Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[bri1]

Saul Kassin is a bubble gum psychologist. there is no evidence of a false confession in this case. there is no reason why the police would want to frame some bimbo college girl or want to accuse Patrick, who they didn't even know. you keep talking about logic while being very illogical and believing everything Knox says no matter how nutty.

I'm a qualified philosopher. We can get into logic if you want?!
And again, you can't just dismiss Kassin as 'bubble-gum'. You'll have to actually specify where you think he goes wrong in his work, otherwise his results stand.

 

[anglolawyer]

You mean the stupid technical reason that no actual weighing device was used? Yes, that's the one.

Just as I thought.

1. Wrong jurisdiction.
2. I've already got 3 QCs on my side.

Rolfe.

In that case I had better leave you to go about your business

 

[DrTesla]

She had the same alibi as Filomena, except that they did not arrest Filomena's alibi like they did Knox's.

Both Knox and Filomena were key holders and both had the same story. All the police needed was one who would buckle and tell the cops what they knew already, so they chose the youngest and the one who did not speak the language.

filomena had people who backed up where she said she was that night, as well as other evidence that backed up. If i'm not mistaken, she wasn't even in town that weekend b/c it was a holiday. the fact is Knox knew she had the opportunity to do this to Meridith that weekend b/c the other two roommates were going to be away as well as the guys who lived downstairs.

Knox's alibi was her boyfriend, who was also accused of the murder, who recanted his alibi for her and even called it a "pack of lies". there was also no proof that he was at his computer all night, his computer usage records did not back that up. it should be noted that his original alibi was he was a party with Knox with some friends but he retracted that after considering there would be nobody to support it. who gets confused about if they were at a party or home on the computer all night? Somebody who is guilty, I'd say.

 

[DrTesla]

I'm a qualified philosopher. We can get into logic if you want?!
And again, you can't just dismiss Kassin as 'bubble-gum'. You'll have to actually specify where you think he goes wrong in his work, otherwise his results stand.

I'm getting tired of people saying "I'm a lawyer" or "I'm a psychologist" as though that is a logical argument. It's a lame appeal to authority argument that is the worse sort of debate trick.

if we are going to talk about psychology, explain to me the psychology of rudy in choosing to hassle himself to climb up to this high window twice all within sight of the main road when there was a path of less reistance available on the other side of the house that he would have been aware of b/c it was closer to his druggie friend's front door.

 

[DrTesla]

hey guys, I have posted a review of Knox's book on Amazon. I think you will enjoy it, I included some of my favorite and original jokes about Knox.

please check it out when you get some free time and add your comments. right now I have about 1 out of every 5 people liking my review which is pretty good considering the Knox PR people monitor the website and attack every negative reviewer.

 

[DrTesla]

You know, I'm quite appalled by the casual racism inherent in this and a number of other related posts.

Rolfe.

lol, just consider the racial polarization over the Trayvon Martin shooting. The shooter in that case is Hispanic not a "white guy" and people wanted to string him up without a trial on the assumption it was a hate crime.

I can't see a black guy being found guilty of murder but the two rich white people being found innocent in the States without a lot of political pushback. YOu know AL Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would have been all over Amanda Knox if this happened in the States. This isn't debatable.

 

[anglolawyer]

hey guys, I have posted a review of Knox's book on Amazon. I think you will enjoy it, I included some of my favorite and original jokes about Knox.

please check it out when you get some free time and add your comments. right now I have about 1 out of every 5 people liking my review which is pretty good considering the Knox PR people monitor the website and attack every negative reviewer.

I am amazed to find I am not in the least interested in your review. Have you come up with an answer to my question about where Curatolo fits into your timeline? To remind you, you have Rudy Raf and Amanda showing up at 10 p.m. Meredith's arrival has been put back to 9. Still going with that?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

hey guys, I have posted a review of Knox's book on Amazon. I think you will enjoy it, I included some of my favorite and original jokes about Knox.

please check it out when you get some free time and add your comments. right now I have about 1 out of every 5 people liking my review which is pretty good considering the Knox PR people monitor the website and attack every negative reviewer.

You read that book, I'm ashamed to say I bought it but I'm on page 143 and can't get going, I've been on page 143 since May 1st, I bought it on the 30th. I've used a yellow highlighter to highlight the parts were she is lying. I need to go out and by more highlighters.

