• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Biblical Flood? Fish, squid, and shrimp fossils in the mountains of Lebanon and Peru

No, the marine life would all have been dead because it couldn't live in fresh water.

Alternatively, all the fresh water life would have been dead because it couldn't live in salt water.


So you believe the water that covered the earth would either be salt water or fresh water and not a mixture?


No, I do not.

There was no water of any salinity covering the Earth.

The bilge about a water-covered, billiard ball Earth is nothing but, well . . . bilge.


And there are marine life that can live in both like the well known Salmon.


Well, yes, sort of. But don't they all die?


The best example I can think of off the top of my head of a species that is currently evolving the means to live in both fresh and salt water is the Bull Shark.

Against this single example of a fairly recent adaptation I am happy to point to the approximately millions of species which would have suddenly disappeared in the event of a sudden, catastrophic and global flood which, oddly, didn't.
 
Last edited:
So you believe the water that covered the earth would either be salt water or fresh water and not a mixture?

And there are marine life that can live in both like the well known Salmon.


DOC, what do you think happens when you have a combination of 97.5% salt water and 2.5% fresh water? Would you consider that mixture to be salt, fresh, or a mixture? Do you think you would see a greater die-off of freshwater species or marine species? Do you think the fossil record would reflect this, or not?

http://www.grida.no/graphicslib/detail/total-global-saltwater-and-freshwater-estimates_39f6

You should also note that groundwater makes up roughly 31% of the earth's total freshwater reserves. Unless our understanding of the Earth's geology is completely mistaken, or unless your deity is in the habit of *poof*ing an enormous amount of freshwater into existence, then *poof*ing it back into non-existence, your question is patently absurd.

I should make it clear, I have no doubt you will pull some sort of "fountains of the deep" nonsense in here as a response to this. There is no evidence of that sort of volume being available as groundwater. There is no evidence of cavities of the size required to store such groundwater. You will have to admit that your god would have to had created such resources out of thin air (so to speak), and that there is absolutely nothing natural nor scientific about this particular flood claim. You cannot use science to substantiate this purely biblical claim.
 
Facts, the bane of religious thought.

LMAM04F.jpg
 
No, I do not.

There was no water of any salinity covering the Earth.

The bilge about a water-covered, billiard ball Earth is nothing but, well . . . bilge.





Well, yes, sort of. But don't they all die?


The best example I can think of off the top of my head of a species that is currently evolving the means to live in both fresh and salt water is the Bull Shark. Against this single example of a fairly recent adaptation I am happy to point to the approximately millions of species which would have suddenly disappeared in the event of a sudden, catastrophic and global flood which, oddly, didn't.

Well only one fish kind needed to survive, then all the rest are the adapted descendents of that one kind so the fact that the Bull Shark can live in fresh and salty water proves the flood.:covereyes
 
Well only one fish kind needed to survive, then all the rest are the adapted descendents of that one kind so the fact that the Bull Shark can live in fresh and salty water proves the flood.:covereyes

That's right, by the creationist super-duper turbo front loaded evolution with the ingredient denied to materialistic explanations - magic.
 
"Current thinking" -- that can mean anything.


Possibly, but that's mainly because current thinking, unlike Bronze Age goddidit thinking, allows for an array of possibilities that even the best of us sometimes have trouble wrapping our heads around.

For example, here is some current thinking that will represent pure, unmitigated gibberish to creationists and the bleeding obvious to anyone who can tie their own shoelaces:


​


No mention of floating zoos, sudden mass extinctions, aquaplaning continents, fountains of the deep or whoa-where-did-that-come-from mountain ranges in that video, eh, DOC?

Got it all wrong, have they?


If I'm currently thinking that Moses wrote Genesis around 1400 BC. I can truthfully say "Current thinking places Genesis around 1400 BC."


Of course you can. And you will be truthfully, unequivocally, demonstrably, undeniably and fairly comically wrong.

So?
 
Last edited:
The best example I can think of off the top of my head of a species that is currently evolving the means to live in both fresh and salt water is the Bull Shark.
LOL AND BEHOLD, BROTHERS AND SISTERS!!!!

The LORD made bullsharks in His omniscient wisdom, already knowing He would need to flood His Creation. Bullsharks then ate most of those dead animals drowned by the flood waters. Especially humans, for we know they eat humans even nowadays.

Send money.
 
So you believe the water that covered the earth would either be salt water or fresh water and not a mixture?

And there are marine life that can live in both like the well known Salmon.

