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Proof of Life After Death!!

Marcus said:
You can't have it both ways. You can't insist on the validity of the anecdotes you like, while insisting that the anecdotes you don't like don't count.

If you have changed your mind and no longer believe in the value of anecdotes as evidence just say so, I'm sure you will be congratulated.
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This is key. You are not actually discussing the merits of any of the cases, Robin. You are trying to play "Gotcha" but applying the rules inconsistently.
 
Robin, do Garrette's examples of what mentalists/magicians can do even make you stop and wonder?

They do me. When I read things like that, I am reminded all over again of how gullible the rest of us potentially really are. It also makes me feel a little better to see what I was up against. :)

Garrette, thanks for taking the time to post that.
 
Garrette said:
This is key. You are not actually discussing the merits of any of the cases, Robin. You are trying to play "Gotcha" but applying the rules inconsistently.
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"Applying the rules inconsistently" was not what I was trying to accomplish with my observation of irony. I'm beginning to think you guys are not THAT much smarter than me anymore.
 
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Haven't had a chance to watch the JE video yet. Hopefully this morning.

What I hear Robin saying is that regardless of what JE's performance seemed like with his back turned, he was more than validated for the things he said while his back was turned once he turned around and the readings continued.

Without a video of this latter part of the reading, we have no way to review this to discuss further.

To me, what Garrette has pointed out is a good reminder that regardless of how well JE appears to do at any point, back turned or not, it can be replicated and even improved on by non-mediums who are trained mentalists and magicians. Which is a point worth noting.
 
Robin1 said:
"Applying the rules inconsistently" was not what I was trying to accomplish with my observation of irony. I'm beginning to think you guys are not THAT much smarter than me anymore.
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Actually, I would be surprised if I am smarter than you. In my younger days I was very egotistical about my supposed brilliance. It was being on the skeptical road that lead me to understand that -- while I ain't stupid -- I'm far from a genius.

It isn't intellect we are discussing here; it is information and how to process it. That, Robin, is a choice, not an intellectual gift.
 
ExMinister said:
Haven't had a chance to watch the JE video yet. Hopefully this morning.

What I hear Robin saying is that regardless of what JE's performance seemed like with his back turned, he was more than validated for the things he said while his back was turned once he turned around and the readings continued.

Without a video of this latter part of the reading, we have no way to review this to discuss further.

To me, what Garrette has pointed out is a good reminder that regardless of how well JE appears to do at any point, back turned or not, it can be replicated and even improved on by non-mediums who are trained mentalists and magicians. Which is a point worth noting.
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And to restate what I have tried to emphasize: In the events I have described there is no room for hedging. Everything is an absolute yes or no fact for one pre-designated individual. There is no fishing for a connection of some undefined type, there is no question to the subject; there is only statement which is shown to be true.
 
ExMinister said:
Haven't had a chance to watch the JE video yet. Hopefully this morning.

What I hear Robin saying is that regardless of what JE's performance seemed like with his back turned, he was more than validated for the things he said while his back was turned once he turned around and the readings continued.

Without a video of this latter part of the reading, we have no way to review this to discuss further.

To me, what Garrette has pointed out is a good reminder that regardless of how well JE appears to do at any point, back turned or not, it can be replicated and even improved on by non-mediums who are trained mentalists and magicians. Which is a point worth noting.
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Hallelujah!!!!! Thank you ExMinister, for getting my point and trying to explain it to others. Really, thank you.
P.S. I don't agree with the other part of your post though. But, I'm sure you knew that already.
 
Robin1 said:
"Applying the rules inconsistently" was not what I was trying to accomplish with my observation of irony. I'm beginning to think you guys are not THAT much smarter than me anymore.
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No. Of course we are not any smarter than you. We've just studied magic, mentalism, psychics and cold reading more than you.
 
Garrette said:
Actually, I would be surprised if I am smarter than you. In my younger days I was very egotistical about my supposed brilliance. It was being on the skeptical road that lead me to understand that -- while I ain't stupid -- I'm far from a genius.
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Even a genius might type "lead" where she meant "led".
 
Robin1 said:
There is quite a satisfying irony here regarding the fact that you are trying to prove to me you could do what JE does by offering me anecdotes as proof.
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I find this funny, actually.

But I disagree. The difference really, as I see it anyway, is that Garrette isn't claiming anything supernatural or extraordinary here. There is a saying that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Anecdotes aren't exactly extraordinary evidence in support of the existence of psychic abilities and an afterlife.
 
Garrette said:
Actually, I would be surprised if I am smarter than you. In my younger days I was very egotistical about my supposed brilliance. It was being on the skeptical road that lead me to understand that -- while I ain't stupid -- I'm far from a genius.

It isn't intellect we are discussing here; it is information and how to process it. That, Robin, is a choice, not an intellectual gift.
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Beat me to it. Intelligence may be a hedge against magical thinking, but it's no guarantee. Look at all the smart people who are also religious.
 
Find the Connection..

When a cold reader says things like "I'm seeing an anchor in some way", what he wants is for you to play the "Find the Connection" game.

How many ways could you find a connection to an anchor to any man you know (living or dead)?

