2 questions re 1120 'Missing bodies' from WTC 1&2 & media complicity in mass murder

[Jbui]

Jbui

Are you claiming the body parts extended 300-600 feet further than the debris ?

No, just 300-600feet from the towers. Pretty much like all the other heavier debris.

 

[Spanx]

No, just 300-600feet from the towers. Pretty much like all the other heavier debris.

So when you see the pictures of people at the windows gasping for air, where should there bodies have gone during the collapse ? and why would it be unusual for there bodies to be crushed and travel with the debris ?

 

[Oystein]

Oystein. Let's summarize your theory of the missing 1100 bodies and little pieces of bones scattered in 200m radius:
people in the planes were torn apart and collapsing ceiling caused the air to blow these people out of the window.

OK, so here we have maybe 100-200 people in pieces, blown out of the window,

So far okay

and flying maybe 10-30meters.

I didn't say that. I gave you an average wind speed out the windows of 127 km/h - and that was a careful, conservative estimate - you will see top speed far exceeding this.

I did not derive any velocity for any class of object blown by such winds, nor an estimate for the distance they may get blown.

But let's try: They fall from a height of 300 meters or more, down on roofs faar below. Dropping 200 meters and more. That will easily take 10 seconds. If initial velocity is half of the127 km/h - half of 35.3 m/s, or about 18 m/s, then ... actually, I have no idea how far a finger or a hand would fly.

But you claim 10-30 meters. Please provide your reasons for this estimate!

And again, my version is not a theory, it is a fact that an explosive does that exactly that.

Explosives strapped directly onto the body of a suicide bomber.

Are you claiming the human remains found 100-200 m away are the remains of suicide bombers who had bombs strapped directly onto their bodies?

Otherwise you don't have a theory; you only have an interesting fact then, unrelated by any chain of reasoning to the events of 9/11.

And we all know it, you just do not even admit it. Except that I guess you agree with this guy: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8883027&postcount=19
-that you only need explosives to blow a person all around the place in small pieces, BUT that does not mean that NWO-people are involved in it. But I guess we all agree now that Al Qaeda did not put explosives in WTC towers....

Yes, we agree with that.

Are you aware that explosives cannot be silent and do register on sound recording devices as discontinuous spikes that cannot be muted? There were no such sounds, hence no such explosions.

 

[Jbui]

Please go back to my last post before today - some days ago. I made a few arguments there that you now failed to consider. For example the easy observation that this verinage example is of a much much smaller building, with a much much smaller floor area, which would generate much much lower air speeds.

Yes, it is a smaller building, but still we would need to see even a small hint of gravity blasting stuff horizontally - but we don't. Here is another good verinage example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5iFW89tw2k

Also the obvious fact that a builing prepared for verinage demolition is emptied of any larger than dust contents that the air puffs might blow around.

In WTC debris field of 200m radius there were wall deckings, steel beams from walls, and all kinds of debris from the building itself, and all that stuff was still in those verinage prepared buildings. But nothing was flying horizontally.

Also the obvious fact that you could not see in such images or videos if any pieces the size of bones or body fragments get blown far - they are too small to register with the low video resolution.

If a brick or a block of wall was flying sideways, we would see it in some of those verinage videos. And also the pile would not be in the footprint. But it is.

Also you failed to address my objection that only dust puffs are as limited in distance as the dust puffs that you see in the video.

What are you talking about?

Also the obvious observation that even this small verinage example eventually does result in fast air currents racing over neighboring buildings.

When the rubble finally hits the ground, there is already much dust and no other direction for the air to move...In cases of WTC we see the thick dust cloud forming in the "crushing" phase. Why would it pulverize so soon, unlike in the verinages?

In other words, you failed to concentrate on the discussion we are having.
This sort of failure to concentrate yout thoughts, to attempt on a convergent explanation, is the very reason why you will continue to fail with such things as long as you live.

I think you are the one having a difficulty here. give me a theory of those people other than on the planes turning into small pieces and flying 100-200meters away. and also how the people in the planes flew 100-200meters?

 

[The Platypus]

One minute their cult preaches that the buildings fell into their own footprint and this means conspiracy, the next minute their cult preaches that there was debris outside the footprint, and that means conspiracy... When everything leads to conspiracy, the conspiracy is pure BS.

 

[Redwood]

-But with WTC it was the walls that made up much of the flying components. Why don't walls in verinages blast away?

Perhaps it's the fact that in verinage, the upper columns are dropped squarely on the lower columns, but the upper sections of the Twin Towers tilted, hitting the floor assemblies first, then giving the perimeter columns a sideways shove.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Jbui

Are you claiming the body parts extended 300-600 feet further than the debris ?

No, just 300-600feet from the towers. Pretty much like all the other heavier debris.

It appears, then, that your objection to the conventional explanation is not to do with body parts per se, it's the wide distribution of debris generally that you find anomalous

OK, so here we have maybe 100-200 people in pieces, blown out of the window, and flying maybe 10-30meters.

We still need a theory for throwing the bones 100-200m away

Can you explain how you calculated that 10-30m distance?

 

[DGM]

Can you explain how you calculated that 10-30m distance?

............bends over.............pulls down paints...........


Do you really want to know?

 

[The Platypus]

Can you explain how you calculated that 10-30m distance?

