Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[acbytesla]

CNN's Chris Cuomo addresses the avalanche of feedback he's received about his interview with Amanda Knox.



For my money at the end of the day he agrees that Knox is innocent. He said that weird behaviour is no way to solve a crime, and that all the sexualized stuff about Knox brought by the prosecution actually had no evidence to support it - it was just that, asserted. (Heck, even Judge Massei, the convicting judge, rejected all the prosecution's theories of motive, etc.)

I notice it didn't bother him to focus so much on Amanda's sex life during the interview though. Cuomo was no better than Mignini with his questions.

 

[acbytesla]

It is possible that they got together over a small drug buy by Amanda from Rudi. She knew well enough to buy a small quantity of something from him and meet him at the cottage. She might have been hesitant to bring any man to Raf's place as he was a bit possessive.

Do you just throw stuff like this at the wall to see if it sticks? 1. Amanda could obtain marijuana from the boys downstairs. Laura, Filomena and Meredith all smoked grass. She didn't need to go looking for other sources. There is no evidence at all that Amanda or any of the roommates met with Rudy to buy drugs.
2. Amanda had been dating Raffaele for ONLY one week, there is also no evidence that Raffaele was a bit possessive or that Amanda was hesitant to bring any man to Raf's place because of this reason.

 

[acbytesla]

I might be old fashioned in this respect but in determing guilt or innocence I believe you must look at the evidence objectively and rationally without allowing emotion to get in the way. Do you feel that this did not happen in this case? Do you feel that a climate of hysteria was created in this case? Do you feel the demonisation of Amanda built up so much hatred against Amanda that a hysterical lynch mob mentality took over where people could not think rationally about the facts of the case which led to people believing Amanda was guilty despite the very weak evidence against her? Does this explain how the guilter movement was created. Do you feel that so much hatred has been built up against Amanda, the hate would not die out even if Meredith turned up alive.

^{I was arguing with a guilter on Amazon reviews and he liked to use the argument that Amanda and Raffaele must be guilty because people thought they were guilty. Do you feel that under the right circumstances people may believe that someone is guilty of a crime regardless of how weak the evidence is?}

OF course. We see it all the time and not just on this case.

 

[Grinder]

Do you just throw stuff like this at the wall to see if it sticks? 1. Amanda could obtain marijuana from the boys downstairs. Laura, Filomena and Meredith all smoked grass. She didn't need to go looking for other sources. There is no evidence at all that Amanda or any of the roommates met with Rudy to buy drugs.
2. Amanda had been dating Raffaele for ONLY one week, there is also no evidence that Raffaele was a bit possessive or that Amanda was hesitant to bring any man to Raf's place because of this reason.

First of all I was responding to:

Originally Posted by yimyammer
On that note, in the interviews I've seen, its one thing I feel like she should be screaming at the top of her lungs----> that she didn't even know Rudy (beyond quick introductions and being in the same room at a couple of occasions) and neither did Raf, so the idea that the three of them spontaneously got together in the short amount of time they had between discovering they were free for the evening and the time of the murder and committed this crime is ludicrous.

The boys were out of town and may not have the quality stuff. The two Italian girls were out of town and Meredith didn't own pot she just smoked it occasionally.

I went on to say that I found the idea that the three of them organizing the murder absurd. I find it disingenuous to deny possibilities and it is possible that she bumped into Rudi that evening and arranged a small drug purchase or just a meet-up with him bringing the drugs.

Personally I don't think that happened but I see no known facts that preclude that possibility. One reason I don't believe it is that I would have expected Rudi to brag about to his friends specifically on the Skype call.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

I notice it didn't bother him to focus so much on Amanda's sex life during the interview though. Cuomo was no better than Mignini with his questions.

I suspect he's a fake guilter who did this with the idea that the public would be interested to see how Amanda handles a tough interview as opposed to a sympathetic one. She handled it well. She has nothing to hide.

BUT, the problem for someone who presents himself as a fake guilter is that he comes across as a plain old guilter, obsessed with Amanda's sexuality and seething with hostility. It's disgusting, whether it is real or feigned.

 

[acbytesla]

Hardly matters then, this case wasn't tried in the US of A. Amanda herself realizes she could be sent back, and I'm pretty sure she has brought this topic up with her lawyers.

