbing, by the way? - the more time you spend in there shedding DNA.

Rolfe.

Ah but they were. Hoover had their Select-O-Matic Bagless vacuum and Little Giant had their Only Mine fingerprint eraser.

 

[yimyammer]

Barbie nadeau lives in Italy, speaks Italian, and she went to most of the Knox court proceedings. as opposed to Candice, who didn't, and lives in Seattle near the Knox family and their PR headquarters, so to speak. you can tell Candice is an advocate for Knox's innocence and not a objective journalist. I don't get the impression Barbie much cares either way what the outcome is she just thinks the evidence points to Knox's guilt.

Barbie reports on things that happen in Italy. her beat is Italy, even her food book appears to be centered on Italy.

here's a link to Candace Dempsey that seems to indicate she offers instruction on food writing http://www.writers.com/dempsey.html

Barbie strikes me as pretty fair/reasonable as well.

FYI--I got a response from her after Amanda was released on acquittal when I had asked her if she thought Amanda was guilty or innocent and she said she thought it was 50-50 (done via twitter, she later deleted it for some reason)

 

[acbytesla]

I don't think it matters who actually houses the information. You can either get it from IIP or from some site run by someone named (I think) Peggy Ganong, a housewife who does transcription. Why does it matter as long as it is real information? Unfortunately the Perugia court house does not have the information available on a website for all to see.

And Mignini DID say it was about a satanic ritual and he is a liar.

Be careful with that.. Old Machiavelli would come stomping in here and say that Mignini didin't say that. If we are to be totally factual. Mignini said it “was premeditated and was in addition a ‘rite’ celebrated on the occasion of the night of Halloween. A sexual and sacrificial rite...In the intention of the organisers, the rite should have occurred 24 hours earlier” – on Halloween itself – “but on account of a dinner at the house of horrors, organised by Meredith and Amanda’s Italian flatmates, it was postponed for one day. The presumed assassins contented themselves with the evening of 1 November to perform their do-it-yourself rite, when for some hours it would again be the night of All Saints.”

So while I would agree with you, there are others who might quibble over these details and Mignini himself might sue you as he does with so many other people. LOL

 

[yimyammer]

the balcony window on the other side of the house. the house had been broken into twice before via that window.

Thx, It was my understanding that this window had security bars on it at the time of the crime. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

 

[Grinder]

You know, I truly believe Toto did see them there as he has said, but one thing that does bother me, there must have been others there as well, who could say they saw them or saw no one, why didn't anyone else come forward. Once the murder was known, anyone who had been near there would know they were near the place where the English student was murdered, you would think someone would have come forward, but no one did.

I think my the time he testified he believed he had seen them. He wasn't just homeless he was high on heroin when he "saw" them and for the 300 days between "seeing" them and being talked into going to the police by a cub reporter. He didn't remember the scene correctly. He apparently testified in two other serious cases. (Just a story about a crack addled woman that testified in multiple cases that are under review here in the US). The prosecution didn't bring out his 2003 arrest for heroin dealing. His original times were from 9:30 to near midnight and were only altered under the guidance of Mignini.

The original TOD was earlier but needed shifting because of Curatolo and Nara. He has them there so fast after leaving their house, there is no time for them to have done anything. If they ran back and forth it would have been when the tow truck and car were there. PG would be better off admitting he was stoned and had no idea.

 

[Bill Williams]

Barbie strikes me as pretty fair/reasonable as well.

FYI--I got a response from her after Amanda was released on acquittal when I had asked her if she thought Amanda was guilty or innocent and she said she thought it was 50-50 (done via twitter, she later deleted it for some reason)

Barbie Nadeau was on CNN on the night of the conviction in Dec 2009, and was asked what the reason for the conviction was. She said, that the prosecution case was weak but that the defence's cases were weaker and unorganized. Her last comment was, "This could very well be overturned at appeal."

In the years since she's tried to nibble away at inconsistencies and always shying away from hard forensics. She still wonders why Knox and Sollecito turned off their cell phones.

She did have the decency to change the title of her horrid book, eliminating the words "Student Killer". But she seemed fascinated by the sexually charged nature of the student town.

She never mentions Mignini. She knows she has to work in Italy.