Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[acbytesla]

so DNA on the bra clasp isn't evidence? you say there was no DNA evidence but then conviently dismiss the DNA evidence found in the room, right? how did raff's DNA get on the bra clasp? did it fly in there on a windy night?

i'd say the knife matches if it has victim blood on the blade. show me a logical reason why her blood is on the knife? just more unlucky contamination? why did raff try to get out in front of this with his false story about pricking the victim with the knife while cooking?

at some point you know you are spinning. join me on the side of truth, you'll feel better.

The DNA on the bra clasp was not a full DNA profile, it was the halotype that matched Raffaele, there were also the halotypes of 4 other male contributors on the bra clasp. Clearly there was contamination. So yes you have nothing.

The knife didn't have any blood on it. It was tested for blood by Stefanoni and Conti and Vechiottio NO ONE FOUND ANY BLOOD ON THE KNIFE. NO ONE. It is argued by the prosecution that Meredith's DNA was found on the knife. However, no one can confirm that there was DNA on either the knife or the bra clasp EVER.

But even if Meredith's DNA was on the blade, the amount was so small, that it is just as likely to have come from some kind of secondary transfer, either in the lab, or by exfoliated skin cells transferred from Meredith to Amanda.

 

[DrTesla]

You can get bounced here just as quickly. In fact, quicker. Be careful, For example you called me stupid. That will get you bounced here.

well, I probably should read the forum rules. most comment boards don't care about cursing and I didn't even spell the words out.

 

[acbytesla]

well, I probably should read the forum rules. most comment boards don't care about cursing and I didn't even spell the words out.

You should and they won't hesitate either.

 

[DrTesla]

Ever heard of or seen Malibu, CA? Pepperdine overlooks it. I used to pass it ever week or so when I was stationed out there, beautiful area and he had a nice cushy retirement job. RWVWL (the surfer dude ) could probably tell you more what it's like now.

Steve Moore gave that up instead of giving up on campaigning for Raffaele and Amanda's innocence. Pepperdine ended up paying a nice out of court settlement for making asinine decisions on the basis of loonies and kooks bombarding their e-mail boxes and giving him that ultimatum.

pepperdine fired him b/c they didn't want to be associated with a side in that murder trial and they asked him to stop speaking about it while employed by them and they refused. most employers will have policies like this.

In my view, he comes across as one of these typical attention seeking people who fax Fox News and CNN in hopes of getting on tv to discuss something. I think he exaggerates his fbi experience and he clearly isn't a logical thinker if he thinks Knox is innocent.

 

[DrTesla]

The DNA on the bra clasp was not a full DNA profile, it was the halotype that matched Raffaele, there were also the halotypes of 4 other male contributors on the bra clasp. Clearly there was contamination. So yes you have nothing.

The knife didn't have any blood on it. It was tested for blood by Stefanoni and Conti and Vechiottio NO ONE FOUND ANY BLOOD ON THE KNIFE. NO ONE. It is argued by the prosecution that Meredith's DNA was found on the knife. However, no one can confirm that there was DNA on either the knife or the bra clasp EVER.

But even if Meredith's DNA was on the blade, the amount was so small, that it is just as likely to have come from some kind of secondary transfer, either in the lab, or by exfoliated skin cells transferred from Meredith to Amanda.

ok, you are going to deny or seek to minimize all the forensic evidence against Knox. that's why I prefer to stick to the circumstantial evidence b/c I think it's hard for you to do that. like her 3 am phone call to her mother the night of the murder, she had never called her mother before in the middle of the night before while in Italy and she claimed in court not to remember why she would wake up her mother at night. her mother was later surprised to learn her daughter had called before the body had been discovered by police in a state of panic over it.

 

[Kaosium]

pepperdine fired him b/c they didn't want to be associated with a side in that murder trial and they asked him to stop speaking about it while employed by them and they refused. most employers will have policies like this.

Their poor decision ended up costing them a wad of money and Steve Moore found himself a new career doing even more interesting things. I think the kiddies call that an 'epic fail' on the part of the e-mail bombarding bunnies!

In my view, he comes across as one of these typical attention seeking people who fax Fox News and CNN in hopes of getting on tv to discuss something. I think he exaggerates his fbi experience and he clearly isn't a logical thinker if he thinks Knox is innocent.

Logic, science and common sense all scream to the high heavens that Amanda and Raffaele had nothing to do with Rudy's murder.

