Most interesting UFO incidents thread

[Fudbucker]

No, why would you think so?

Because you're claiming alien craft don't exist. That's pretty consistent with the rare earth hypothesis.

But I'll just ask yuo straight out: what are you basing your claim on?

 

[Fudbucker]

How many known alien craft have visited the Earth?

Unknown. The Earth is 4 billion years old. SETI has only been going on for a few decades and has observed a laughably small part of the sky. In the last 4 billion years, how do you know any alien craft haven't stopped here?

 

[Stray Cat]

Because you're claiming alien craft don't exist. That's pretty consistent with the rare earth hypothesis.

Alien craft have never been shown to exist, there is 0 evidence for them so the default position is that they do not exist... until some evidence shows that they do.

But I'll just ask yuo straight out: what are you basing your claim on?

The fact that there is 0 evidence of alien craft existing.

 

[Stray Cat]

Unknown. The Earth is 4 billion years old. SETI has only been going on for a few decades and has observed a laughably small part of the sky. In the last 4 billion years, how do you know any alien craft haven't stopped here?

You know what the word "known" means right?

An argument from ignorance is no argument at all.

 

[Fudbucker]

Because we know the distances between stars.
Because we know that the maximum speed any object can achieve is limited to C.
Because we know the amounts of time required to travel those distances with that maximum speed.

At relatavistic velocities, you can travel pretty far in a pretty short amount of time (ship time).

Because we are aware of the fatigues and stresses put on materials in the absolute zero and total void of space.

Nitpick: space is not absolute zero.

We haven't even visited the nearest planet yet. I wouldn't preclude interstellar travel based on our limited knowledge of materials science.

For that minimum amount of time, measured in decades, required to travel between stars.

Depends on your frame of reference.

And that makes no assumptions of the longevity or biology of a pilot.

Machines can't pilot craft? According to some people here, machines are already conscious.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Because you're claiming alien craft don't exist. That's pretty consistent with the rare earth hypothesis.

No, I was claiming that ufology's "UFO ( alien craft )" don't exist. You cut out part of what was said.

But I'll just ask yuo straight out: what are you basing your claim on?

The lack of any known alien craft. I don't understand how you've mixed it up with the rare earth hypothesis, though.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Unknown. The Earth is 4 billion years old. SETI has only been going on for a few decades and has observed a laughably small part of the sky. In the last 4 billion years, how do you know any alien craft haven't stopped here?

It's unknown how many known alien craft have visited the earth?

 

[Fudbucker]

Alien craft have never been shown to exist, there is 0 evidence for them so the default position is that they do not exist... until some evidence shows that they do.


The fact that there is 0 evidence of alien craft existing.

Is there any evidence of any exoplanets existing in the Andromeda galaxy?

 

[Fudbucker]

It's unknown how many known alien craft have visited the earth?

Yes.

 

[Fudbucker]

No, I was claiming that ufology's "UFO ( alien craft )" don't exist. You cut out part of what was said.

What, exactly, are you claiming dont' exist? Sounds like "alien craft", but I guess not?

The lack of any known alien craft.

Absence of evidence isn't always evidence of absence. The lack of any coelacanths convinced a lot of people they were extinct. Oops!

I don't understand how you've mixed it up with the rare earth hypothesis, though.

The lack of any alien craft in the entire universe is consistent with rare earth hypothesis: such craft don't exist because intelligent aliens don't exist.

 

[Stray Cat]

Is there any evidence of any exoplanets existing in the Andromeda galaxy?

That has nothing to do with how many known alien craft have visited our planet.

Showing that fat men sometimes wear red doesn't prove Santa Claus.

 

[Stray Cat]

The lack of any alien craft in the entire universe is consistent with rare earth hypothesis: such craft don't exist because intelligent aliens don't exist.

No one is saying that intelligent aliens don't exist, what people are saying is that there is 0 evidence of them visiting our planet... therefore the null hypothesis has not been falsified.

 

[RoboTimbo]

What, exactly, are you claiming dont' exist? Sounds like "alien craft", but I guess not?

You'll need to show me where any alien craft have been proven to exist here.

Absence of evidence isn't always evidence of absence. The lack of any coelacanths convinced a lot of people they were extinct. Oops!

Absence of evidence where evidence would be expected is evidence of absence. I would actually welcome your evidence of a proven alien space craft having been captured. Certainly the burden of proof rests with the person making the positive claim such as "craft alien to this planet exist on earth." Until they satisfy that burden, we'll go with the null hypothesis.

The lack of any alien craft in the entire universe is consistent with rare earth hypothesis: such craft don't exist because intelligent aliens don't exist.

Why are you interjecting "in the entire universe" into what I've said?

 

[Resume]

Absence of evidence isn't always evidence of absence. The lack of any coelacanths convinced a lot of people they were extinct. Oops!

Of course the fossil coelacanths gave us a clue they actually once existed.

 

[Fudbucker]

That has nothing to do with how many known alien craft have visited our planet.

Showing that fat men sometimes wear red doesn't prove Santa Claus.

Irrelevant. My point was that we know there are planets in the Andromeda galaxy, even though we have no direct evidence of them.

 

[Stray Cat]

Irrelevant. My point was that we know there are planets in the Andromeda galaxy, even though we have no direct evidence of them.

And I know that fat men sometimes wear red even though we have no direct evidence of Santa Claus.

We have no direct or indirect evidence of alien craft visiting our planet.
Therefore the null hypothesis has not been falsified.

 

[Stray Cat]

Of course the fossil coelacanths gave us a clue they actually once existed.

Yes, isn't it funny how a little bit of evidence can change ones PoV.

 

[Fudbucker]

No one is saying that intelligent aliens don't exist, what people are saying is that there is 0 evidence of them visiting our planet...

There's evidence, just not good evidence. Testimony is evidence.

therefore the null hypothesis has not been falsified.

You still haven't proven which should be the null hypothesis. The evidence for "aliens have never visited earth" is just as non-existent as the converse. When there's no good evidence one way or another, there often is no null hypothesis. Example: if I show you a coin, there is no null hypothesis about which side it will land on.

 

[Fudbucker]

You'll need to show me where any alien craft have been proven to exist here.

That's not how it works. YOU'RE making the positive claim, not me: "No aliens have ever visited earth". The variables in the Drake Equation are so speculative, agnosticism is the only justifiable position to take.

Absence of evidence where evidence would be expected is evidence of absence.

Where are you expecting to see evidence of aliens? SETI?

I would actually welcome your evidence of a proven alien space craft having been captured.

Huh? When did I ever assert that?

Certainly the burden of proof rests with the person making the positive claim such as "craft alien to this planet exist on earth." Until they satisfy that burden, we'll go with the null hypothesis.

Since I'm not making that claim, this point is irrelevant.

Why are you interjecting "in the entire universe" into what I've said?

To show how absurd it is. What percentage of the universe have we examined? Yet you're making a positive claim that no

UFO ( alien craft )

exist. Why stop there? Have we ever observed liquid water on any planet other than Earth? Does that mean liquid water only exists on Earth?

 

[Fudbucker]

Of course the fossil coelacanths gave us a clue they actually once existed.

The point was not that they never existed, but that absence of evidence of any LIVING coelacanths convinced just about everyone they were extinct. One of the biggest epistemological problems people have is jumping to conclusions over an absence of evidence.