LDS

[Janadele]

But it looks like there's much more to the dilemma than what I've read, this may take some time to read up on.

The Godhead of this earth... our Heavenly Father ( the actual Father of our Spiritual body.) Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit... are each subject to Eternal Law as are we all. Revelation from God, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ is always compatible with Eternal Law.

We each existed as an Intelligence of varying degrees of ability and power, previous to obtaining our Spiritual body. This body grew to maturity whilst housing our Intelligence, which also continued increasing in knowledge according to our diligence and righteousness.

In order to further progress, and receive an Immortal Resurrected body in which our Intelligence and Spiritual body will dwell, we choose to come to this earth on probation... to be judged on, and to take the consequences of, our choices.

Because of our imperfections we needed a redeemer, Jesus Christ offered and was accepted.

 

[Slowvehicle]

The Godhead of this earth... our Heavenly Father ( the actual Father of our Spiritual body.) Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit... are each subject to Eternal Law as are we all. Revelation from God, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ is always compatible with Eternal Law.

We each existed as an Intelligence of varying degrees of ability and power, previous to obtaining our Spiritual body. This body grew to maturity whilst housing our Intelligence, which also continued increasing in knowledge according to our diligence and righteousness.

In order to further progress, and receive an Immortal Resurrected body in which our Intelligence and Spiritual body will dwell, we choose to come to this earth on probation... to be judged on, and to take the consequences of, our choices.

Because of our imperfections we needed a redeemer, Jesus Christ offered and was accepted.

To what is this preachment a response?

 

[Sideroxylon]

...looks to me as if you are making not only the "I like it, to it must be true" argument, but the "there had to be a creator" argument,

However I was not.

which, inevitably, produces the problem of infinite regression...

Perhaps you could enlighten me.

Why yes it does result in a regression. And as David Hume pointed out, the idea that complex organized things require an intelligent designer is grounded in our experience of things in this world. We know a painting has a painter only through experience of such creation. Universe creation is a whole other kettle of fish.

 

[RandFan]

Because of our imperfections we needed a redeemer, Jesus Christ offered and was accepted.

Only you are responsible for what you do.

To get to the point of the wrongness of Christianity, because I think the teachings of Christianity are immoral. The central one is the most immoral of all, and that is the one of vicarious redemption. You can throw your sins onto somebody else, vulgarly known as scapegoating. In fact, originating as scapegoating in the same area, the same desert. I can pay your debt if I love you. I can serve your term in prison if I love you very much. I can volunteer to do that. I can’t take your sins away, because I can’t abolish your responsibility, and I shouldn’t offer to do so. Your responsibility has to stay with you. There’s no vicarious redemption.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

I love the Good Guy Lucifer meme.

 

[Pixel42]

The Godhead of this earth... our Heavenly Father ( the actual Father of our Spiritual body.) Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit... are each subject to Eternal Law as are we all. Revelation from God, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ is always compatible with Eternal Law.

We each existed as an Intelligence of varying degrees of ability and power, previous to obtaining our Spiritual body. This body grew to maturity whilst housing our Intelligence, which also continued increasing in knowledge according to our diligence and righteousness.

In order to further progress, and receive an Immortal Resurrected body in which our Intelligence and Spiritual body will dwell, we choose to come to this earth on probation... to be judged on, and to take the consequences of, our choices.

Because of our imperfections we needed a redeemer, Jesus Christ offered and was accepted.

Sez who?

 

[DragonLady]

Our earth time of a thousand years is but a day in the Lords time.

Uhm...Janadele, what exactly are you doing that you will have a thousand years of Earth time? Most of us hope to live to 100.

I might be ready to sign up for just about anything if it can guarantee me 1,000 quality years.

 

[MikeG]

.........We each existed as an Intelligence of varying degrees of ability and power, previous to obtaining our Spiritual body..................

This is meaningless jibbering idiocy. What on earth is a spiritual body? And for goodness sake.....we existed before we existed? Yeah, righto.

Mike

 

[Janadele]

Uhm...Janadele, what exactly are you doing that you will have a thousand years of Earth time? Most of us hope to live to 100.

I might be ready to sign up for just about anything if it can guarantee me 1,000 quality years.

Look to eternity Dragon Lady... that is our future

 

[MikeG]

......Because of our imperfections we needed a redeemer, Jesus Christ offered and was accepted.

Nope. Please refer to my previous jibbering idiocy quote. Who accepted anything from this bronze-age illiterate carpenter on my behalf? What right did they have to think they could do that in my name? No one needs a redeemer, in this sense of the word.