 

[anglolawyer]

many murder cases there is no DNA left behind. We don't shed DNA like the Knox supporters seem to argue. there does have to be some rubbing action.

did rudy take some tweezers and remove all his dna from the window and the room he came in trhough the window? Cuz none of his DNA was in there but you guys don't think that is curious at all or proof the break-in was staged, right?

You guys aren't going to win a debate with me. I'm unrelently logical.

Yet you cannot spell (or conceptualise correctly): 'unrelentingly'

We know for a fact she brought the lamp into the room because it's depicted in the €182,000 cartoon. You should make that point to Acbytesla, who evidently knows nothing about the lamp.

There was a thread at IA concerning Scott Peterson featuring an extended debate between 'beebee' and 'geebee'. Something about a discussion between two Tesla fans reminds me of it.

 

[Kaosium]

well, I probably should read the forum rules. most comment boards don't care about cursing and I didn't even spell the words out.

Don't use asterisks or try to hide it in any way, just spell it out and if the autocensor detects a word not allowed it will automatically mask it. Trying to hide it will get you moderated.

What do you think is the best evidence in your mind that Raffaele and Amanda are guilty, and what do you think them guilty of?

 

[Katody Matrass]

I'm attaching a photo of the print that was found directly outside the door.

It's possible to say that Guede walked from Meredith's room toward the kitchen with blood on his left shoe. There's a cluster of faint shoe prints in the kitchen/common area, suggesting that he did something other than proceed directly to the exit. Exactly what is anyone's guess. I could argue that X, which supports my theory, is more probable than Y, which supports someone else's theory. But it's all BS. The big picture, as told by the totality of the evidence at the crime scene, is clear:

- He broke into the place.
- He attacked Meredith when she arrived home.
- He performed some kind of sexual assault after he cut her throat.
- He cleaned himself up in the bathroom.
- He went through her purse.
- He locked her bedroom door.
- He fled the scene.

Every element of the crime scene supports that scenario. But the crime scene does not resolve every last detail.

Curiously the photo you posted looks very much like a right shoe print pointing towards the door.

Looking through other photos inside Meredith's room there are some partial shoe prints that didn't get their own evidence marker.

It's obvious that not every single Guede's step have been documented.

 

[anglolawyer]

I know how to remove an unwilling female's clothes single-handed without any struggle, or defensive or offensive injuries: hold a knife to her throat and say: 'take your clothes off'. Probably works with guys too, if you bat that way. Not fool proof but so what? It's not what happened in this case IMO but it answers those who think the sexual assault preceded the physical one.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Curiously the photo you posted looks very much like a right shoe print pointing towards the door.

Looking through other photos inside Meredith's room there are some partial shoe prints that didn't get their own evidence marker.

It's obvious that not every single Guede's step have been documented.

It's his left shoe angled away from the room and toward the kitchen/common area. You can tell because the concentric rings are centered on the instep with that model of shoe.

I think he easily might have planted his foot there when he locked the door. And he might have gone back to her room after he left the prints. It's impossible to draw meaningful conclusions at that level of detail.

We're up against critics who have no interest in the broad story told by the evidence in this case. We have it worked out. They don't even try to work it out. Instead they apply rigid thinking to specific data points to sustain their belief that "something else happened." This is what the truthers and the JFK people do.

 

[Kaosium]

ok, you are going to deny or seek to minimize all the forensic evidence against Knox.

Oh, I'm not minimizing or 'denying' anything! I'd like to shout to the assembled multitudes that 'evidence' and what it entails. The more forensic specialists who look at it the better. If anyone could ever get their hands on those EDFs that Stefanoni kept hidden even after a direct order from Hellmann there might be even more people outside Napoleoni (head of homocide and the one who ran the interrogation at first) Lugarini (the thugette who also bullied Amanda into incoherence) and Profazio (the head of the Flying Squad and the one who pronounced “Il caso è chiuso.") in legal trouble in Italy. Did all three get suspended or how did that work? I didn't spend much time on the case since the acquittal and just came across it in passing. They're all bad little piggies and need to be baconized as far as I'm concerned, and having more people--especially those in official positions--see that 'evidence' means they'll get their pork rinding sooner!

that's why I prefer to stick to the circumstantial evidence b/c I think it's hard for you to do that. like her 3 am phone call to her mother the night of the murder, she had never called her mother before in the middle of the night before while in Italy and she claimed in court not to remember why she would wake up her mother at night. her mother was later surprised to learn her daughter had called before the body had been discovered by police in a state of panic over it.

