Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[phonebook]

My point was that someone about said it was 7 seconds and that's not accurate.

That was me. I was basing that time on the parameters you provided:

...don't forget to factor in that from the time he says "****, he's running" to the time he's out of the car...

That would be ~7 seconds.

"the time he's out of the car" would be the time his door shut.

 

[Cylinder]

One interesting item in the state's response is Exhibit B - which is a previously unreleased narrative from W8 and the first telling released to date. It takes the form of a handwritten letter from W8 to Ms. Fulton:

March 19, 2012

I was on the phone when Trevon decided to go to the corner store. It started to rain so he decided to walk through another complex because it was raining to hard. He started walking then noticed someone was following him. Then he decided to find a shortcut cause the man wouldn't follow him. Then he said the man didn't follow him again. Then he looked back and saw the man again. The man started getting closer. Then Trevon turned around and said. Why are you following me!! Then I heard him fall, then the phone hung up. I called back and text. No response. In my mind it was just a fight. Then I found out this tragic story.

Thank you.

It's interesting in that she doesn't include (among other things) Martin running, pleading with Martin to run home, hearing Zimmerman respond to Martin or hearing Martin shout "Get Off!".

Also, as a side note, this is the first statement which claims she was on the phone with Martin when he left for the 7-11.

 

[Unabogie]

That was me. I was basing that time on the parameters you provided:
"the time he's out of the car" would be the time his door shut.

It was in the context of whether or not he exited his car to look for an address at the behest of the dispatcher, which is clearly not true since he opened the car door withing 3 seconds of noticing his victim running away from him.

 

[phonebook]

It was in the context of whether or not he exited his car to look for an address at the behest of the dispatcher, which is clearly not true since he opened the car door withing 3 seconds of noticing his victim running away from him.

True, but still, it was after the dispatcher asked which way he was running.

 

[Dan O.]

The chart for the next three seconds of audio beginning at 02:12:985 is available at: https://sites.google.com/site/trayvonmartinwiki/zimmerman-nen-call

02:12.905 short noise
02:12.981 George: other entrance
02:14.026 Door shut 
02:14.436 OK, which entrance is that that he's heading for
02:15.902 Da-dmp (possibly door locks)
02:16.359 Da-dmp (possibly door locks) (time aprox.)
02:16.472 rubbery scratch (time aprox.)

 

[phonebook]

It's interesting in that she doesn't include (among other things) Martin running, pleading with Martin to run home, hearing Zimmerman respond to Martin or hearing Martin shout "Get Off!".

I also think it's interesting that she says - "In my mind it was just a fight" - like, no big deal... nothing out of the ordinary here.

but in the interview with BDLR she says:

~22:10 - Link

Dee Dee: "Cuz I know him" - "He would never fight, that's his problem"

BDLR - "He was not one of those people?"

Dee Dee: "Mm-mm [No]... he would never fight."

Not exactly consistent statements or impressions.

 

[KatieG]

One interesting item in the state's response is Exhibit B - which is a previously unreleased narrative from W8 and the first telling released to date. It takes the form of a handwritten letter from W8 to Ms. Fulton:



It's interesting in that she doesn't include (among other things) Martin running, pleading with Martin to run home, hearing Zimmerman respond to Martin or hearing Martin shout "Get Off!".

Also, as a side note, this is the first statement which claims she was on the phone with Martin when he left for the 7-11.

I can think of several reasons why she wouldn't include that part in a note to TMs mother.

 

[KatieG]

I also think it's interesting that she says - "In my mind it was just a fight" - like, no big deal... nothing out of the ordinary here.

but in the interview with BDLR she says:

~22:10 - Link

Dee Dee: "Cuz I know him" - "He would never fight, that's his problem"

BDLR - "He was not one of those people?"

Dee Dee: "Mm-mm [No]... he would never fight."

Not exactly consistent statements or impressions.

I'm seeing the inconsistencies in what she's saying. She thought it was a fight. I'm sure she's been exposed to fights before. So saying TM would never fight means she hasn't seen him fight. Trying to parse the meaning of a 17 yo girl is difficult.

If she gets put on the stand, I would expect MO'M to try to pin her down about this very subject. Nobody has ever done anything until they do it the first time.

 

[Dan O.]

Here's a closer look at the short noise at 02:12.900

It's mostly random noise that finishes off with a 1.6kHz vibration and an exponential decay. This could be a small spring latch like on a glove box or console door closing or could be the keys being removed from the ignition. This kind of signature should be easy to match to actual car noises.

 

[Dan O.]

Trying to parse the meaning of a 17 yo girl is difficult.

That's why I'd rather work with car noises.

 

[phonebook]

So saying TM would never fight means she hasn't seen him fight.

