DHS Preparing For Civil War In The US?

[Hans]

Of course they are. Just look at the evidence: the mainstream media is covering it up, there is not a single mention of a top DHS official moving their relatives and wealth out of the US.

Yep that proves it! AH HAH

 

[pakeha]

^
Ouch.

One of the basics of CTism is that Big Number = SCARY! (context is irrelevant)

And aside from the numbers working out to be just what you'd expect from training and re-certifications and what not, this is for .40 caliber ammunition. That's a pistol round.


What kind of idiot thinks that the Evil US Government would be fighting this "Civil War" with pistols?

I'm only surprised CM hasn't fastened onto the rumour the US gov't will use low level nukes to quell the coming civil unrest.

 

[dafydd]

^
Ouch.





I'm only surprised CM hasn't fastened onto the rumour the US gov't will use low level nukes to quell the coming civil unrest.

How low? About knee high? Perhaps one of our resident woos could enlighten us.

 

[Courier]

I hope & pray that DHS does declare war!!!

We got a lot of paranoid rif-raff we need to exterminate.

 

[LSSBB]

I hope & pray that DHS does declare war!!!

We got a lot of paranoid rif-raff we need to exterminate.

The CTers all seem to be pining for it anyway. I'm getting sick of hearing it. It's like all the Fundies and "the Apocalypse is coming".

 

[Rebel Yellow]

Could the CTers at least come up with something original? How many times have we heard this same theory before. martial law, gun control, etc. It's like CT greatest hits.

 

[Craig4]

Well, years ago when I worked for them (when it was INS and not DHS/CBP) we had to qualify on our 40 caliber pistols every quarter. This involved half a day of drills for tactics and marksmanship and half a day of shooting the course of fire for qualification. We had the most demanding course of fire in government because if we ever discharged our weapons in the line of duty we'd be shooting in a crowded port of entry with one bad guy and lots of innocent bystanders. I'm sure the Air Marshals course is harder now but they didn't exist when was on the job.

The 40 cal pistol is a double action only weapon (meaning a long, heavy trigger pull for every shot). The rounds we carried were expensive and designed to stop inside a body or object. The Service deliberately selected the 40 cal because they wanted very few well aimed rounds fired and not the mass of bullets you get sometimes with single/double action high capacity 9mm. It's not really a military weapon and that I'm aware of INS (now DHS) is the only agency that uses it. It's also a very difficult weapon to master (because of the heavy trigger pull) and is not popular with the public.

 

[catsmate]

Yes.

Thanks, it sounded familiar.

... New Tommy Gun? Well, its a .40 cal so... A Tom Gun?

IIRC DHS also has .40 H&K MP-5s.

 

[Lenbrazil]

Apparently much of the order is for hollow point rounds which apparently is more expensive. Why would they be used for target practice?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bwbqyNNCA8

 

[A'isha]

Apparently much of the order is for hollow point rounds which apparently is more expensive. Why would they be used for target practice?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bwbqyNNCA8

They're probably going to be used for lots of different things. Again, this is just an extension of previous contracts - DHS has been buying the same .40 hollow-point rounds (specifically hollow-point rounds) from the same company via contracts exactly like this for over a decade now.

So unless Obama's been using his time machine again, this has nothing to do with the government preparing for a civil war with lunatics who are angry about "Obama's gun grab".

 

[Horatius]

Why would they be used for target practice?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow-point_bullet

In target shooting, they are used for greater accuracy and reduction of smoke, fouling, and lead vapour exposure, as hollow point bullets have an enclosed base while traditional bullets have an exposed lead base.

Where target shooting accuracy is the prime consideration, some bullets such as the Sierra "Matchking" incorporate a cavity in the nose section. This has the effect of lightening the bullet's forward section and shifting the center of mass towards the tail of the bullet, to give an improved ballistic coefficient, greater down-range velocity retention, and greater resistance to deflection by crosswinds. The manufacturing process of hollow-point bullets also produces a flat, uniformly-shaped base on the bullet which increases accuracy by providing a more consistent piston surface for the expanding gases of the cartridge.

I'd think you'd also want the bullets you use in training to be as close as possible to those you'd use in real life.

 

[Craig4]

Apparently much of the order is for hollow point rounds which apparently is more expensive. Why would they be used for target practice?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bwbqyNNCA8

We didn't keep a store of ball and hollow point. The hollow point was the only authorized round to be fired from a service weapon, ever. We weren't even allowed to buy our own rounds to fire through the issue weapon.

I assume that the reason for this is to prevent unauthorized rounds from being loaded into a weapon that's carried on duty.

 

[dudalb]

They're probably going to be used for lots of different things. Again, this is just an extension of previous contracts - DHS has been buying the same .40 hollow-point rounds (specifically hollow-point rounds) from the same company via contracts exactly like this for over a decade now.

So unless Obama's been using his time machine again, this has nothing to do with the government preparing for a civil war with lunatics who are angry about "Obama's gun grab".

And the additional cost of ordering two or three different types of ammo for the same gun might outweigh what you would save by ordering a slightly cheaper type of practice.

 

[Lenbrazil]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow-point_bulletI'd think you'd also want the bullets you use in training to be as close as possible to those you'd use in real life.

Bingo! I did a little more Googling, I saw the Wikipedia bit but it had no citations then came across this:

Each FAA contract security officer will qualify with the firearm assigned to them, by serial number, using the same ammunition carried on duty and stored for emergency use​

.

http://faaco.faa.gov/attachments/Section_J_Att_J_8_Firearms_Qual_Std.doc

According to GRCA law enforcement staff, policies at Grand Canyon National Park specifically require that qualification for law enforcement officers be accomplished with the exact same ammunition that is carried on duty...While there is no prohibition against shooting non-service ammunition, it does not replicate the functioning and shooting characteristics of service loads.

http://www.doi.gov/greening/links/upload/EA-FiringRange.pdf

In demonstrating firearms proficiency, Protective Force Officers shall use firearms of the same type and barrel length as firearms used by Protective Force Officers while on duty, and the same type of ammunition as that used by Protective Force Officers on duty. Before a Protective Force Officer is qualified in the use of firearms, the Officer shall complete a review of the basic principles of firearms

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2012-title10-vol4/pdf/CFR-2012-title10-vol4-part1050.pdf


The following agencies arenot Federal but the principle is the same

The Purcell Police Department tries to qualify with the same type of ammunition they carry on duty




Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department

All qualifications shall be conducted using the same ammunition that is used in duty performance.​

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/CMPD/zstorage/InsideCMPD/Documents/400002Firearms.pdf


STATE OF CONNECTICUT
DEPARTMENT OF EMERGENCY SERVICES AND PUBLIC PROTECTION


Only “factory” ammunition (ie., Remington, Federal, Winchester, CCI, etc…) will be utilized for qualification and that same ammunition will be carried in the handgun upon successful completion of the program.

http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?a=4213&q=494622

 

[Garrison]

I notice that CM has never posted to acknowledge the comprehensive answers given to his original question.

 

[Matthew Cline]

Mandatory training and qualification burns through ammo, and it's cheaper in larger quantities.

You can run through 1K rounds per trainee in a two day course, and DHS has several thousand officers.

But that answer is boring, and the Truth is never boring!

 

[BStrong]

Apparently much of the order is for hollow point rounds which apparently is more expensive. Why would they be used for target practice?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bwbqyNNCA8

Because you always practice and qualify with what you carry.

ETA - I should have read further before posting.

 

[Courier]

How come conspiracy theorists aren't yelling at the big ammo and gun manufacturers for arming the govt. for this impending civil war?

 

[Horatius]

How come conspiracy theorists aren't yelling at the big ammo and gun manufacturers for arming the govt. for this impending civil war?

Because that's just honest capitalism!

 

[BStrong]

How come conspiracy theorists aren't yelling at the big ammo and gun manufacturers for arming the govt. for this impending civil war?

There are several small but very important military/LE oriented manufacuring companies that have announced that they will not do business with governmental entities where civilian firearms possession is restricted - Barrett manufacturing started it when Califonia banned .50 BMG caliber rifles, and because of the current anti-gun legislation hysteria - Smith Enterprises, Larue Tactical and BCM now will not accept governmental orders from states that have enacted firearm restrictions or bans on civilian possession of firearms.