Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[anglolawyer]

I believe that it can be shown that it is common practice to keep text messages. In a similar venue such as PMs on this site, the quotas on stored PMs exist to force deletions. This is irrelavent because Amanda testified that she typically deleted incoming texts as she read them.

CP: How did you come to decide to delete Patrick's message?

AK: I had a limited amount of space in my phone, and whenever I received a message that I didn't need to remember something for, I deleted them.

CP: Why didn't you delete your own when you answered him?

AK: Umm, I'm not used to deleting those. I just delete the ones that I receive, I believe. [The interpreter does not translate the first part of this answer.]

CP: Listen, Miss...[an interruption, someone wants her to repeat the answer to the question and hear the complete translation.]

AK: I wasn't used to deleting the ones that I sent out, but just the ones that I received. ​

I am familiar with this testimony but doubtful that it concludes the question whether she deleted the specific message from Patrick, an act of which she has no recollection and which both she and De Felice contradict elsewhere. If one takes her evidence at face value, she had no reason to preserve Meredith's Hallowe'en message either.

Another point, which LJ has made, is that in all likelihood, deleting the texts from the type of phone she had then (I am sure the make and model is on your wiki, which I shall add to my bookmarks) would have been a complicated operation where she had replied to the message, due to the cycle the phone takes the user through. Now, we know she did reply to Lumumba's message and then, so she says, she switched off the phone right away. Are we to imagine that in all the hullabaloo of the succeeding days she made a point of wading through her inbox to select unwanted messages? It's possible, of course.

One of the things that puzzles me is why the cops did not use the fact she had deleted Lumumba's text if she had in fact done so? Think about it. They are very closely focused on the exchange, they have seen it in the phone records (agreed?) and noted the suspicious timing and all the other suspicious things about Patrick (black, known to Meredith and Amanda, pinged in vicinity, in apparently covert communication with Amanda from 02-05 Nov) and finally they get to see the messages which, also suspiciously, she claims not to be able to remember. And what do they find? Only hers! She has deleted his! Come on, that's got to be dynamite hasn't it? Why has she deleted his message but not Meredith's, carefully preserved to give the false impression of friendship. Surely they could get something out of her to put on their sheet of paper. But what did they get instead? This (as posted earlier):

Last Thursday 1st November, day on which I usually work, while I was in the apartment of my boyfriend Raffaele, at about 20.30 I received a message from Patrick on my mobile, telling me that that evening the pub would remain closed because there were no people, therefore I didn’t have to go to work.
I replied to the message saying that we would meet immediately, therefore I went out telling my boyfriend that I had to go to work.

Clearly, this doesn't make any sense.

Not only that, but Mignini did not make a fuss about the deletion in front of Matteini either. How come? Surely when pushing at open door like her they should have used this grave indication of guilt. The message was so hot she had deleted it! But, they never questioned her about it and never raised it before the judge. Now, why might that be?

 

[anglolawyer]

Anglo do you know the brand and model of the phone she was using?

No.

I don't think Jackie knows poo about phones. They were rambling on about how long carriers keep the texts which we here vetted some time ago. One would think that with the steep reduction in storage costs it was less likely in the past to store the texts and since they don't store them highly unlikely they stored them back then.

Neither do I.

That's just a bone and not the full meal. Still not buying the early, early conspiracy.

I know.

Btw, if they could so easily recover the texts from phones or the carrier one would challenge Jackie to produce the texts they recovered from all the phones involved.

How would he do that?

 

[Bill Williams]

For some reason the DIane Sawyer interview is in various parts, and then there are other questions on some sites, that were supposedly edited out.
Komonews, ABC, and 20/20 all have a different edit of the interviews.

Is there one full, unedited, version of this interview anywhere?

Check the ABC website. They promised a full suite of various versions of the interview....

 

[Chris_Halkides]

a case of false confession/accusation and DNA

Quote
"All of the DNA says just the victim and one unknown male definitely not Chris Tapp," Hampikian the director of the Idaho Innocence Project said.

Hampikian says the only evidence the state has against Tapp - his confession given to police after more than 40 hours of questioning. The scientist says the convicted killer gave a false confession.

"He [Tapp] was offered a deal," Hampikian said. If Chris said he was part of this and could name the other guy, the guy who left the DNA, then he could do no time in prison. He had a complete immunity deal and as a young man it seemed like a good deal to him. He thought he could name the perpetrator and he guessed."
Endquote
More info at this blog. My point is that false confessions sometimes contain false accusations. It also sounds as if investigatory tunnel vision and withholding of evidence is a world-wide problem.

 

[anglolawyer]

By the way, I reverted to using an old Nokia 6301i dumbphone, having ditched my smart one some time ago. The model was introduced in 2002 and discontinued in 2005. I never delete my incoming texts and I don't recall an alert telling me the phone is too full to receive any more. It has a 174KB memory, whatever that means. I mention it because it predates the time we are talking about by at least two years and provides some kind of yardstick for where mobile technology was two years before the material time.

 

[Grinder]

Anglo,

So what does Amanda say about when the police first asked about what she was doing while Meredith was being murdered? What were the police talking to them about on the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th?

 

[Grinder]

How would he do that?

We'll being connected to TJMK etc. he would have access to all the records and if the police could so easily recover texts why didn't they?

Jackie attacks you for the wrong reasons and if he were right the texts of all the players would be in the record.

 

[anglolawyer]

Anglo,

So what does Amanda say about when the police first asked about what she was doing while Meredith was being murdered? What were the police talking to them about on the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th?

Haven't read that far but, on the 2nd she told an English speaking detective that she spent the afternoon, evening and night with Raffaele and was at his place the whole time from late afternoon onwards. As is confirmed by Matteini:

Knox Amanda was heard for the first time on 2 November 2007 and on that occasion said she had seen Meredith at 1pm at the apartment that the aforementioned occupied, where she found her together with her boyfriend Sollecito Raffaele, and that she saw her leave at around 1500 to 1600 but did not know where she was going,and that she stayed with Sollecito until 1700, and that they went to his apartment, where they spent the whole night.

I think we can safely assume that story did not vary before the night of 05-06 but if I encounter anything to the contrary, I will let you know. Does this mean you are not going to read the book?

 

[anglolawyer]

We'll being connected to TJMK etc. he would have access to all the records and if the police could so easily recover texts why didn't they?

Jackie attacks you for the wrong reasons and if he were right the texts of all the players would be in the record.

You mean there are right reasons?

 

[Grinder]

You mean there are right reasons?

Hey look on the bright side, I'm on your side vis-a-vis Jackie. I will not buy into the level of detail you ascribe to the PLE in the middle of night. So have them parsing in a way they not demonstrated being capable of.

I may get the kindle version but have some reasons not to get it that have nothing to do with my past resistance to buying the true crime novels filled with unnotated "facts" and quotes from a bodily part.

 

[anglolawyer]

Hey look on the bright side, I'm on your side vis-a-vis Jackie. I will not buy into the level of detail you ascribe to the PLE in the middle of night. So have them parsing in a way they not demonstrated being capable of.

I may get the kindle version but have some reasons not to get it that have nothing to do with my past resistance to buying the true crime novels filled with unnotated "facts" and quotes from a bodily part.

OK - you cheered me up. Thanks But seriously, don't you think the cops should have been all over the fact she deleted his text? I mean, that must have been very suspicious in their eyes, surely. It's a good forensic point and they were collecting those, real and imagined, for Matteini.

 

[Dan O.]

Anglo do you know the brand and model of the phone she was using?

From her MySpace blog, Amanda buys an Italian phone on her first trip to Perugia in late August. I haven't seen any further description of it though it should have been checked in as evidence and therefore the full make, model and serial number should be in the court records.

 

[bolint]

It was implied that Raffaele's phone was off because of the missed midnight text from his father. This could alternatively be interpreted as the phone being in a dead reception zone.

And somehow got into the live zone at 06:02 while their were sleeping?

 

[bolint]

Reading Amanda's book now it is quite clear that there were no other movie being watched after Amélie, neither heavy computing performed by Raffaele that night.
So the Stardust alibi, which was so weak, anyway, that it was maintained only on internet forums, along with the the computer alibi, can be laid to rest.

 

[anglolawyer]

Reading Amanda's book now it is quite clear that there were no other movie being watched after Amélie, neither heavy computing performed by Raffaele that night.
So the Stardust alibi, which was so weak, anyway, that it was maintained only on internet forums, along with the the computer alibi, can be laid to rest.

Absolutely and Curatolo saw them in the Piazza anyway so we know they were there, even though the CCTV missed them. So, it's still possible they did it and, as we know, that's all you need in Italy, right?

 

[bolint]

even though the CCTV missed them

CCTV also missed three transits of Amanda in the morning (while recording the postals three times, the carabinieri, Rudy, and even the white clothed woman the murder night).

Was she really there as she describes?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Barbie Nadeau CNN and Andrea Vogt BBC

The questions asked of Barbie are leading and biased ("give us a reality check"). f are rose fertilizer ("glossed"). She indicates that Knox and Sollecito changed stories and that their alibis were not congruent without giving specifics. Andrea Vogt discusses what she sees as contradictions in the book versus with respect to her earlier account of her interrogation. The nicest thing I can find to say is that her analysis is unconvincing. Why am I not surprised.

 

[anglolawyer]

CCTV also missed three transits of Amanda in the morning (while recording the postals three times, the carabineieri, Rudy, and even the white clothed woman the murder night).

Was she really there as she describes?

How do we know the CCTV missed her in the morning? Was it played in court?

 

[bolint]

As for deleting messages, I have a phone (from 2001) with a 10 message limit.
I really have to be selective.

 

[bolint]

How do we know the CCTV missed her in the morning? Was it played in court?

It was never mentioned by either side.
Just think of the mop and you see how hotly debated issue it would have been.