I took it to mean more than just she had never seen him fight. She says she knows him, and because she knows him "he would never fight", like he's not that type of person. In fact, BDLR says "He was not one of those people?", to which she confirms, and repeats "He would never fight."

ETA: This is a pretty direct contradiction. It's not just a minor inconsistency. GZ makes even minor inconsistencies and he's a liar. Dee Dee does the same, or worse, and "she's just a 17 y.o. girl". Couldn't be that her story has holes in it.

 

[phonebook]

I can think of several reasons why she wouldn't include that part in a note to TMs mother.

Although she said all of those things with TM's mother sitting right next to her.

 

[KatieG]

I took it to mean more than just she had never seen him fight. She says she knows him, and because she knows him "he would never fight", like he's not that type of person. In fact, BDLR says "He was not one of those people?", to which she confirms, and repeats "He would never fight."

ETA: This is a pretty direct contradiction. It's not just a minor inconsistency. GZ makes even minor inconsistencies and he's a liar. Dee Dee does the same, or worse, and "she's just a 17 y.o. girl". Couldn't be that her story has holes in it.

I think her story has lots of holes of in it. I speculated on her meaning, you don't agree. That's ok with me. As to the holes in her story, until we see the whole thing laid out, it's hard to tell whether those holes will matter or not.

 

[Dan O.]

Does anyone know if George's car has an automatic seatbelt? I'm hearing a motor noise that sounds like it could be that or the steering wheel retracting.

 

[KatieG]

Although she said all of those things with TM's mother sitting right next to her.

Being able to talk with someone face to face, or side by side, as the case may be, is very different than writing a note to someone expressing sympathy. I don't know her motives and neither do you.

 

[KatieG]

I took it to mean more than just she had never seen him fight. She says she knows him, and because she knows him "he would never fight", like he's not that type of person. In fact, BDLR says "He was not one of those people?", to which she confirms, and repeats "He would never fight."

ETA: This is a pretty direct contradiction. It's not just a minor inconsistency. GZ makes even minor inconsistencies and he's a liar. Dee Dee does the same, or worse, and "she's just a 17 y.o. girl". Couldn't be that her story has holes in it.

The inconsistencies in GZs story are of much more importance than anything W8 has to say about that night. Apples, oranges, that kind of thing.

 

[phonebook]

The inconsistencies in GZs story are of much more importance than anything W8 has to say about that night. Apples, oranges, that kind of thing.

Really? Absent W8's testimony, there isn't any evidence to suggest that GZ attempted to detain, or otherwise touch TM. The more she contradicts herself, the bigger the blow to her credibility. How will the prosecution be able to prove GZ started the physical altercation absent any evidence? I think what W8 has to say will potentially be more important than anything GZ has said.

 

[KatieG]

Really? Absent W8's testimony, there isn't any evidence to suggest that GZ attempted to detain, or otherwise touch TM. The more she contradicts herself, the bigger the blow to her credibility. How will the prosecution be able to prove GZ started the physical altercation absent any evidence? I think what W8 has to say will potentially be more important than anything GZ has said.

W8 didn't kill anyone. GZ will be on trial for killing TM, I'd think anything and everything he has to say is the most important aspect of this whole case.

 

[phonebook]

W8 didn't kill anyone. GZ will be on trial for killing TM, I'd think anything and everything he has to say is the most important aspect of this whole case.

In that case, GZ said TM punched him in the nose, then got on top of him, repeatedly punched him in the head and face, slammed his head against the concrete multiple times; covered his mouth and told him to "Shut the **** up", while he was screaming; and ultimately, while still on top of him, reached for, or towards his gun, which prompted GZ to pull out his weapon and fire one shot into TM's torso, saving his own life in the process. I guess there will need to be enough evidence to dispute that, and not only dispute it, but show what actually happened, all beyond a reasonable doubt.

Witness 8's story that she heard "get off, get off", right before the phone went dead, is going to be pretty important for the jury to believe if there is to be a convincing story that GZ was actually the aggressor.

 

[KatieG]

In that case, GZ said TM punched him in the nose, then got on top of him, repeatedly punched him in the head and face, slammed his head against the concrete multiple times; covered his mouth and told him to "Shut the **** up", while he was screaming; and ultimately, while still on top of him, reached for, or towards his gun, which prompted GZ to pull out his weapon and fire one shot into TM's torso, saving his own life in the process. I guess there will need to be enough evidence to dispute that, and not only dispute it, but show what actually happened, all beyond a reasonable doubt.

Witness 8's story that she heard "get off, get off", right before the phone went dead, is going to be pretty important for the jury to believe if there is to be a convincing story that GZ was actually the aggressor.

phonebook, we have very different ideas about what happened that night. I don't see what I believe to be the very minor injuries GZ suffered to be justification for shooting TM. You do. Shall we agree to disagree at this point?