 

[Rolfe]

lol, just consider the racial polarization over the Trayvon Martin shooting. The shooter in that case is Hispanic not a "white guy" and people wanted to string him up without a trial on the assumption it was a hate crime.

I can't see a black guy being found guilty of murder but the two rich white people being found innocent in the States without a lot of political pushback. YOu know AL Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would have been all over Amanda Knox if this happened in the States. This isn't debatable.

I frequently have cause to thank the Almighty that He did not see fit to have me born an American. This is one of these times.

Remind me again what relevance US racism has to a crime and trial that took place in Italy?

Rolfe.

 

[DrTesla]

I am amazed to find I am not in the least interested in your review. Have you come up with an answer to my question about where Curatolo fits into your timeline? To remind you, you have Rudy Raf and Amanda showing up at 10 p.m. Meredith's arrival has been put back to 9. Still going with that?

you should check it out. I did a pretty good job with the satire despite not being a professional writer and good with words in general.

yeah, Curatoloa testified he saw them the first time around 9.45, then he saw them later that night, arguing with each other, and they would look down at the house below (checking to see if the police had been notified b/c of the victim's screams)

you had two different witnesses in the area testify they hard a blooding curling scream of a woman in the 11 o clock hour. then they heard the footsteps of a group of people running on some stairs.

i'd say the murder happened in the 11 o clock hour. I also pointed out that Raf had usage on his computer up unto 9.10 that night so it doesn't seem likely Meridith was dead by 9.30 which is what I think you and others have claimed.

 

[Bill Williams]

Saul Kassin is a bubble gum psychologist. there is no evidence of a false confession in this case. there is no reason why the police would want to frame some bimbo college girl or want to accuse Patrick, who they didn't even know. you keep talking about logic while being very illogical and believing everything Knox says no matter how nutty.

You lost me at "bubble gum".

There actually is evidence. There was a rush to get Knox locked up before her mother arrived and who may have insisted that her rights be seen to. The first judge in the case admitted as such.

I mean, it may be right, it may be wrong - but there at least is evidence that there was a rush to judgement.

Dr. Tesla - are you ever going to explain what use a table lamp would be in a forensic clean-up? Talk about lack of evidence....

 

[DrTesla]

You lost me at "bubble gum".

There actually is evidence. There was a rush to get Knox locked up before her mother arrived and who may have insisted that her rights be seen to. The first judge in the case admitted as such.

I mean, it may be right, it may be wrong - but there at least is evidence that there was a rush to judgement.

Dr. Tesla - are you ever going to explain what use a table lamp would be in a forensic clean-up? Talk about lack of evidence....

Knox used the lamp to examine the floor and the rest of the bedroom for any traces of herself, like bloody footprints, bloody handprints, maybe one of her ear piercings came out, etc. Duh.

why would the lamp be on the floor of the room if it wasn't related to the murder. why would gu-ede put it there?

 

[yimyammer]

You mean the stupid technical reason that no actual weighing device was used? Yes, that's the one.

Just as I thought.

Can you guys elaborate on your apparent disagreement? Was it weighed or not?

 

[Bill Williams]

filomena had people who backed up where she said she was that night, as well as other evidence that backed up. If i'm not mistaken, she wasn't even in town that weekend b/c it was a holiday. the fact is Knox knew she had the opportunity to do this to Meridith that weekend b/c the other two roommates were going to be away as well as the guys who lived downstairs.

Knox's alibi was her boyfriend, who was also accused of the murder, who recanted his alibi for her and even called it a "pack of lies". there was also no proof that he was at his computer all night, his computer usage records did not back that up. it should be noted that his original alibi was he was a party with Knox with some friends but he retracted that after considering there would be nobody to support it. who gets confused about if they were at a party or home on the computer all night? Somebody who is guilty, I'd say.

Raffaele was accused probably because he wore similar Nike's to the print found in the murder room. They threatened to kill Raffaele in his interrogation. He turned on Knox, and then recanted it all when he figured out she couldn't have left the apartment without his knowledge.

Oh, and by the way, the Nike prints came back as a match for Rudy's shoes, not Raffaele's. Still they held Raffaele for 46 days with nothing pointing to him, nothing at all except that he was Amanda's alibi.

You need to explain why Raffaele would hold to being Amanda's alibi at the risk of 25 years in jail. The only attempt I've seen in explaining that was speculation that Raffaele was afraid that Knox might similarly turn on him. Yea, like Raffaele would be afraid of that, given that few knew his name and Amanda was the most public woman in Italy for 2008.