DOC what do fresh water and salt water have in common?
 
That's right, by the creationist super-duper turbo front loaded evolution with the ingredient denied to materialistic explanations - magic.

"Well, you know that each Day of Creation was like a billion years or something, so the Forty Days would be forty billion years. Plenty of time for creatures to adapt."

I **** you not, that's what he said. (Distant relative, not DOC.)
 
"Well, you know that each Day of Creation was like a billion years or something, so the Forty Days would be forty billion years. Plenty of time for creatures to adapt."

I **** you not, that's what he said. (Distant relative, not DOC.)

If you are not aware of what our best understandings of the world are, the ways in which we know them, as well as the effort and often ingenious means of discovery involved, then any idea that you pluck out of your bottom can seem plausible and as good as any other.
 
Sounds like bull shark to me.
:rolleyes:
Salmon die when they return to fresh water to spawn.

Something I learned earlier, when checking just this point, that is true for some species of salmon, but not all. Still, even in the species where they don't all die, most do after returning to fresh water:
In all species of Pacific salmon, the mature individuals die within a few days or weeks of spawning, a trait known as semelparity. Between 2 and 4% of Atlantic salmon kelts survive to spawn again, all females. However, even in those species of salmon that may survive to spawn more than once (iteroparity), postspawning mortality is quite high (perhaps as high as 40 to 50%.)
 
Meh, if I had sex only once in my life that would kill me too.

No exaggeration there--it was on "1,000 Ways to Die".

Gawdzilla said:
"Well, you know that each Day of Creation was like a billion years or something, so the Forty Days would be forty billion years. Plenty of time for creatures to adapt."
So.....this guy is saying that the world is three times older than the entire universe. :boggled:
 
Not necessarily if those marine fossils we see today were already fossils when they got stirred up by the "breaking up of the fountains of the great deep" (as the bible describes). Also, remember the flood subsided after 150 days so it would have left a terrible mess of trees, animals, and human remains left out in the sun to rot and decompose. Being left out in the open like this could have caused decomposition much like the American buffalo which left few fossils in spite of numbering in the multi-millions. This mess also could have become part of the world's oil supply. Notice how for some strange reason there is an incredible amount of oil right next to Lebanon in Iraq and Saudi Arabia.

Using the logic of your argument, the same should have been true of fish, squid and shrimp remains left in now dry areas covered by the flood. Thus, these remains in the strata in Lebanon and elsewhere, again, using your argument, couldn't possibly be remains left by the retreating waters.

From the article:

The Mysterious Origin and Supply of OilKer Than

...A so-called fossil fuel, petroleum is believed by most scientists to be the transformed remains of long dead organisms. The majority of petroleum is thought to come from the fossils of plants and tiny marine organisms. Larger animals might contribute to the mix as well...

http://www.livescience.com/9404-mysterious-origin-supply-oil.html

There's nothing mysterious about it.

Also for 150 days or more marine life would have fed on the human and animal remains, so there might not have been much left; and that which was left was left exposed to the sun to decompose, and to possibly be eaten by those animals which were taken with Noah.

They wouldn't have eaten the skeletons. Also, the small numbers of animals - either one pair or seven of each kind - disembarking from the ark in what is now eastern Turkey, would not have been enough animals to have eaten the remains of all those animals, all over the earth.

Logically, if this flood happened, we would find several areas where skeletal remains of land animals are mixed with those of marine creatures.

Your dodge to explain why the remains of land animals weren't mixed with those of the fish, squid and shrimp is typical of pseudoscience. Scientific theories - or, for that matter, any intellectually honest theories - stand or fall on the rigors of pass / fail tests. In other words, if something a theory asserts is true, we would expect certain conditions to also be true. If they are not, support for the theory is weakened, and the theory itself may well be completely falsified.

For example, were we to find embedded in rock of the Cambrian strata a mammal fossil, fossilized by the same material and to the same degree a that of a trilobite embedded in the same rock; that would completely falsify evolutionary theory. Notice that I was fairly precise in what I said about the fossils. We're not talking here about possible mixing of fossils from different strata due the their being carried there by a river or a particular flood. Since the fossils would be part of the same rock, fossilized by the same minerals and fossilized to the same degree, accidental mixing as a cause would be eliminated.

Now, I'm proposing that you come up with a pass / fail test for a scientific theory of the flood, one that, should it fail will falsify flood theory, just as a mammal fossilized in Cambrian strata with trilobites would falsify evolutionary theory.
 

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom