• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Brian Dunning lawsuit

BTMO said:
Like it or not, theft of this magnitude taints his message. I used to love listening to skeptoid (my wife still does I think...) - but I have trouble disassociating his admitted (he pleaded guilty to stealing millions) basic dishonesty from anything else he has to say.

While he was talking about the dishonest actions of others, he was quietly and surreptitiously stealing more money than most of us will see in a lifetime.

Hypocrisy doesn't sit well with me...
Click to expand...
This, I agree with.
 
Wolfman said:
That's another aspect, yes. However, I cannot find any reliable information indicating that his code overwrote cookies from other sites.
Click to expand...

That's how the ebay cookies work. Read the ebay complaint. They take the most recent cookie.

And you sure as hell don't have any right to tell me who I should or should not feel sympathy for, or to suggest that it is wrong for me to feel sympathy for him, or for anyone else.
Click to expand...

Care to point out where I told you who you should or should not feel sympathy for?

I'll tell you from where I'm coming from. I've been running internet-based businesses for 15 years. Several of them struggled at times because competitor companies were being blatantly dishonest in their business operations. One of my companies got driven almost in to the ground trying to compete with them while maintaining integrity.

More than a few of those competitors have ended up in jail for fraud, Dunning and Hogan are just more in a long line.

So while, afaik, Dunning wasn't a direct competitor, he was doing exactly the same kind of thing.

So you can guess how much sympathy I have. People like Dunning damaged my family.

On top of that, my only personal experience with Dunning was challenging some claims he made about some businesses on one of his podcasts (ironically, effectively calling them scammers) His response was to ask me to provide evidence he was wrong. Fair enough. I did so. He deleted my responses. His false info remains on skeptoid, negatively influencing others.

That's my experience of Dunning's moral compass. His FBI interview just confirms it.
 
Last edited:
BTMO said:
Like it or not, theft of this magnitude taints his message. I used to love listening to skeptoid (my wife still does I think...) - but I have trouble disassociating his admitted (he pleaded guilty to stealing millions) basic dishonesty from anything else he has to say.

While he was talking about the dishonest actions of others, he was quietly and surreptitiously stealing more money than most of us will see in a lifetime.

Hypocrisy doesn't sit well with me...
Click to expand...

This. Whether or not you consider "the skeptical movement" to be a thing, or worth supporting, or whatever, the damage he did to it with this stunt will be far-reaching and pervasive. It's yet another concrete example of "skepticism/atheism is just an excuse for people to be selfish and greedy" coming at very much the wrong time.

The best thing "the community", whatever it is, can do at this point is to bury Dunning in the yard out back and treat him as a piece of history. Reference his work as necessary, but only for the facts it contained, not the work itself.
 
Last edited:
remirol said:
This. Whether or not you consider "the skeptical movement" to be a thing, or worth supporting, or whatever, the damage he did to it with this stunt will be far-reaching and pervasive. It's yet another concrete example of "skepticism/atheism is just an excuse for people to be selfish and greedy" coming at very much the wrong time.

The best thing "the community", whatever it is, can do at this point is to bury Dunning in the yard out back and treat him as a piece of history. Reference his work as necessary, but only for the facts it contained, not the work itself.
Click to expand...

No and no.
 
Like it or not, theft of this magnitude taints his message. I used to love listening to skeptoid (my wife still does I think...) - but I have trouble disassociating his admitted (he pleaded guilty to stealing millions) basic dishonesty from anything else he has to say.

While he was talking about the dishonest actions of others, he was quietly and surreptitiously stealing more money than most of us will see in a lifetime.

Hypocrisy doesn't sit well with me...
Click to expand...

Wolfman said:
This, I agree with.
Click to expand...

I to agree. I keep imagining him doing a skeptoid episode on his own case... ripping his own defense apart...... actually, it would be funny if someone who doesn't like him does a spoof and posts it on youtube.

"I'm Brian Dunning......... Today's episode... The Brian Dunning Case.
 
How is honesty or a moral compass relevant to being a skeptic?

I don't see why someone can't be a crook and a good skeptic at the same time.
 
marplots said:
How is honesty or a moral compass relevant to being a skeptic?

I don't see why someone can't be a crook and a good skeptic at the same time.
Click to expand...

When one decides to portray himself as a public face of skepticism, non-crookedness is a desirable trait, as is credibility.
 
Checkmite said:
When one decides to portray himself as a public face of skepticism, non-crookedness is a desirable trait, as is credibility.
Click to expand...

That's interesting. How might I go about portraying myself as a public face of skepticism? Should I announce it here or take out an ad?

