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Proof of Life After Death!!

Makes sense to me. I don't agree, though.
Of course you don't, however, the point of reference you use for determining such things as your belief is yourself. This loop system you set up is incapable of (or at the very least makes it extremely difficult) adjusting to contrary evidence.
 
Just how High do we have to be to understand this?

He is just riffing off his intuitions. This kind of thing makes for great improvised instrumental solos, or even poetry and lyrics, but is useless in a discussion like this where coherent arguments are needed.
 
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Quote:
Go placidly amid the noise and waste,
And remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Avoid quiet and passive persons, unless you are in need of sleep.
Rotate your tires.
Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself,
And heed well their advice, even though they be turkeys.
Know what to kiss, and when.
Consider that two wrongs never make a right, but that three do.
Wherever possible, put people on hold.
Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment,
and despite the changing fortunes of time,
There is always a big future in computer maintenance.

Remember The Pueblo.
Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle, and mutilate.
Know yourself. If you need help, call the FBI.
Exercise caution in your daily affairs,
Especially with those persons closest to you -
That lemon on your left, for instance.
Be assured that a walk through the ocean of most souls
Would scarcely get your feet wet.
Fall not in love therefore. It will stick to your face.
Gracefully surrender the things of youth: birds, clean air, tuna, Taiwan.
And let not the sands of time get in your lunch.
Hire people with hooks.
For a good time, call 606-4311. Ask for Ken.
Take heart in the bedeepening gloom
That your dog is finally getting enough cheese.
And reflect that whatever fortune may be your lot,
It could only be worse in Milwaukee.

You are a fluke of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not,
The universe is laughing behind your back.

Therefore, make peace with your god,
Whatever you perceive him to be - hairy thunderer, or cosmic muffin.
With all its hopes, dreams, promises, and urban renewal,
The world continues to deteriorate.
Give up!

Also, don't drink drunk
Unless you feel you must
You must.
 
Deleted cause whole quote wouldn't appear. Ruined my joke.
AND of course, nothing is worse than a joke that bombs.
Not that I would know.
 
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I had an epiphany similar to Mike's once. Mine came to a slightly different conclusion, though.

While researching a particularly bizarre looking diseased insect I found, all of a sudden it hit me that:

There are more than 20,000 different kinds of illnesses, deficiencies, disorders, conditions, and syndromes which make up all the "diseases" which we humans can get. Most of them can kill us.

We can get localized diseases like pink eye, or athlete's foot, or liver disease.
We can get disseminated diseases which start in one place, but spread to other parts, like metastatic cancers or sepsis.
We can get systemic diseases which affect the whole body, like flu, high blood pressure, or Ebola.

They can be caused by our own genes

They can be caused by our own behaviors

They can be caused by tiny creatures, like viruses, bacteria, fungi, protozoa, or even teeny aberrant proteins called prions, which we can eat, drink, sniff, breathe, touch, or otherwise latch onto just by going about our lives.

They can be caused by not so tiny multicellular creatures, like guinea worms, pinworms, hookworms, threadworms, tapeworms, ascaris worms, scabies, lice, tics, mosquitos, flies, or bites or licks or sneezes from other large infected animals.

And there are thousands of different animals that will kill us whenever and wherever they can. Some because they want to eat us, like lions, sharks, polar bears, alligators. Some, just because they don't want us near them, like rhinos, elephants, hippos or cape buffalo. Some, because that is how they defend themselves, like deathstalker scorpions, cone snails, stonefish, black mambas, box jellyfish, and several hundred other kinds of snakes, spiders, fish, insects, or sea creatures.

And, of course, we kill each other all the time. By accident. On purpose. Because we love. Because we hate. Because we want. Because we're afraid. Because we're brave. Because we don't even know we're doing it.

And as soon as we die, our bodies are gobbled up by decomposers. Mammals, birds, insects, invertebrates, bacteria, fungi, enzymes that all work quickly to turn us back into basic elements used by something else to keep on living.

And here's where the epiphany thing happened.

I realized that every single one of the 300,000 different species of plants, 2,000,000ish species of insects, 70,000 different kinds of mollusks, 40,000 types of crustaceans, 30,000 different fishes, 6,000 amphibians, 9000 reptiles, 10,000 birds, and 5500ish mammals ALL have just as many diseases, conditions, deficiencies, disorders and predators as we do.

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US.

The whole planet is a constant writhing rotting flux of birthing and dying, eating and being eaten, you struggling to grow, and other things struggling to grow on you/in you. Disease, mold, fungus, and rots are the majority of our perfect world.

Most people, when they think about life and death, predators and prey, they think only about lions and antelopes, people gettting born and people dying of old age.

We are blind to the 99.999999999% of the harrowing struggles and life and death battles that are taking place every minute, every second, right in our own homes, our own back yards, every day. Within mere feet from our own front doors, we simply don't notice the thousands of dead ants wiped out by an invading colony, the botrytis rot infesting the grape clusters, the predatory wasps laying eggs in the aphids, killing each one painfully slowly, the 30,000 insects eaten by one toad in a summer, the thousands of little rots, fungi, molds and bacteria struggling to grow, waiting for their perfect moment to take over every blade of grass, every leaf on every tree, the spiders capturing their daily prey, the beetles eating the pillbugs. The grubs eating plant roots. The moles eating grubs. The diseased bees that never make it back home. The ground is littered with insect carcasses, each almost immediately colonized with more bacteria, molds and fungi that quickly break them down into elements which the plants immediately grab and use to grow.

That is how our world works. Plants capture energy from the sun, and use elements from the soil, and every other living thing on the planet takes their energy from other living things. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be transformed from one thing to another.

This is why I'm pretty sure there are no souls or spirits. Because these things would have to have energy. And if they had energy, not only could we measure it, but there would be hundreds and thousands of diseases, conditions, molds, fungi, bacteria and predators that fed on that energy. And we would be able to measure them, too.

If there was life after death, there would be disease and death after death, too. There is nothing alive that cannot die. There is nothing alive that cannot get sick. There is nothing alive that cannot be killed.

THAT is the beautiful, magical, chaotic and mathematically precise world we live in.

So I've decided to try to enjoy every moment of life I've got. Because there are millions of animals, insects, bacteria, fungi, protozoa, cell mutations, and enzymes conspiring to kill me so they can live on. And once I'm dead, they will eat every cell, break down every molecule. Those molecules used by more plants, more insects, more animals..

I will simply become them.


In order to believe in life after death, you have to deliberately ignore the reality of life.
 
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Meg, that is beautifully said.

I had an epiphany similar to yours, sparked by watching the tiniest microscopic creatures of the ocean, all different species or subspecies, and realizing that they too killed each other, had to fear for their existence, if fear is the right word to use with microscopic creatures, had to struggle for food. One thought led to another, right up the food chain.

But I have never tried to put it into words. Never would it have come out as beautifully as you did anyway. Thanks for posting that.
 
Mountebanks

I suppose the guild here consider all philosophers a bunch of mountebanks... Right?

Anyway, assuming skepticism is the "ideal" state of mind..... How boring it is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:p
 
I suppose the guild here consider all philosophers a bunch of mountebanks... Right?

Anyway, assuming skepticism is the "ideal" state of mind..... How boring it is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:p

Fantasy worlds are fun, until they find the rubber room for you.
 
I suppose the guild here consider all philosophers a bunch of mountebanks... Right?

Anyway, assuming skepticism is the "ideal" state of mind..... How boring it is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:p

Miguelito,

I would guess that most of the people here do not think philosophers are mountebanks. But that doesn't mean that they believe in life after death.

If you read meg's post carefully, you will see that what she describes is not boring. Similarly, looking at life from a non-religious perspective does not cause people to be cruel or immoral.

I think that you had a wonderful experience, and that you described it very poetically. But that does not mean it is more than a personal experience. I had a very different experience some years ago, in which I knew that the earth was cracking apart. I saw it starting to happen.

It wasn't true.

que le vaya bien,

xterra
 
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I suppose the guild here consider all philosophers a bunch of mountebanks... Right?

Anyway, assuming skepticism is the "ideal" state of mind..... How boring it is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:p

Why would it be boring?

I find that looking for and finding evidence and having the instant ability to alter my view in line with the evidence to be most exciting... much more so than having to keep the same beliefs for the rest of my life.

And then it doesn't stop me one iota from engaging in fantasy, being creative to earn my living, playing music with my band every weekend, performing magic when the opportunity arises and lots more interesting stuff... There's nothing boring about it.
 
I suppose the guild here consider all philosophers a bunch of mountebanks... Right?

Anyway, assuming skepticism is the "ideal" state of mind..... How boring it is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:p

Does learning to play a musical instrument somehow diminish the effect of listening to music, or can it enhance the experience?
 
A burning in the bosom would not be enough evidence...for me, anyway. I would need more ( hang on a sec while I put on my slippers). I have read a lot of Janadele's LDS thread and even added my two cents there. Yes, it is obvious to me that the cold hard facts render much of what their religion is based upon untrue. But, that in no way means there is no God. Does anyone on here believe that just because things written in the Book of Mormon or in the Bible are false = there is no God ? Cause that would be a pretty big leap.

There is no god.
 
A story if I may....my oldest brother is extremely smart...Harvard educated and all. Obviously much smarter than me or most. One day we were at his house and he was trying to open some blinds but they were stuck. He kept trying. No luck. My husband gets up to try, took him a sec to figure out what was wrong, fixed it, and opened the blinds no problem. If it weren't for my husband, my brilliant brother would STILL be trying to open those blinds. We all had a good laugh about it! My point? I think most of you here are indeed very, very smart. Smarter than me. I also think you are missing the obvious. Just like my brother.

You sure make a lot of assumptions and then believe they are all true.

Is there any chance at all that you could be wrong?

Or, are you always correct about everything 100% of the time?
 
A burning in the bosom would not be enough evidence...for me, anyway. I would need more ( hang on a sec while I put on my slippers). I have read a lot of Janadele's LDS thread and even added my two cents there. Yes, it is obvious to me that the cold hard facts render much of what their religion is based upon untrue. But, that in no way means there is no God. Does anyone on here believe that just because things written in the Book of Mormon or in the Bible are false = there is no God ? Cause that would be a pretty big leap.

Could you please direct me to where proof of the existence of a god can be found?
 
I suppose the guild here consider all philosophers a bunch of mountebanks... Right?

Anyway, assuming skepticism is the "ideal" state of mind..... How boring it is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:p

And you don't see how you are describing yourself with this?
 
Abruptly, I could not only see the perfect order in everything but I also could see the process taking place.

Awesome, the theory of everything!

Please explain in detail. I bet Stephen Hawking is going to be really excited about this.

When and where will you be publishing?

Wow! This is going to be perfect!
 
It was one simple day, no books, no readings, no chat.... Suddenly, while I was sitting in contemplation of the wonders of Nature, during a short trip to the country side, the amazing Order of nature slapped my face.

Abruptly, I could not only see the perfect order in everything but I also could see the process taking place.


How surprising. A systems and software engineer looks at nature and decides it is an elaborately engineered system!

Perhaps next a painter can tell us the universe has perfect symmetry and beauty.

Or a musician could tell us how everything in nature fits together like a symphony.

Or the guy that drives the honeywagon can tell us how everything in the world is made of ****.
 
How surprising. A systems and software engineer looks at nature and decides it is an elaborately engineered system!

Perhaps next a painter can tell us the universe has perfect symmetry and beauty.

Or a musician could tell us how everything in nature fits together like a symphony.

Or the guy that drives the honeywagon can tell us how everything in the world is made of ****.

Well, considering that all life grows from plants that collect energy, and plant fertilizer is, well...the honeywagon driver can at least make a good case ;)
 

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