As for Filomena, you need to name the "people" you claim above, as well as "evidence that back up". Once again, you simply assert something while not offering the evidence.

And you are mistaken about Filomena's whereabouts. When Amanda told her about the strange things going on at the cottage, Filomena was able to be there for the body discovery.

You really should come up to speed with this case.

 

[Grinder]

The lamp might be of some interest if Amanda's room was at the other end of the house. Whoever moved the lamp took it from the most convenient location.

If Nara heard a bloodcurdling scream of such a horrific nature she had never heard before why didn't she report it to the police immediately, the next day, the next week or even the next month? Because, she didn't hear anything.

 

[Bill Williams]

Knox used the lamp to examine the floor and the rest of the bedroom for any traces of herself, like bloody footprints, bloody handprints, maybe one of her ear piercings came out, etc. Duh.

why would the lamp be on the floor of the room if it wasn't related to the murder. why would gu-ede put it there?

Or better still, why would the Scientific Police put it there?

But you've missed the point. There was a full set of Guede's forensics including DNA and fingerprints. Can you explain how anyone could remove their own fingerprints or even discern their own finger or handprints from someone else's?

And then we'll move on to the DNA - so answer about prints first and then I'll ask again about how a table lamp is useful for erasing someone's DNA from a scene while leaving a third person's intact. The lamp has to not only see DNA, it has to discern whose is whose.

 

[acbytesla]

This is for Grinder, I wrote it a few days ago, but for some reason I couldn't connect and then it seems as if nobody could connect. Anyway, this one is for you Grinder.

Yet that wasn't the point. You said there was no evidence of staging, but when asked what that evidence could be you finally answer that you see no motive.

There is no evidence of staging. As you said, a good staging would look like a real burglary...so what clue is there to go on that leads me to speculate the break in was staged? When I allow myself to speculate staging, I am stopped by the lack of motive.

Then I must ask myself why the police speculated that this crime scene was staged? Which I'm convinced started at the beginning with the police declaring before Meredith's body was discovered after the fact that no valuables were stolen. It became re-enforced when police began to suspect Patrick Lumumba as he certainly couldn't or wouldn't have climbed that wall.

So they thought it was staged from the first minute because they "needed" it staged because otherwise they would have no suspects?

Not from the first minute. At first they said "this is no burglary" based on the height of the window broken into and the lack of valuables taken but I don't believe they jumped to the idea that there was staging for a few days..probably after they saw Patrick Lumumba talking to Amanda at the University of Foreign Students.

Why would he take them at all. Please don't tell me that he feared Meredith could still use them as the PGP speculate. Where did he toss the credit cards? What happened to the make-up?

Who knows? and who knows? Do you think Rudy was thinking straight minutes after the murder. As for the makeup, you do know that killers sometimes take trophies from their victims? Not that I understand this at all.

The first days the police thought it was done by someone she knew and they thought she might have met him on Halloween night. Meredith seems like the kind of person that would not blab. Funny that you are using the exact line of thought I've given to Rudi; that she would have told her friends he was coming over. By the way do we have any history of Rudi emailing or texting anyone?

And why did they speculate that Grinder? The police declared this as "case closed" within a week. Mignini also thought it was Sexual Sacrificial Rite performed on Halloween. Do you think the Perugian authorities have a clue?
Isn't it actually more likely that this is a small town police force that is inept and lacking the skill to perform a proper investigation?

As for Rudi not emailing or texting or calling anyone, do you think he has never had a phone or a computer? How about the Skype call to his friend? Do you think Rudy "hooks up" with that many strangers? The fact that he is "unreachable" unless you can meet him totally by chance means that his "circle of friends" and acquaintance is very small. Outside of people that may have known him while he might have had a phone, he has nobody. I think it is telling that he doesn't even know the name of the "Spanish girl" that threw the Halloween party where he says he arranged a date with Meredith. But I'm pretty sure that no one saw him at the party with Meredith or even him being there at all.

I don't think conspiracy murder is something you do with strangers or people you just met. Not having any relationship with Amanda and Raffaele or not having any electronic links is significant as Amanda, Raffaele, Meredith were in constant contact with friends via texts and calls. Rudy says he's been with lots of girls...who? Did any of them testify for him during his trial? My guess is that Rudy is a pathetic loser and he never talked to Meredith on Halloween or at the Pub. Rudy was only a "basketball" friend to even the boys downstairs. I was under the impression that they didn't even know his real name just his nickname "the baron".