I thought it was an organic development and his popularity was based on content, not declaration.

And to think I bristled when Christopher Hitchens was portrayed as a drunken, foul-mouthed sot for rhetorical purposes. Is there any way that Skeptoid is less valuable now that we know the author was a crook?
 
Last edited:
marplots said:
Is there any way that Skeptoid is less valuable now that we know the author was a crook?
Click to expand...
Yes. The people we need to reach (people who aren't so good at critical thinking and/or need to learn and/or need to check their viewpoints on stuff) now have a valid reason to dismiss him and everything he says out-of-hand as either lying, having an ulterior motive, or otherwise not being a trustable source. It doesn't matter how much your content is correct if you can't get anybody's ear.
 
remirol said:
Yes. The people we need to reach (people who aren't so good at critical thinking and/or need to learn and/or need to check their viewpoints on stuff) now have a valid reason to dismiss him and everything he says out-of-hand as either lying, having an ulterior motive, or otherwise not being a trustable source. It doesn't matter how much your content is correct if you can't get anybody's ear.
Click to expand...

Well, on the upside, at least it was just fraud and he's not a child molester, a blasphemer, a homosexual or a Communist.
 
remirol said:
Yes. The people we need to reach (people who aren't so good at critical thinking and/or need to learn and/or need to check their viewpoints on stuff) now have a valid reason to dismiss him and everything he says out-of-hand as either lying, having an ulterior motive, or otherwise not being a trustable source. It doesn't matter how much your content is correct if you can't get anybody's ear.
Click to expand...

The first question is whether he will be able to continue Skeptoid? If he end up in prison, I can't see if he can. If not, will there be limitation on his use of the internet and the way he can raise money? Wire fraud is a major offense in the U.S., right? If so, he has a criminal record which will limit his employment.
 
Am I the only one asking herself why if Dunning made the amount of money he did from his Ebay fraud that he kept ceaselessly whining to me and his other listeners "to help make Skeptoid my full time job" by sending him some dough? Honestly I'm incensed. He seems not to dispute the dollar figures (a couple mil if memory serves), or did I miss that?
 
SomedayGirl said:
Am I the only one asking herself why if Dunning made the amount of money he did from his Ebay fraud that he kept ceaselessly whining to me and his other listeners "to help make Skeptoid my full time job" by sending him some dough? Honestly I'm incensed. He seems not to dispute the dollar figures (a couple mil if memory serves), or did I miss that?
Click to expand...

ebay says they paid out to him over $2 million in 2006 and over $3.3 million in 2007.

As of June 2007 he had over $650,000 in various accounts.

Dunning pleaded guilty last Monday (15th) and there will be a pre-sentencing investigation to determine loss, next court date August 8.

In 2011 Dunning claimed he didn't get much money from the fraud and most went on legal fees.

FBI press release from yesterday -

An evidentiary hearing to determine the loss amount will be held on August 8, 2013, before United States District Judge Edward J. Davila, in San Jose. The maximum statutory penalty for a violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1343 is 20 years’ imprisonment and a fine of $250,000, or twice the gross gain or gross loss from the offense, whichever is greater, plus restitution. However, any sentence following conviction would be imposed by the court after consideration of the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines and the federal statute governing the imposition of a sentence, 18 U.S.C. § 3553.

ETA: Here's an article from Arstechnica today that explains the scheme - How “Kessler’s Flying Circus” cookie-stuffed its way to $5.2M from eBay
 
Last edited:
Considering Dunning was making millions of dollars off this scheme, how do those who donated their hard earned pittances to him feel?
 
SomedayGirl said:
Am I the only one asking herself why if Dunning made the amount of money he did from his Ebay fraud that he kept ceaselessly whining to me and his other listeners "to help make Skeptoid my full time job" by sending him some dough? Honestly I'm incensed. He seems not to dispute the dollar figures (a couple mil if memory serves), or did I miss that?
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was thinking. I never donated, but always wanted to. Now I won't.
 
G6000 said:
Considering Dunning was making millions of dollars off this scheme, how do those who donated their hard earned pittances to him feel?
Click to expand...

I'm certainly not rich and I was giving the $4/month to Skeptoid for the last 3 years. I canceled that today. I have no personal animosity toward Mr. Dunning but it just felt odd.

I think the fact that it is an open issue today is what makes it odd. If the matter were over and done with(fine paid/jail time served) 5 years before he started Skeptoid then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I think "making Skeptoid his full time job" probably came up after the FBI paid him a visit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom