WTC Dust Study Feb 29, 2012 by Dr. James Millette

[Spanx]

I am sure Sunstealer is willingly trolling when he states that no truther has commented on Millette´s results, even though Jones has done so publicly, and that his comments have been discussed on this very thread.

.

Please can you link to where Jones has spoken "publicly" about Millette's work.

 

[jtl]

Gamolon: If that is the case, then why did they have to go outside of their isolated group to find paint samples to use in their comparative tests? According to them and everyone else who puts faith in that paper, they supposedly had paint chips right there in front of them!

For crying out loud, don´t you get it? You still need "outside" samples of confirmed paint to confirm that your suspected paint is paint! For the rest of your questions, including this one

Why weren't these findings published in the paper or even mentioned? Isn't that significant?

MM has been trying to tell you and other people for some time now, with a quote from Harrit, so make this into your screensaver if you have to:

"When doing a scientific, instrumental investigation, there always is a great number of control experiments, which are implicit to every serious worker in the field. It is understood by the experienced reader, that these tests have been done, since you cannot put every basic control test image or report every bit of supporting data in a journal article. The articles would be so enormous that no one would bother reading them and no journal would possibly care to print them. There are some things that are implied."

TADA! That´s it, no more.

 

[Gamolon]

For crying out loud, don´t you get it? You still need "outside" samples of confirmed paint to confirm that your suspected paint is paint! For the rest of your questions, including this one

MM has been trying to tell you and other people for some time now, with a quote from Harrit, so make this into your screensaver if you have to:


TADA! That´s it, no more.

Show me one instance in their paper where they found ANY red/gray chip to be non-thermitic.

Just one.

 

[Spanx]

Has anyone actually seen jtl answer a question ?

It could almost be senenmut

 

[Gamolon]

TADA! That´s it, no more.

TADA!

Harrit and comapny believed that all their red/gray chips were thermitic.

READ THE PAPER!

They took random red/gray chips samples from the original isolated pile and did various tests. All results showed the random chips as being thermitic.


They stereotyped the entire pile of isolated chips with the results of random chip tests.

No red/gray chips showed any signs of being paint or non-thermitic PER THEIR PAPER.

 

[jtl]

Gamolon: Show me one instance in their paper where they found ANY red/gray chip to be non-thermitic

You really don´t get it do you?

All the chips in the paper are proposed thermitic chips, because the paper is about those chips, not some other chips. If you are still wondering about the other chips, go back to Harrit´s quote in my my previous post, and keep reading it over and over until you get it, or ask mommy to do it for you. I won´t waste more time on you.

 

[Gamolon]

Here is an excerpt from an email from Harrit to me...

The resistivity test were done in random on the chips already isolated as described. The information obtained must be considered "supplementary material"

So jtl. Are you telling me that they just had good luck and hit thermtic chips with every random test they did?

LOL

They performed random resistivity tests on random chips and applied those results to the initial isolated pile AS A WHOLE.

You just don't get it.

 

[beachnut]

No thermite damage to WTC steel

You really don´t get it do you?

...

Why was there no damage to WTC steel?

It is ironic, it took Jones 4 years to form the thermite fantasy, and 11 years after 911 Jones is just another failed paranoid conspiracy theorist joined by Harrit, the hundred of tons of thermite fantasy.

The big clue why Millette can't find thermite, it was not used.

 

[Redwood]

You really don´t get it do you?

All the chips in the paper are proposed thermitic chips, because the paper is about those chips, not some other chips. If you are still wondering about the other chips, go back to Harrit´s quote in my my previous post, and keep reading it over and over until you get it, or ask mommy to do it for you. I won´t waste more time on you.

Jtl, as an acolyte, maybe you could get back to Harrit with a simple proposal:

1. Take a sample of his 20 liters of WTC dust, and separate the "thermitic chips" and the "paint chips" from the dust. Publish the procedure by which they are distinguished from each other.

2. Run DSCs on both types of chips, under both an inert atmosphere and an oxygen atmosphere. (Customary disclaimer as to the uselessness of DSC as a tool of qualitative analysis)

You do know the importance of controls in science, don't you? Harrit et al have had four years to do this simple control test, but have either failed to perform it, or haven't published their results.

Prediction: He won't do it, because he knows damn well what the results will be: Under an inert atmosphere, all are essentially flat. Under an oxygen atmosphere, energy produced varies, depending on the percentage of organic resin present in the chips. This will show that all the energy produced comes from combustion of the resin.

 

[Ivan Kminek]

You can´t even face my post I linked to and it is pathetic, but at least you acknowledge that the MEK-Tnemec theory is bunk, so now it is official.
Do you think your buddies here will remember that for more than 2 minutes?
Prediction: They will keep pretending the Tnemec-MEK handwave is valid.

You imply that the LaClede theory works out without the Tnemec-MEK handwave, but you know that it is based on the handwave. You ignored my post because it points out that the chips have aluminum. LaClede does not have aluminum either, so there goes the LaClede theory down the drain as well.

Unless you can pull the third primer paint out of your hat, that has aluminum in it, you no longer have ANY candidate for that MEK handwave, and no more paint theory. Either you work on that or you move on like a grown up person.

Many pages ago I asked you all if there are any other proposed possibilities besides paint(plastics, wiring..etc?)but there was no response.

Jtl: it’s indeed you who stubbornly tries to hand-wave critically important results

1) Author of Bentham paper provided excellent XEDS spectra and micrographs of chips (a) to (d) which indicate nanosized iron oxide particles and typical platelets of kaolinite.

2) Millette proved kaolinite in the same kind of chips (with the same kind of iron oxide) by several methods: TEM-SAED-EDS, SEM-EDS, FT-IR.

No other sources of Al and Si signals were found by Jim Millette.
I repeat, Millette proved only

kaolinite
Once again: he proved

kaolinite
Unambiguously. Beyond any doubt. These stacking platelets are simply

kaolinite!
Try to remember it. Deal with it These platelets are not platelets of some mystical form of aluminum (combined with some Si stuff), unknown to mankind. These platelets are particles of kaolinite, which is a pigment frequently used in paints or other mundane materials.

Kaolinite is a stable compound at low temperatures and cannot be separated into any components by mere soaking in some solvent.

Therefore, if there is any separation of Si and Al stuffs in MEK chip (which is questionable), this chip cannot be of the same kind as chips (a) to (d).
We are not sure that this is a Tnemec particle on rust, but it is still one of the good options, no matter that one single Fig. 17 shows aluminum. But this chip still can be another paint or another material.

Anyway, since chips (a) to (d) contained only kaolinite as a source of Al (and Si), they cannot be any thermite. As simple as that.

 

[Gamolon]

You really don´t get it do you?

All the chips in the paper are proposed thermitic chips, because the paper is about those chips, not some other chips. If you are still wondering about the other chips, go back to Harrit´s quote in my my previous post, and keep reading it over and over until you get it, or ask mommy to do it for you. I won´t waste more time on you.

There were no "other chips".

None of the red/gray chips that were attracted to the magnet turned out to be paint.

Every single red/gray chip that was attracted to the magnet and separated from the initial pile of dust was, according to them and their paper, a thermite concoction of some type.

Hence the following quote from their paper:

The collapses of the three tallest WTC buildings were
remarkable for their completeness, their near free-fall speed
[11] their striking radial symmetry [1, 12] and the surprisingly large volume of fine toxic dust [13] that was generated.
In order to better understand these features of the destruction, the authors initiated an examination of this dust. In June
2007, Dr. Steven Jones observed distinctive bi-layered chips,
with both a red and a gray layer, in a sample of the WTC
dust. Initially, it was suspected these might be dried paint
chips, but after closer inspection and testing, it was shown
that this was not the case. Further testing was then performed
on the red/gray chips in an attempt to ascertain their composition and properties. The authors also obtained and examined additional samples of WTC dust which had been collected by independent observers on, or very soon after, 9/11.
All of the samples examined contained these very small,
peculiar red/gray chips. Previous studies discussing observations of the WTC dust include reports by the RJ Lee Company [14], the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) [15], McGee
et al. [13] and Lioy et al. [16] Some of these studies confirmed the finding of iron-rich microspheres, which are also
peculiar [5, 8, 11, 13-15] but the red/gray chips analyzed in
this study have apparently not been discussed in previously
published reports. It is worth emphasizing that one sample
was collected about ten minutes after the collapse of the second Tower, so it cannot possibly have been contaminated by
clean-up operations [17].

Now according to you, Jones, Harrit, MM, and others, they supposedly discovered some of the red/gray chips gathered with the initial isolation method were paint or other materials.

This is what makes Jones' claim of "doing a resistivity test" to weed out red/gray paint chips, from the red/gray thermite chips a complete sham.

As I have stated before.