Janele, you make a magnificent case for atheism. Couldn't you come over here and say all this stuff to some of my friends who are wavering on the edge of agnosticism, please? They'll fall straight into the atheist camp instantly they hear it.

Mike

 

[Slowvehicle]

The teleological argument at least has an intuitive appeal.

How is that not a simple statement of, "I like it, therefore it must be true"?

What does it even mean for the creator of time-space to have any reckoning/sense of time?

*sigh* So, what created this "creator"?

However I was not.

Seems as if you, in fact, demonstrably were.

Why yes it does result in a regression. And as David Hume pointed out, the idea that complex organized things require an intelligent designer is grounded in our experience of things in this world. We know a painting has a painter only through experience of such creation. Universe creation is a whole other kettle of fish.

So, what created the "creator" you postulate? ({[And what created the creator of the "creator" you postulate?] And what created the creator of the creator of the "creatator" you postulate?} And what created the creator of the creator of the creator of the "creator"...)

It's Hume-ception!

Or is it "creators all the way down"?

How does postulating infinite regression do anything but set questions at one or more remove, without answering them?

 

[RandFan]

I can understand the argument that goes "whatever God does must be moral/good/right even if it leads to suffering and death, because we are His creation", but I don't agree with it; I think a god who has the capacity to cause suffering and does so, or who stands by whilst people suffer when he could intervene if he chose, is an evil character. Worshipping that sort of god is akin to sucking up to the school bully, in the hope he'll leave you alone at break-time.

Akiba: God is not good. He was never good. He was only on our side.

 

[carlitos]

The idea is that you do not feed babies meat. You feed them milk. Applied to theology, you don't give newcomers all of the information AKA secrets, or as Mormons call them, sacred. In any event, it is IMO immoral. It robs those who are investigating the church a chance to make an informed decision. Scientologists have a similar philosophy. I think the phrase predates Mormonism. Thanks Pup. I forgot the scripture. Doh!

One last thing, the meat is now online and hopefully more and more people will be able to make an informed decisions. IMO: God should not have secrets. It is a lie of omission.

This is how cults work.

"Milk before meat" seems kinda like the "fake it 'til you make it" philosophy in MLM circles.

Interesting, thanks.

How is that not a simple statement of, I like it, therefore it must be true"?

Dude, how is it? How does understanding the appeal of something make one a believer of its truth? I understand the appeal of MLMs and Islam. Does this make me a believer?

 

[Myriad]

In order to further progress, and receive an Immortal Resurrected body in which our Intelligence and Spiritual body will dwell, we choose to come to this earth on probation... to be judged on, and to take the consequences of, our choices.

It's a shame that so many Mormon leaders and some of their members are failing that test. Commanded to love, they instead campaign far from their own homes against the rights and happiness of homosexuals. To do so they ally with groups who in other circumstances would be the first to call them non-Christians and apostates.

Jesus met with prostitutes, Samaritans, and lepers, and did not fail to love. But remembering Christ's teachings upon seeing a skin of blackness or a devoted gay couple is apparently too great a challenge for some.

When you're on probation, what happens when you fail again?

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[jsfisher]

I know of no reference where "Satan is described as God's only begotton son".

I concede this point. In my haste, I misread the chapter from Moses and came to a conclusion not actually supported by the text. Odd, though the another confirmed the conclusion. So, no matter what we are left with the question who was Satan's father?

Because of our imperfections we needed a redeemer, Jesus Christ offered and was accepted.

That is the traditional Christian view point, but doesn't the LDS Church add that extra little twist that you can be redeemed even after death. Makes most of the Church's teachings irrelevant.

 

[abaddon]

To what is this preachment a response?

It's a troll. It doesn't have to respond to anything. Bots tend to post non-sequiturs.

 

[abaddon]

Look to eternity Dragon Lady... that is our future

"God is one in us, and we are one in him." It's pointless gibberish.

 

[Jomante]

Can a mod please move the discussion RandFan/Agatha and I are having to a separate thread?

(starting from 3353 and subsequent responses)

 

[carlitos]

Can a mod please move the discussion RandFan/Agatha and I are having to a separate thread?

If you want such a thing to happen, you have to report the posts. Mods don't read every thread for suggestions. If it's a bunch of posts, report the first one and explain. Good luck.

 

[Slowvehicle]

<SNIP>

Dude, how is it? How does understanding the appeal of something make one a believer of its truth? I understand the appeal of MLMs and Islam. Does this make me a believer?

Carlitos, it seems to me that Sideroxylon (sp) is using the attractiveness of the teleological argument to demonstrate that there must have been a "creator"...not just admitting the appeal, but bootstrapping an argument on the fact of the appeal. Am I missing something?