Merged No Planer calls for scientific study / Missiles of 9/11

[yankee451]

I doubt it.

Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, usually to other people. Thus, projection involves imagining or projecting the belief that others originate those feelings.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

 

[Kid Eager]

Is that a round about way of saying 'I can't do physics'? Come on now - you guys are the ones saying a jet wing can slice through the steel, you must have a reason for it other than because you saw it on the TeeVee.

Where's all the math?

Why do you even want the math? You've already said you don't believe physics or math, so it serves little other than entertainment purposes.

You can search back through this and other 9/11 threads and find it yourself, if you are serious.

 

[Kid Eager]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

 

[beachnut]

Is that a round about way of saying 'I can't do physics'? Come on now - you guys are the ones saying a jet wing can slice through the steel, you must have a reason for it other than because you saw it on the TeeVee.

Where's all the math?

LOL, you can't do the math, so you ask for the math.

The WTC shell at the impact areas can stop a kinetic energy impact from an aircraft equal to 386,000,000 joules.

The impacts on 911 were 2,740,000,000 joules for flight 11, and 4,380,000,000 joules for flight 175.

Means there was no way for 11 and 175 to be stopped by the WTC shell.

This is reality, you have fantasy. You ask for the math, but can't do math. How ironic.

What are your numbers?

All engineers can see a high speed plane can pass through the shell of the WTC as designed. It is your job to show the math that a plane can't enter the WTC as designed on 911.

Did you know if the shell had been thicker, it would stop the planes? The WTC would stop a slow speed plane.

Like Flight 93, if it had crashed slow, there would be more parts that look more familiar, but it was high speed, and there were no parts you normally see because as pilots we try to crash as the slowest possible speed.

 

[Justin39640]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Um, no. You don't trust/can't do math? Yet, you're gonna sit here and tell us exactly what cruise missile (still in its test phase) caused the impact damage in PA? Like I said, I highly doubt your sincerity.

 

[Justin39640]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Ha! I almost posted the same thing lol

 

[beachnut]

I'd say you need to do some more reading.

lol, you picked a missle for your fantasy that was not deployed until 2009. Good job.

 

[yankee451]

Well, if you look up posts by R.Mackey, IIRC he already has done the math, but allow me to give you an example of a softer metal penetrating a harder metal, from my own experience: Using a lead .410 slug, I put a hole in a piece of sheet steel from a distance of ~50 feet. It really is all about speed.

I'd rather see the math than your examples - a jet is not a bullet, and that analogy may work for the pre-teens of JREF but it won't fly for a grow-up. Kinetic penetrating weapons like these all work for the same reason - by focusing their mass and energy on the smallest point possible they obtain maximum penetration.

It's an apples to zucchini comparison and you'll need to do much better. And please lets dispense of the other lame examples often used by the true-believers:

Kamikazes
Steel-slicing water jets
rail guns
the straw through a tree in a hurricane

They're all bogus comparisons which if you try to argue, will only make your spanking even worse than it already is.

 

[TheRedWorm]

I'd rather see the math than your examples - a jet is not a bullet, and that analogy may work for the pre-teens of JREF but it won't fly for a grow-up. Kinetic penetrating weapons like these all work for the same reason - by focusing their mass and energy on the smallest point possible they obtain maximum penetration.

It's an apples to zucchini comparison and you'll need to do much better. And please lets dispense of the other lame examples often used by the true-believers:

Kamikazes
Steel-slicing water jets
rail guns
the straw through a tree in a hurricane

They're all bogus comparisons which if you try to argue, will only make your spanking even worse than it already is.

Why are any of those analogies false? You do realize how fast the jets were going, and how little steel they actually had to damage to enter the towers, right?

 

[Justin39640]

I'd rather see the math than your examples - a jet is not a bullet, and that analogy may work for the pre-teens of JREF but it won't fly for a grow-up. Kinetic penetrating weapons like these all work for the same reason - by focusing their mass and energy on the smallest point possible they obtain maximum penetration.

And, what do you think the thin leading edge of a wing does with all that mass behind it?

It's an apples to zucchini comparison and you'll need to do much better...