They pulled random red/gray chips out of their initial isolation pile, under the belief that EVERY SINGLE RED/GRAY CHIP they separated using the criteria listed on page 9, Section 2 was in fact some for of thermite concoction, and randomly ran certain tests on randomly selected chips FROM THE INITIAL ISOLATED PILE.

This is the only explanation that makes any sense.

They did not select random chip from the initial isolated pile and run resistivity tests on them, thus getting a pile of high and low resistivity red/gray chips.

They sterotyped the ENTIRE PILE OF ISOLATED red/gray chips into being a thermite concoction based on random tests done on random red/gray chips from the pile they isolated because they ALREADY BELIEVED THAT ALL THE RED/GRAY CHIPS WERE A THERMITE CONCOCTION.

Jones claim that Millette didn't run the resistivity tests on his chips and therefore has the wrong chips is complete and utter baloney because they proved that ALL the red/gray chips isolated were a thermite concoction.

 

[jtl]

Kminek:
Kaolinite is a stable compound at low temperatures and cannot be separated into any components by mere soaking in some solvent.
Therefore, if there is any separation of Si and Al stuffs in MEK chip (which is questionable), this chip cannot be of the same kind as chips (a) to (d). We are not sure that this is a Tnemec particle on rust, but it is still one of the good options, no matter that one single Fig. 17 shows aluminum. But this chip still can be another paint or another material.

Kminek, the platelets in Harrit´s chips DO separate in solvent, so they CANNOT be kaolin. In the most blatant case of circular reasoning I have ever seen, your response is repeating yet again the MEK handwave; you assume that no kaolin in the MEK chip must mean it cannot be the same as the other chips.

And since you obviously do not have a proposed WTC primer including aluminum for your new variant of the MEK handwave, you have been reduced to suggesting some unknown paint or "other material".

Do you really think you have given a valid and convincing argument?

It is up to you Kminek if you want to keep acting this way, but maybe you should take a break from this forum and go over our last few posts alone and in private.

 

[jtl]

Gamolon: they proved that ALL the red/gray chips isolated were a thermite concoction.

Gamolon has taken a really bold step with his flat out statement of thermitic proof, and that is good for him. The discussion on this forum does lead to that conclusion but I am not ready to agree to such a bold statement, because I would like to see some challenge to the conclusion of reduced iron spheres before I accept. And I would also like to see some experiment with ignited paints on metallic surfaces in a DSC to see if we can get spheres.

Too bad that Millette has refused Harrit´s challenge.

 

[DGM]

Kminek, the platelets in Harrit´s chips DO separate in solvent, so they CANNOT be kaolin.

And they show this in the paper where? Have you actually ever read this paper or are you just hoping it supports what you are saying?

 

[Spanx]

Too bad that Millette has refused Harrit´s challenge.

And there you have it in a nutshell, everyone must dance to the truther tune

 

[Gamolon]

Gamolon has taken a really bold step with his flat out statement of thermitic proof, and that is good for him. The discussion on this forum does lead to that conclusion but I am not ready to agree to such a bold statement, because I would like to see some challenge to the conclusion of reduced iron spheres before I accept. And I would also like to see some experiment with ignited paints on metallic surfaces in a DSC to see if we can get spheres.

Too bad that Millette has refused Harrit´s challenge.

Wrong!

According to them, they proved it. I don't agree with it one bit.

Funny how you picked that particular quote instead of the one directly above it in the same post. How dishonest of you.

Every single red/gray chip that was attracted to the magnet and separated from the initial pile of dust was, according to them and their paper, a thermite concoction of some type.

 

[jtl]

Gamolon: Funny how you picked that particular quote instead of the one directly above it in the same post. How dishonest of you.

You began your post saying:

Every single red/gray chip that was attracted to the magnet and separated from the initial pile of dust was, according to them and their paper, a thermite concoction of some type.

And then you ended your post by agreeing with them:

they proved that ALL the red/gray chips isolated were a thermite concoction

In the context of the whole post you agreed with them when you said they "proved" it. Don´t get angry at me.

Now you say:

According to them, they proved it. I don't agree with it one bit.

OK, you have added a qualifier, correction noted.

 

[Redwood]

Ivan Kminek:
Kaolinite is a stable compound at low temperatures and cannot be separated into any components by mere soaking in some solvent.

Therefore, if there is any separation of Si and Al stuffs in MEK chip (which is questionable), this chip cannot be of the same kind as chips (a) to (d). We are not sure that this is a Tnemec particle on rust, but it is still one of the good options, no matter that one single Fig. 17 shows aluminum. But this chip still can be another paint or another material.