I can tell you how, that's what the conspiracy website said.

 

[dafydd]

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9078936&postcount=580

I saw your non-answer. Why reprise it?

 

[Jbui]

One minute their cult preaches that the buildings fell into their own footprint and this means conspiracy, the next minute their cult preaches that there was debris outside the footprint, and that means conspiracy... When everything leads to conspiracy, the conspiracy is pure BS.

Please debunkers, think. Think before you start writing. Obviously here are two different things we are talking about. If you build a high tower, and then hit it on on side -what happens? it falls over. Like in so many demonlitions that went wrong. Or when you were a kid and your tower fell down. Or when you cut a tree. Only a perfect demolition manages to take tower straight down. Buildings are never perfectly symmetric inside, so even with perfectly symmetric plane damage, the WTC2 would have propably tilted. In case of WTC1 the collapse would have probably stopped...and of course the collapse would not have even initiated without the charges....

But, if the collapse would have started, (with verinage pulling or with some other help) and the towers had been pre weakened like verinage-buildings, so that the collapse would be able to continue, we would expect to see same results as in verinages, that is gravity taking it all down in one pile. Not blasting stuff 200m away. Of course both buildings would need to be pulled from the middle, WTC1 would not have come down many meters, since the damage was so high up. The momentum of the upper block would have been enough just for crushing couple some 10-20 floors.

So two things, they should have tilted, and they should not have blasted themselves in 200m radius. Talking about footprint is of course confusing if you have not started using your head in the first place.

 

[Jbui]

It appears, then, that your objection to the conventional explanation is not to do with body parts per se, it's the wide distribution of debris generally that you find anomalous

Human body differs from concrete so that the skin can not be cut in pieces with gravity. There is just no examples of cutting this leather jacket we all are wearing in tiny bits with gravity. So you have this unexplained phenomenon first. The you have the 100-200m flight. And the fact that we can do them both with (thermite based) explosives, and we see how hard it is to even come up with a crazy theory to even try to explain this without the explosives.

Can you explain how you calculated that 10-30m distance?

Just look at the verinage piles, look at WTC3 after WTC2 came down, look at WTC7 pile, look at any classic demolition implosion pile, look at anything that came down with gravity. They are all in nice pile, no heavier stuff is blasted anywhere.

 

[tsig]

Human body differs from concrete so that the skin can not be cut in pieces with gravity. There is just no examples of cutting this leather jacket we all are wearing in tiny bits with gravity. So you have this unexplained phenomenon first. The you have the 100-200m flight. And the fact that we can do them both with (thermite based) explosives, and we see how hard it is to even come up with a crazy theory to even try to explain this without the explosives.


Just look at the verinage piles, look at WTC3 after WTC2 came down, look at WTC7 pile, look at any classic demolition implosion pile, look at anything that came down with gravity. They are all in nice pile, no heavier stuff is blasted anywhere.

So obviously it wasn't a CD.

 

[Spanx]

So when you see the pictures of people at the windows gasping for air, where should there bodies have gone during the collapse ? and why would it be unusual for there bodies to be crushed and travel with the debris ?

Bump for jbui

 

[Jbui]

Perhaps it's the fact that in verinage, the upper columns are dropped squarely on the lower columns, but the upper sections of the Twin Towers tilted, hitting the floor assemblies first, then giving the perimeter columns a sideways shove.

Even with a shove, that debris might travel 10. Meters further. We are talking about 100-200 meters. So please try again and aim for at least that 100m line.

 

[Jbui]

Bump for jbui

Originally Posted by Spanx
So when you see the pictures of people at the windows gasping for air, where should there bodies have gone during the collapse ? and why would it be unusual for there bodies to be crushed and travel with the debris ?

-pretty much same as the jumpers, 10-20 meters away from the building.

It's not unusual for body parts to travel with the debris, it's unusual for them both to travel 100-200 meters.

 

[Jbui]

So obviously it wasn't a CD.

So obviously it was not classic implosion where you use gravity for major part of crushing and also try to avoid collateral damage.

 

[Spanx]

Originally Posted by Spanx
So when you see the pictures of people at the windows gasping for air, where should there bodies have gone during the collapse ? and why would it be unusual for there bodies to be crushed and travel with the debris ?

-pretty much same as the jumpers, 10-20 meters away from the building.

It's not unusual for body parts to travel with the debris, it's unusual for them both to travel 100-200 meters.

Would you care to explain in detail what's unusual.

I would like to see where you get your information.

Also explain why debris from wtc7 didn't travel 100-200 meters

 

[LSSBB]

Even with a shove, that debris might travel 10. Meters further. We are talking about 100-200 meters. So please try again and aim for at least that 100m line.

Interesting calculator you have built in that head. Now try again, with science.

You can't prove that there had to be explosives using your lack of understanding the physics of a collapse as your main piece of evidence. You actually have to show by physics how it could not happen just by the building collapse.

So far all your proof has been by the fact that you are incredulous, which doesn't prove anything but that you are incredulous, no matter how much faith you yourself place in your own powers of analysis

 

[Sunstealer]

It's not unusual for body parts to travel with the debris, it's unusual for them both to travel 100-200 meters.

What was the maximum distance the debris travelled? If it's in the range of 100-200m then it wouldn't be unusual would it?