Sherlock, there is a possibility she could get sent back to Italy. The questions about whether it would be "double jeopardy" is a fair issue. If Italy convicted her, they would have to ask the US State department to "extradite" Amanda. The US State department could reject the request for any number of reasons including "double jeopardy", but it is more likely that Knox would demand an evidentiary hearing. And given Conti and Vechiotti' report on the DNA , I think it is very likely that the request would be turned down based on that.

 

[acbytesla]

First of all I was responding to:

The boys were out of town and may not have the quality stuff. The two Italian girls were out of town and Meredith didn't own pot she just smoked it occasionally.

I went on to say that I found the idea that the three of them organizing the murder absurd. I find it disingenuous to deny possibilities and it is possible that she bumped into Rudi that evening and arranged a small drug purchase or just a meet-up with him bringing the drugs.

Personally I don't think that happened but I see no known facts that preclude that possibility. One reason I don't believe it is that I would have expected Rudi to brag about to his friends specifically on the Skype call.

I know you don't Grinder, but you are suggesting a possibility based on nothing. There is nothing leading you to your suggested possibility. You are suggesting it "as anything is possible". "I could have been a nose tackle for the Seattle Seahawks". Never mind that I'm 5 feet 7 inches tall and a 170 pounds. I mean anything is possible...right???

I'm not sure that there is any evidence that Rudy dealt drugs...and given the fact that he had no means of electronic communications capabilities it it highly doubtful that people would go to Rudy as a source.

 

[acbytesla]

I suspect he's a fake guilter who did this with the idea that the public would be interested to see how Amanda handles a tough interview as opposed to a sympathetic one. She handled it well. She has nothing to hide.

BUT, the problem for someone who presents himself as a fake guilter is that he comes across as a plain old guilter, obsessed with Amanda's sexuality and seething with hostility. It's disgusting, whether it is real or feigned.

I'm not sure it is really that Charlie. Respectfully, I think it really just plain old sensationalist journalism coupled with misogyny looking for ratings. Sex sells. And Cuomo focused on sex for ratings just as the tabloid trash does.

 

[Grinder]

Sherlock, there is a possibility she could get sent back to Italy. The questions about whether it would be "double jeopardy" is a fair issue. If Italy convicted her, they would have to ask the US State department to "extradite" Amanda. The US State department could reject the request for any number of reasons including "double jeopardy", but it is more likely that Knox would demand an evidentiary hearing. And given Conti and Vechiotti' report on the DNA , I think it is very likely that the request would be turned down based on that.

The US has precedent of accepting other countries' systems and would not look at this as double jeopardy.

If another two courts convicts her, I doubt the US would just overturn the verdict. I would guess a deal would be made and she would serve time here in a low security federal prison.

This is all so premature as the Corte Suprema di Cassazione motivations need to produced and the next trial needs to done. It will be very interesting to see how a non-Mignini prosecution is handled. It will also be interesting to see how the defense operates this time. I wonder if her book will be read into the record as Rudi's letter was.

 

[anglolawyer]

The US has precedent of accepting other countries' systems and would not look at this as double jeopardy.

If another two courts convicts her, I doubt the US would just overturn the verdict. I would guess a deal would be made and she would serve time here in a low security federal prison.

This is all so premature as the Corte Suprema di Cassazione motivations need to produced and the next trial needs to done. It will be very interesting to see how a non-Mignini prosecution is handled. It will also be interesting to see how the defense operates this time. I wonder if her book will be read into the record as Rudi's letter was.

Is it Attack Grinder Day already? Seems to come round faster all the time. I will try to think of something choice to say. Oh, I know! You should read her book. She comes right out and accuses Napoleone and Ficarra and Stefanoni of flat out lying in court. That's a game changer right there. No one need pay Grinder any notice until he reads up on the case.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Craig Murray's underutilized white charger

I don't want to divert from your ongoing discussion, but I got into a spat with this guy earlier today about something completely different, and then remembered he had written a very anti-Knox article some years ago. I went to check if he'd ever reconsidered, but it looks as if he hasn't. Does anyone have any comment?

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/12/the_white_charg/
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/10/meredith-kercher-case/

Rolfe.

Yes, I do. The only way one can believe that Ms. Knox gave a voluntary confession/accusation is not to read them for oneself. I sent the texts to Mr. Murray just now. I would like to know why he considers himself a human rights activist.
EDT
If Mr. Murray reads here and wants a link to human translations of the two statements, our own komponisto provided them here.

 

[Rolfe]

Ooooh!



Rolfe.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

The US has precedent of accepting other countries' systems and would not look at this as double jeopardy.