Kminek, the platelets in Harrit´s chips DO separate in solvent, so they CANNOT be kaolin. In the most blatant case of circular reasoning I have ever seen, your response is repeating yet again the MEK handwave; you assume that no kaolin in the MEK chip must mean it cannot be the same as the other chips.

And since you obviously do not have a proposed WTC primer including aluminum for your new variant of the MEK handwave, you have been reduced to suggesting some unknown paint or "other material".

Do you really think you have given a valid and convincing argument?

It is up to you Kminek if you want to keep acting this way, but maybe you should take a break from this forum and go over our last few posts alone and in private.

Jtl, you really don't even know what "stable" means to a chemist, do you?

It has something to do with chemical structure. Think molecular and atomic level, not whether or not macroparticles can be physically broken apart. If you think that Harrit has proven that MEK dissolved some purported silicon compound associated with purported metallic aluminum in the chips, please cite your source. For the sake of intellectual curiousity, feel free to speculate as to the purpose of this silicon compound.

You know nothing about chemistry. You should stay away from subjects of which you know nothing, lest you make a fool of yourself. Your profile says you are much older than I guessed from your snotty teenage attitude. Nonetheless, it's not to late to enroll in courses in basic chemistry at a community college. Enroll. Study. Pass the course. Then, if you return here to comment, you'll at least have minimal competence in the subject.

 

[jtl]

MEK dissolved some purported silicon compound associated with purported metallic aluminum in the chips, please cite your source. For the sake of intellectual curiousity, feel free to speculate as to the purpose of this silicon compound.

I would REALLY like to know if the above level of IGNORANCE is prevalent on this forum after almost 4 years of arguing about Harrit´s paper. Do none of you know what the purpose of covering the aluminum with a silicon based coating would be?

 

[beachnut]

I would REALLY like to know if the above level of IGNORANCE is prevalent on this forum after almost 4 years of arguing about Harrit´s paper. Do none of you know what the purpose of covering the aluminum with a silicon based coating would be?

Projection...

Please tell us what Jones and Harrit fooled you with, as the purpose of silicon coating on Al. What is the party line for 911 truth on the thermite fantasy. Why add silicon? Is it pure silicon? Or what? Does it make the heat output less? Wait, the heat output of the Jones fantasy thermite, did not match thermite. oops, or excuses in the fake paper of thermite, 911 truth fantasy.

Level of ignorance with the silly smilies. There was no thermite used on 911. Do you understand you are supporting a silly fantasy? Now that is the ignorance you should be fighting, instead you support fantasy based no some old men's insane claims.

The Harrit paper is nonsense, you can't make thermite part of 911 by making up silly papers. The Millette paper was not needed to debunk Jones' nonsense of thermite. It is not a surprise you attack Millette, and ignore that there was no thermite on 911, no thermite found in the dust, and no evidence of thermite on steel recovered.

Ignorance? 911 truth has fantasy, and they reject science. Jones and Harriet faked their findings. Millette did not find thermite, and you are in the wrong thread, again. You can't control your failure at defending a silly fantasy, 11 years of failure.

I love the Millette paper, it uses the right stuff, Harrit and Jones, failures; wrong stuff.

http://www.nmsr.org/nmsr911.htm
911 truth has no clue what DSC is for, so they want Millette to do it, but they can't explain why? jtl, why? You can't explain simple chemistry, okay, advanced chemistry; have you taken chemistry yet? Get help on this subject, and start at 911, not 4 years after with a failed professor's fantasy.

Sad, 911 truth nuts, Jones and Ryan, make up more reasons for thermite, each time they find a substance they can say points to thermite. More sad, the fringe few who fall for the technobabble nonsense they make up. Gullible ignorance.
http://www.911myths.com/html/sol-gel__thermite_and_the_wtc.html
Burning plastic feeds insanity of Jones and Ryan to make up more nonsense.

What is next, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS news? Break the big inside job. When? Soon? 11 years, what is stopping 911 truth and you from making prime time? Why did they need 19 terrorists when they had super-nano-thermite? With silicon? lol - yes I can make thermite with sand. But 911 was done by 4 aircraft, and big fires. Fires bigger than 2,500 TONS of thermite. 2,500 TONS of thermite. lol, you are stuck with fantasy, I have fire - big fire beats the few failed firing neurons of Jones, filled with some nonsense.

Millette wins round 146.