Actually, it's not.

... And please lets dispense of the other lame examples often used by the true-believers:

Kamikazes
Steel-slicing water jets
rail guns
the straw through a tree in a hurricane

They're all bogus comparisons which if you try to argue, will only make your spanking even worse than it already is.

Wrong again, I see.

 

[beachnut]

Why are any of those analogies false? You do realize how fast the jets were going, and how little steel they actually had to damage to enter the towers, right?

What is he willing to stop that is going 400 to 590 mph? Can he stop a fingernail, a hand, a human? A jet plane filled with 60,000 pound of jet fuel. He has no clue how fast, and what the energy is.

He is completely ignorant of E=1/2mv²
Has no clue V² is the killer.

 

[TheRedWorm]

What is he willing to stop that is going 400 to 590 mph? Can he stop a fingernail, a hand, a human? A jet plane filled with 60,000 pound of jet fuel. He has no clue how fast, and what the energy is.

He is completely ignorant of E=1/2mv²
Has no clue V² is the killer.

It is pretty obvious that he's not had a lot of time on the range. Speed definitely kills.

 

[Justin39640]

lol, you picked a missle for your fantasy that was not deployed until 2009. Good job.

I guess that's what happens when you google "cruise missile" in 2012. The newest crap pops up first. lol

 

[yankee451]

lol, you picked a missle for your fantasy that was not deployed until 2009. Good job.

The Defense Acquisition Executive signed the Acquisition Decision Memorandum authorizing entry into Low Rate
Initial Production (LRIP) on December 21, 2001, but the inital approval date was 1/31/2001 - which means the missiles were production-ready at that time.

http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/logisti...ASSM (JASSM JASSM-ER) - SAR - 31 DEC 2011.pdf

 

[Justin39640]

The Defense Acquisition Executive signed the Acquisition Decision Memorandum authorizing entry into Low Rate
Initial Production (LRIP) on December 21, 2001 which means the missiles were production-ready.

http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/logisti...ASSM (JASSM JASSM-ER) - SAR - 31 DEC 2011.pdf

Massive problems. I thought you wanted to know the truth? Don't look like it.

 

[yankee451]

It is pretty obvious that he's not had a lot of time on the range. Speed definitely kills.

It's pretty obvious a jet with a 160 foot wingspan isn't a bullet, and its pretty obvious you don't have a clue how the physics works.

Focusing the largest amount of momentum on the smallest possible area of the targed provdes the greatest penetration
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_ballistics

 

[Justin39640]

It's pretty obvious a jet with a 160 foot wingspan isn't a bullet, and its pretty obvious you don't have a clue how the physics works.

Look at the leading edge from the side. Then reconsider your statement here.

 

[yankee451]

Massive problems. I thought you wanted to know the truth? Don't look like it.

but the inital approval date was 1/31/2001

They'd been successfully testing them for two years prior to the December date when they began producing for their contract. They were of course operational at the time the contract was approved in January.

 

[TheRedWorm]

It's pretty obvious a jet with a 160 foot wingspan isn't a bullet, and its pretty obvious you don't have a clue how the physics works.

It didn't need maximum penetration, just enough to enter the building(s). Also, for someone who says others don't know physics, you have yet to post any math.

 

[beachnut]

The Defense Acquisition Executive signed the Acquisition Decision Memorandum authorizing entry into Low Rate
Initial Production (LRIP) on December 21, 2001, but the inital approval date was 1/31/2001 - which means the missiles were production-ready at that time.

http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/logisti...ASSM (JASSM JASSM-ER) - SAR - 31 DEC 2011.pdf

This is funny, I did procurement on a small scale and you are trying to school us on procurement? This is getting worse; please read your source for facts next time.

LOL, the quantity of missiles delivered in 2001, 0. Like zero, nil, nothing. you are unique.

Got it. You did not read your own source. Good job.

You don't know what LRIP means. Like physics.

Do you understand the JASSM does not have enough KE to do the damage seen on 911? There is not enough room on a missile to store the two engines found in Pa. This is silly.

You are now claiming test missiles did 911 for flight 93? How?