  • A tattoo on either the person or anyone he cared about, spouse, parent, child, friend, business partner, guy he played chess with..
  • He was in the Navy, Marines, Coast Guard, merchant marines, or had at some time worked on a boat..
  • He had a boat, or liked to spend time on boats..
  • He was on a boat once and it was important to him, maybe in war, or maybe a special cruise trip..
  • Some person he cares about has a connection with spends/spent time on a boat..
  • He lived near the coast/ a lake/ a harbor/ any body of water..
  • His favorite restaurant had an anchor logo or nautical theme..
  • His favorite tv show was Deadliest Catch..
  • If the anchor is like Valerie Harper, anyone amoungst his family or friends might have looked at an anchor or thought about an anchor sometime in recent memory, or bought a shirt with an anchor on it, or gone to a nautically themed show or restaurant..
  • He did a great Popeye impression, had big forearms like Popeye..
  • The anchor is a symbol for stability or a strong foundation. Perhaps he used to call his spouse or someone else "his anchor"..
  • The anchor is an old Christian symbol. ( Hebrews 6:19: "We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure." ) Perhaps the man was a devout Christian..
  • The anchor is a symbol of hope or religious steadfastness, often included in coats of arms and family crests..
  • Anchor/Anker/Ancre/Ancor/Anchora is a surname, goes back hundreds of years..
  • He was, or someone he cared about was a tv anchorman/woman..

I'm sure there are hundreds more.

So, really, quite honestly, if you think hard enough about it, and look hard enough at their family and friends, you should be able to come up with a strong and meaningful anchor connection to just about anyone you know. Cold readers are right. If you can't think of one now, just go home and think about it harder, and ask your other friends and relatives. Surely someone will come up with one.

There is no way to lose when you play the "Find the Connection" game. There is ALWAYS a connection. A brain that is looking for a pattern will always find it.
 
meg said:
When a cold reader says things like "I'm seeing an anchor in some way", what he wants is for you to play the "Find the Connection" game.

How many ways could you find a connection to an anchor to any man you know (living or dead)?

  • A tattoo on either the person or anyone he cared about, spouse, parent, child, friend, business partner, guy he played chess with..
  • He was in the Navy, Marines, Coast Guard, merchant marines, or had at some time worked on a boat..
  • He had a boat, or liked to spend time on boats..
  • He was on a boat once and it was important to him, maybe in war, or maybe a special cruise trip..
  • Some person he cares about has a connection with spends/spent time on a boat..
  • He lived near the coast/ a lake/ a harbor/ any body of water..
  • His favorite restaurant had an anchor logo or nautical theme..
  • His favorite tv show was Deadliest Catch..
  • If the anchor is like Valerie Harper, anyone amoungst his family or friends might have looked at an anchor or thought about an anchor sometime in recent memory, or bought a shirt with an anchor on it, or gone to a nautically themed show or restaurant..
  • He did a great Popeye impression, had big forearms like Popeye..
  • The anchor is a symbol for stability or a strong foundation. Perhaps he used to call his spouse or someone else "his anchor"..
  • The anchor is an old Christian symbol. ( Hebrews 6:19: "We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure." ) Perhaps the man was a devout Christian..
  • The anchor is a symbol of hope or religious steadfastness, often included in coats of arms and family crests..
  • Anchor/Anker/Ancre/Ancor/Anchora is a surname, goes back hundreds of years..
  • He was, or someone he cared about was a tv anchorman/woman..
I'm sure there are hundreds more.

So, really, quite honestly, if you think hard enough about it, and look hard enough at their family and friends, you should be able to come up with a strong and meaningful anchor connection to just about anyone you know. Cold readers are right. If you can't think of one now, just go home and think about it harder, and ask your other friends and relatives. Surely someone will come up with one.

There is no way to lose when you play the "Find the Connection" game. There is ALWAYS a connection. A brain that is looking for a pattern will always find it.
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Precisely, which is one reason the events I described are far more impressive than what Edward does. But with that being said, I think I have derailed the analysis of the JE video long enough. It was bearing fruit, so I will bow out again for now.
 
Robin1 said:
"Applying the rules inconsistently" was not what I was trying to accomplish with my observation of irony. I'm beginning to think you guys are not THAT much smarter than me anymore.
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Who said they were?
 
Robin, I believe you said you went to JE with your mother, a friend, and your brother.

Out of curiosity, what did your mother and friend think of the show?
 
Resume said:
Don't forget your favorite cold reader has lots and lots of practice at it. Kinda odd that he isn't better at it than he is though.

In the end, the cold reading Edward does is a carny gimmick from which he's managed a very good living; if he truly had some sort of psychic gift, he'd have proved it by now and skeptics like myself would be believers like yourself. Everything we understand about reality would change, and scientists would be lined up to try and understand this discovery. I think that if you gave it more than a passing moment of critical thought, you'd perceive why this hasn't happened.
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Resume, I hear what you are saying. Here's what I think and why:
If anyone could truly command the paranormal in the way you would require it to be successfully proven to you, then there would really be no point in any of us being on this earth or as I think of it "school." Cause all the answers would be right there for us and we could call on God or our deceased loved ones or angels etc. to tell us exactly what to do and solve all our problems for us. That would not be an effective school. We are here to learn and grow spiritually through our own experiences and choices. Free will and all (Don't you roll your eyes, Resume). And a huge part of our lesson is just learning to be kind to one another. But, as in a school, we are offered some help and guidance, from Above...and as in a school we are free to take it or leave it. One example of that help would be your intuition. Or a feeling you get. Or any other myriad of "signs" that are sent our way to help us learn and grow, to guide us, to strengthen our faith, to comfort us, to give us hope, etc. We are here for a reason, and in no way have been abandoned. (Resume, if you keep rolling your eyes they will get stuck like that). I believe I've been given plenty of evidence to prove this, besides JE, and I do not require it to be this or that...it is what it is...whether it be messages in dreams ( especially dream visitations that were later MAJORLY validated ...the slippers and Ocean City for example ) or other signs, even through a medium. And remember since I believe my Dad and Nana were absolutely able to communicate with me (and they proved it) it is not a great leap for me to think that they might also be able to communicate with someone who has a special ability, like JE. And I also believe that communication with your deceased can be clearer with some than others. And I do not expect it to be crystal clear as in the "st" sounding name etc. but I would expect much more than just that. Only because I am, and will always remain, skeptical.
 
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