If another two courts convicts her, I doubt the US would just overturn the verdict. I would guess a deal would be made and she would serve time here in a low security federal prison.

Reciprocity is a keyword for those countries with extradition treaties.

This is all so premature as the Corte Suprema di Cassazione motivations need to produced and the next trial needs to done. It will be very interesting to see how a non-Mignini prosecution is handled. It will also be interesting to see how the defense operates this time. I wonder if her book will be read into the record as Rudi's letter was.

Any idea of an actual date for the publication of the motivations?

 

[Grinder]

Is it Attack Grinder Day already? Seems to come round faster all the time. I will try to think of something choice to say. Oh, I know! You should read her book. She comes right out and accuses Napoleone and Ficarra and Stefanoni of flat out lying in court. That's a game changer right there. No one need pay Grinder any notice until he reads up on the case.

No need to call yourself no one.

How would Amanda know herself that Stefanoni was lying? I certainly think she lied but from other sources.

So if convicted in another country the legal advice is to say the cops lied, therefore I must not be sent there?

 

[anglolawyer]

No need to call yourself no one.

Two points.

How would Amanda know herself that Stefanoni was lying? I certainly think she lied but from other sources.

Huh? She knows she's lying the same way we do. By looking at all the evidence.

So if convicted in another country the legal advice is to say the cops lied, therefore I must not be sent there?

Yes. Depending on the terms of the extradition treaty, you can say you won't get a fair trial. The Irish Republic used to refuse to extradite IRA suspects to the UK for this reason. By contrast, Shrien Dewani was unable to deploy this argument in resisting extradition to South Africa for the murder of his wife Anni due to the treaty arrangements we have with SA (and I know he has not been extradited yet but that's for health reasons).

 

[JREF2010]

I suspect he's a fake guilter who did this with the idea that the public would be interested to see how Amanda handles a tough interview as opposed to a sympathetic one. She handled it well. She has nothing to hide.

BUT, the problem for someone who presents himself as a fake guilter is that he comes across as a plain old guilter, obsessed with Amanda's sexuality and seething with hostility. It's disgusting, whether it is real or feigned.

I thought that too, that he was "acting" as a Guilter to drive a harder questioning interview. But it also could be due to the SC ruling of another trial, the media plan has changed and been re-written to include more prosecution perspective to the interviews. Someone posted he was an ex-prosecutor so that might have been it? Nancy Grace has a prosecution perspective that everyones guilty or shes not interested in the case. Nancy, like Cuomo, dont seem to put Rudy Guede in their words enough.


off Cuomo topic.. in relate to "what could happen in another trial, and specifically what more DNA work can be done with the knife testing?"
Is there need for concern, the prosecution having access to the knife all this time? (corruption again possibly? magical new Meredith DNA shows up on the knife, for example.) Whats your take on this "storage of evidence" ?

 

[acbytesla]

The US has precedent of accepting other countries' systems and would not look at this as double jeopardy.

If another two courts convicts her, I doubt the US would just overturn the verdict. I would guess a deal would be made and she would serve time here in a low security federal prison.

The wouldn't overturn the verdict Grinder, they would simply refuse extradition based on a lack of evidence. Extradition is requested by another country not simply accepted blindly.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Two points.


Huh? She knows she's lying the same way we do. By looking at all the evidence.



Yes. Depending on the terms of the extradition treaty, you can say you won't get a fair trial. The Irish Republic used to refuse to extradite IRA suspects to the UK for this reason. By contrast, Shrien Dewani was unable to deploy this argument in resisting extradition to South Africa for the murder of his wife Anni due to the treaty arrangements we have with SA (and I know he has not been extradited yet but that's for health reasons).

As an aside the terms of condition between the US and UK are such that a UK citizen can be extradited to stand trial in the US despite not being arrested in the UK.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-16544335

 

[anglolawyer]

As an aside the terms of condition between the US and UK are such that a UK citizen can be extradited to stand trial in the US despite not being arrested in the UK.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-16544335

Do you mean despite the offence not being recognised as a crime in the UK? I wonder whether we have the text of the US-Italian treaty somewhere. I'll go look.

 

[acbytesla]

As an aside the terms of condition between the US and UK are such that a UK citizen can be extradited to stand trial in the US despite not being arrested in the UK.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-16544335

I guess I'm not sure your point. At some point Richard O'Dwyer,would be taken into custody and extradited to the US. The simple fact that the UK did not charge him with copyright crimes is irrelevant. What is relevant is the opinion of the people of the UK about these proceedings.