So now your saying the staging theory was needed later after they had PL. Do you have evidence that Rudi could easily dunk? I think he is only 5' 9"

I'm saying the staging theory becomes essential if the suspects are key holders. I don't think the Police would believe that PL is a second story burglar so if he is a suspect, he has to get into the house and Amanda being her employee means that Amanda probably let him into the house. And I believe he became a suspect early because of Amanda's text and the fact that PL was suspiciously seen at the University speaking to Amanda.

Rudy was 5'10 and a half. I'm pretty sure the dunking part came out of Candace's Book "Murder in Italy". But I didn't buy that book, only checked it out of the library so I can't verify at the moment. We do know that he was an exceptional basketball player.

 

[yimyammer]

You mean the stupid technical reason that no actual weighing device was used? Yes, that's the one.

Just as I thought.

Can you guys elaborate on your apparent disagreement? Was it weighed or not?

 

[DrTesla]

Raffaele was accused probably because he wore similar Nike's to the print found in the murder room. They threatened to kill Raffaele in his interrogation. He turned on Knox, and then recanted it all when he figured out she couldn't have left the apartment without his knowledge.

Oh, and by the way, the Nike prints came back as a match for Rudy's shoes, not Raffaele's. Still they held Raffaele for 46 days with nothing pointing to him, nothing at all except that he was Amanda's alibi.

You need to explain why Raffaele would hold to being Amanda's alibi at the risk of 25 years in jail. The only attempt I've seen in explaining that was speculation that Raffaele was afraid that Knox might similarly turn on him. Yea, like Raffaele would be afraid of that, given that few knew his name and Amanda was the most public woman in Italy for 2008.

As for Filomena, you need to name the "people" you claim above, as well as "evidence that back up". Once again, you simply assert something while not offering the evidence.

And you are mistaken about Filomena's whereabouts. When Amanda told her about the strange things going on at the cottage, Filomena was able to be there for the body discovery.

You really should come up to speed with this case.

Bill, let me make sure I understand you. Are you trying to make the case Filomena did it in the bedroom with the knife? LOL that's original, at least.

Oh by the way, I noticed that you mentioned me countering your list about Massi on Injustice website.

Again, Massie explicating argued that the "science" as you call it proved there were mulitiple attackers. it was based on the lack of defensive wounds to the victim's body that indicates she was unable to fight at all and given the fact rudy is a very small man of 160 lbs she would have been able to put up some kind of fight. also he talks about at least two different knives been used and the cuts came from different angles and this to proves multiple attackers no a lone wolf killer. You are trying to split a hair that can't be split. could you at least detail what you mean by science, b/c it does seem like you are trying to be Bill Clinton slick here.

 

[DrTesla]

Or better still, why would the Scientific Police put it there?

But you've missed the point. There was a full set of Guede's forensics including DNA and fingerprints. Can you explain how anyone could remove their own fingerprints or even discern their own finger or handprints from someone else's?

And then we'll move on to the DNA - so answer about prints first and then I'll ask again about how a table lamp is useful for erasing someone's DNA from a scene while leaving a third person's intact. The lamp has to not only see DNA, it has to discern whose is whose.

no fingerprints were found at the cottage, not Knox or any of the roomates even (which indicates a cleanup I would think). I think they found his bloody handprint on a pillowcase.

how do you explain no rudy DNA or trace in fiol's bedroom or on the exterior of the house? I would think there would a lot of opportunity for DNA to be rubbed off in a climb into a window w/ broke glass no less.

they didn't erase all the DNA, and keep in mind there wasn't even that much of Rudy's DNA in the bedroom. it wasn't all over the place as you claim. DNA removal requires some kind of pressure or rubbing action and if Knox and Raff's main role was to brandish the knifes and stab the victim then there was much less opportunity for their DNA to be dislocated into the bedroom. also, the police never tested the victim's blood for the other's DNA b/c there was so much of her blood in the room and it just wasn't feasible to test such a large volume of blood.

I think to aruge the Police put it the lamp there is absurd. they would have their own specialized lighting for use in a crime scene and wouldn't rely on some cheap lamp of Amanda's. unless you are trying to claim they tried to frame Knox, which wouldn't surprise me?