So let's see here, how many calls did Amanda make in that time from the first time she went back to the cottage until the postal police showed up? Someone posted it recently, it was like seven or so. To Raffaele, her mother, Filomena, Meredith...and you think it odd that two years later she can't remember each and every distinct phone call? What would it matter if she couldn't?

 

[jhunter1163]

As moderator, and for the benefit of our new poster:

This forum does have a civility rule, and it is enforced rather more strictly in this thread than elsewhere. There's also a rule which says "Address the argument, not the arguer". You don't have to be pro-Knox to post here, but you do have to be civil and polite. If you don't make editorial comments like "you are an idiot", or use sophistry to insult groups of people here like "people who believe Amanda Knox is innocent are idiots", you should be OK.

Here endeth the lesson.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

ok, you are going to deny or seek to minimize all the forensic evidence against Knox. that's why I prefer to stick to the circumstantial evidence b/c I think it's hard for you to do that. like her 3 am phone call to her mother the night of the murder, she had never called her mother before in the middle of the night before while in Italy and she claimed in court not to remember why she would wake up her mother at night. her mother was later surprised to learn her daughter had called before the body had been discovered by police in a state of panic over it.

That sounds very interesting. What is your source for this claim?

Was it in the Massei report?

 

[bookworm]

Well, let's see then, go ahead and explain to me Rudi's first foot print left in blood leading out of Meredith's door, you of course must believe he locked that door with his back to it - please explain this to me, I know Mary locks all her doors like this all the time, but do you believe this as well, I'm curious.

I can try to explain this. He walked to the front door, tracking blood, found that the door was locked and couldn't be opened without the key. Went back to the bedroom, found the keys, without stepping in any blood this time. Locked the door, opened the front door and left.

 

[bookworm]

Me too, the case seems to always be discussed in extremes where neither side is able to concede anything which IMO stifles discussion and makes the truth harder to divine.

I think for a lot of people, this case is no longer about whether AK (et al) is guilty or innocent, its about being right, winning and belittling and humiliating anyone who dares to disagree with their conclusion on the matter.

I haven't been posting here long, but from what I've seen so far, things seem pretty civil here and I haven't noticed anyone being "mean" to you. Do you feel the recent discussion has been unfair and mean toward you specifically?

The problem I always see with the discussions of this case is that when someone posts backup and cites to show their argument is correct, the other side doesn't EVER seem to consider that information, alter view and move forward from there. Any proof of a point seems to be totally disregarded. It's like people are standing in a corner with their fingers in their ears shouting.

 

[Skind]

her mother was later surprised to learn her daughter had called before the body had been discovered by police in a state of panic over it.

Oh, the answer to this one is quite easy: we're not stupid. Had this happened, it would have been quite clear cut evidence that Knox knew something, and the people here would gladly accept that maybe Knox was guilty.

But it didn't happen.

What happened what that Knox phoned her mother whilst spooked- the same reason she phoned Filomena, why Raff phoned his sister and why they eventually phoned the police. No mention of any body, none. The content of the call was entirely consistent with what you'd expect - a young woman calling her mother for reassurance and advice.

 

[anglolawyer]

Why didn't Rudy burgle the downstairs apartment instead of the girls'?

 

[Grinder]

I get the feeling you both might be trying to say the same thing, perhaps you can use the chart below to help clear things up by referring to A, B, C or D instead of trying to describe what you're visualizing in your heads?

[qimg]http://imageshack.us/a/img856/8799/footmu.jpg[/qimg]

Thanks for the effort. If that's the position of the print it is not going straight out of Meredith's room and isn't at a 90 degree angle to Meredith's door but rather is parallel to the door. When one car T-bones another it hits the other car at a 90 degree angle. That print would be coming straight out of the bathroom.

I am not questioning that you have represented the foot correctly or not.

If the PGP long standing issue with the door is as represented, it is just another crazy point of theirs. No matter what I think Rudi came back after wearing the blood off his shoes.

 

[Grinder]

Why didn't Rudy burgle the downstairs apartment instead of the girls'?

It was next? They had bars on the windows? They didn't have make-up to steal? Their toilet was messy?