JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

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"Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (1859–1930), best known as the author of Sherlock Holmes stories but also a devout spiritualist, was entirely convinced by a set of photographs apparently showing two young girls from Cottingley in Yorkshire playing with a group of tiny, translucent fairies. To demonstrate his unshakeable belief in the spirit world, he published The Coming of the Fairies in 1922. Doyle's book lays out the story of the photographs, their supposed provenance, and the implications of their existence.
Featuring an original extract from a 1920 article from The Liverpool Echo about Doyle and the fairy photographs, this quirky and fascinating book allows us to get inside the mind of an intelligent, highly respected man who happened to believe in fairies."

http://www.ebookmall.com/ebook/the-coming-of-the-fairies/arthur-conan-doyle/9781446358382


Not sure of your point here, as ACD wasn't a photo analyst and was someone who was mistaken to believe in things not seen (fairies). Much like you claim the existence of the Pitzer film that no one has seen, or that the Z-film was altered, which no one has seen...

Hank
 
"Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (1859–1930), best known as the author of Sherlock Holmes stories but also a devout spiritualist...

This doesn't help your case. You're telling us Conan Doyle was heavily biased into thinking the photos were of real fairies. That doesn't really establish him as a person well motivated to study them objectively.

In any case, what does this have to do with JFK photos? You're just distracting from your repeated demands for evidence that they were "authenticated," then backpedaling away from the authentication. If you're trying to tell us some of the JFK photographic evidence was faked not by altering the photographs but by photographing props and passing them off as real photos (i.e., as the fairy photos were faked), then you've already tried twice to do that, and failed both times.

Unless you have any new evidence, this is already well plowed soil.
 
Do cite the statement of a recognized photographic expert that says that, using 1963 technology, a film could be altered with no artifact of alteration detectable.

This supposed "fact" is simply a claim you made up on the spot and won't be able to prove to anyone's satisfaction (except possibly your own).

Hank


Yoo hoo, Robert? You there?

You do need to substantiate your claims, you know (Arthur Conan Doyle doesn't count - not a photo expert and never said anything about the Z-film).

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8966477&postcount=8361

Hank
 
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But the Best Evidence is the body.


And Humes, Finck, and Boswell had the body in front of them when they performed the autopsy, and determined there was a small entry wound in the back of the head and a large entry wound in the right top of the head.

The autopsy report survives to this day, and those conclusions were reviewed by a number of experts, looking at the authenticated materials like the autopsy x-rays and photographs. Those experts reached the same conclusions as the original autopsists, JFK had a small wound in the back of the head, and a large wound in the right top of the head.

Live with it, Robert.

Again, all this is old ground. The evidence hasn't changed any in that regard in the past six months.

Hank
 
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I'd hate to think you were bringing all this up without actually knowing anything about Doyle's hobbies.

He's trying desperately to prove that photographs can be faked by various means, in this case by photographing inanimate props or cutouts, that aren't readily apparent to photo experts. So he has to desperately try to style Sir Arthur Conan Doyle as a "photo expert" or as some sort of scientist or Real Smart Guy. Then he can tell us that if Conan Doyle was fooled, then we have no basis for saying that photo experts decades later, and for several subsequent decades, should have found evidence of fakery in the JFK photos. He tries to shift the burden of proof while admitting he has none.

Conan Doyle was a fiction writer, a politician, and a very enthusiastic Spiritualist. Not the best authority you could choose for authenticating a photo purporting to be of a fairy. Of the three photography-related companies Conan Doyle asked, two refused to authenticate the photos but admitted they were unable to tell how they had been faked while the third outright told him they thought they were fake.

This is Robert Prey's typical approach to expert testimony. He finds some crackpot who happens to agree with him, then tells us we have to believe him because the crackpot is really some kind of expert. In this case, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle is a "leading intellectual." But because Robert failed to realize Conan Doyle was heavily biased and had no pertinent expertise, he'll try for about a page to rehabilitate that claim, then he'll go through a bunch of gyrations to disentangle himself from any "expert" claim on this evidence and tell us the evidence stands alone on its own merits -- i.e., that the obviously fake fairy photos are "objective" evidence that photos can be undetectably faked.

And around and around we go. He'll probably get another 20-50 pages of attention in this thread before he has to resort to throwing lunch meat.
 
...He'll probably get another 20-50 pages of attention in this thread before he has to resort to throwing lunch meat.


He's really refraining from his favorite deli delight since it's been pointed out repeatedly he utilizes that comeback when he has no other.

It's a concession of defeat, and we all know it. And Robert knows we know it.

Hank
 
... This is Robert Prey's typical approach to expert testimony. He finds some crackpot who happens to agree with him, then tells us we have to believe him because the crackpot is really some kind of expert. In this case, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle is a "leading intellectual." But because Robert failed to realize Conan Doyle was heavily biased and had no pertinent expertise, he'll try for about a page to rehabilitate that claim, then he'll go through a bunch of gyrations to disentangle himself from any "expert" claim on this evidence and tell us the evidence stands alone on its own merits -- i.e., that the obviously fake fairy photos are "objective" evidence that photos can be undetectably faked...


For example, exactly 101 pages pages ago (page 110), Robert was attempting to defend Jack White's photographic expertise. Since White is a laughingstock who was exposed by the HSCA has having no qualifications worthy of note, it's pretty clear to most people that White isn't a photographic expert.

Below are just two rebuttals of Robert's attempts to claim expert status for Jack White.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8126831&postcount=4370

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8126986&postcount=4377
 
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For example, exactly 101 pages pages ago (page 110), Robert was attempting to defend Jack White's photographic expertise.

And Tom Wilson, and Mara Zebest and others in the Birther thread. It's not really important to rehash those discussions except to note that Robert's engagement with expert testimony follows a very predictable story arc. He's just trying to throw another person on the pile.

What I find oddly amusing is Robert's ability to separate the alleged evidentiary value of an expert's judgment from the question of whether the witness is expert enough to support the finding. This particular dissonance allows him to concede that the witness has indeed been disqualified as any sort of relevant expert, yet somehow what that expert has judged to be true should still have value. In a strange turnabout, he starts to use expert testimony correctly, but then (inappropriately) invokes the fallacy of argument from authority when his expert is refuted.
 
He's trying desperately to prove that photographs can be faked by various means, in this case by photographing inanimate props or cutouts, that aren't readily apparent to photo experts. So he has to desperately try to style Sir Arthur Conan Doyle as a "photo expert" or as some sort of scientist or Real Smart Guy. Then he can tell us that if Conan Doyle was fooled, then we have no basis for saying that photo experts decades later, and for several subsequent decades, should have found evidence of fakery in the JFK photos. He tries to shift the burden of proof while admitting he has none.

Conan Doyle was a fiction writer, a politician, and a very enthusiastic Spiritualist. Not the best authority you could choose for authenticating a photo purporting to be of a fairy. Of the three photography-related companies Conan Doyle asked, two refused to authenticate the photos but admitted they were unable to tell how they had been faked while the third outright told him they thought they were fake.

This is Robert Prey's typical approach to expert testimony. He finds some crackpot who happens to agree with him, then tells us we have to believe him because the crackpot is really some kind of expert. In this case, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle is a "leading intellectual." But because Robert failed to realize Conan Doyle was heavily biased and had no pertinent expertise, he'll try for about a page to rehabilitate that claim, then he'll go through a bunch of gyrations to disentangle himself from any "expert" claim on this evidence and tell us the evidence stands alone on its own merits -- i.e., that the obviously fake fairy photos are "objective" evidence that photos can be undetectably faked.

And around and around we go. He'll probably get another 20-50 pages of attention in this thread before he has to resort to throwing lunch meat.

Another swing and another miss. It was author James Randi who described Doyle as a leading intellectual as well as everything else you are desperately trying to discredit. It's a simple lesson. The autopsy pictures are not faked but the body pictured in the autopsy pictures -- the unvalidated bootleg photos, that is. That's the lesson of the Cottingley Fairies. Get it now????

Nah!
 
Not sure of your point here, as ACD wasn't a photo analyst and was someone who was mistaken to believe in things not seen (fairies). Much like you claim the existence of the Pitzer film that no one has seen, or that the Z-film was altered, which no one has seen...

Hank

That delusional Deep Thinkers are so easily conned.

"The photographs were examined by a number of experts in such matters, who declared that there was no evidence that the original photographic negatives had been retouched, or that they were double exposures, or anything other manner of forgery. Since there was no trickery in the photographic aspect and the two “reliable witnesses” told the same story, everyone believed them. The world had irrefutable proof that fairies existed. The grandfathers of the kinds of people that believe space aliens come down to abduct our cattle on a nightly basis were absolutely convinced that fairies from another dimension inhabited our world."

http://www.theironskeptic.com/articles/fairy/fairy.htm
 
And Humes, Finck, and Boswell had the body in front of them when they performed the autopsy, and determined there was a small entry wound in the back of the head and a large entry wound in the right top of the head.

The autopsy report survives to this day, and those conclusions were reviewed by a number of experts, looking at the authenticated materials like the autopsy x-rays and photographs. Those experts reached the same conclusions as the original autopsists, JFK had a small wound in the back of the head, and a large wound in the right top of the head.

Live with it, Robert.

Again, all this is old ground. The evidence hasn't changed any in that regard in the past six months.

Hank

The autopsy x-rays and photos were never authenticated and specifically contrary to the observations of all the Parkland doctors and many others. Live with it.
 
Robert, I know you will ignore this, but Hank did state why said links were there - to remind you that the points you were raising had previously been raised by you and throughly dealt with. His point is a subtle one I'm sure you'll agree - that you really have no interest in anything that contradicts your previously established positions.

A Link is not an argument. A link is a substitute for an argument. If this is going over old ground, it is because someone else has dug it up.
 
<insult snipped and reported>

"The photographs were examined by a number of experts in such matters..."

http://www.theironskeptic.com/articles/fairy/fairy.htm

That didn't address the question. The question was whether Arthur Conan Doyle had any relevant expertise. You have styled him as some sort of cognoscenti who should have been able to detect a forgery. You have failed to qualify him as an expert. Further, you have failed to address the proposition that he was heavily biased to accept those photos as authentic.

To address the question you did attempt to answer with this post, you correctly note that the photographs were examined by "experts in such matters," but you fail to identify what "such matters" were. That is important in qualifying the expertise. You correctly note that your experts were unable to find any evidence of a certain few methods then known of faking photographs, but you omit that none of them believed the photos to be genuine. There is a difference between failing to find evidence of fakery and belief in reality. You dishonestly report that the experts passed the photos as genuine. You further fail to report that not all experts agreed there were no signs of forgery. And finally you fail to report that the experts were asked for certificates of authenticity and explicitly declined to provide them.

And since all these points were previously covered in this thread not just a few posts previously, kindly explain why you're still foisting them.
 
The autopsy x-rays and photos were never authenticated and specifically contrary to the observations of all the Parkland doctors and many others. Live with it.

Yes they wereauthenticated as being of JFK.
If you ave any objective evdence they contain anything else provide it now.

Otherwise any observations to the contrary are innacurate.,

You are the only one who seems unable to live with this.

By the way you have yet to provide posts where I declare myself victorious or call myself a scholar. Perhaps it would be wise to admit subjective statements are faliable and of limited value.
 
The O'Donnell nonsense is a new claim by you, but easily shown to be less than reliable:




http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2007/09/truth-about-joe-odonnell.html

You're reduced to quoting a senile man who took credit for other's work and who also created some big - again, easily disproven - whoppers surrounding the assassination, like conversing with Jackie Kennedy just after she disembarked from Air Force 1 in Washington and gotten into the ambulance and before it took off for Bethesda. That entire scene was broadcast live, and tape survives to this day. No such encounter occurs.

Conclusion: O'Donnell's statements about the assassination are not reliable.

No big deal -- as far as I can tell, he might be one of your better witnesses.

As Dale Myers writes in the article cited above:




You are doing just that.

Hank

A witness that agrees with scores of other witnesses. You don't like that so you seek to discredit by resorting via ad hominem attack. Routine and predictable of those who lack valid evidence for their own views.
 
That delusional Deep Thinkers are so easily conned.

"The photographs were examined by a number of experts in such matters, who declared that there was no evidence that the original photographic negatives had been retouched, or that they were double exposures, or anything other manner of forgery. Since there was no trickery in the photographic aspect and the two “reliable witnesses” told the same story, everyone believed them. The world had irrefutable proof that fairies existed. The grandfathers of the kinds of people that believe space aliens come down to abduct our cattle on a nightly basis were absolutely convinced that fairies from another dimension inhabited our world."

http://www.theironskeptic.com/articles/fairy/fairy.htm
More cherry picking. Why did you not quote this, from the same article:
What little physical evidence exists is always weak and open to interpretation; however, the testimony of reliable witnesses is bulletproof, according to people that believe in the paranormal.
It applies equally to what you propose here.
 
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