'god' no longer active within human events

[King of the Americas]

To Atlas:

I am pretty sure, I have left many clues as to what or who I think 'god' is...it's a 'they', firstly, and secondly they exist in the heavens.

A long time ago, they created us in their image, and left us to procreate here on earth. Occasionally they stepped in to deliver justice/laws and probably some forms of technology.

Now, I see them as mere watchers as to what is going on, here. I think they are waiting on us to make our rightful claim to the universe, waiting for us to take our place beside them, in the heavens...

These 'they' that I speak of are those entities behind all the ufo phenomonia that have been captured in video footage, photographs, and even ancient artistry. Flying saucers, movable stars, angels, you name the decription, I think they are all of the same origin.

However, I think man's religion is where the 'all powerful', 'omnipresent', "God" came from. I think our biggest mistake was to worship that which assisted us... We have always made the mistake of idolization, rather than emulization when it comes to 'god'...

I hold that 'god' has always and does yet still exist, but that it was only when we made them into the 'it' that so many refer to as "God", that 'he' perceivedly let us down.

 

[Psiload]

Re: To Atlas:

I am pretty sure, I have left many clues as to what or who I think 'god' is...it's a 'they', firstly, and secondly they exist in the heavens.

A long time ago, they created us in their image, and left us to procreate here on earth. Occasionally they stepped in to deliver justice/laws and probably some forms of technology.

Now, I see them as mere watchers as to what is going on, here. I think they are waiting on us to make our rightful claim to the universe, waiting for us to take our place beside them, in the heavens...

These 'they' that I speak of are those entities behind all the ufo phenomonia that have been captured in video footage, photographs, and even ancient artistry. Flying saucers, movable stars, angels, you name the decription, I think they are all of the same origin.

However, I think man's religion is where the 'all powerful', 'omnipresent', "God" came from. I think our biggest mistake was to worship that which assisted us... We have always made the mistake of idolization, rather than immulization when it comes to 'god'...

I hold that 'god' has always and does yet still exist, but that it was only when we made them into the 'it' that so many refer to as "God", that 'he' perceivedly let us down.

King of the Americas posted(in his opening post):

*This is NOT an attempt to revisit my ages old UFO days. It is simply an observation of the reality of the matter, given "God's" inaction(s) as of late.

Note: I, personally, have never made the mistake immulization.

It'll make you go blind if you're not careful... at least that's what my mother told me.

 

[King of the Americas]

To Psiload:

I think you know where I am coming from, I just amended my previous beliefs to take into consideration that 'they' aren't hands-on anymore...

 

[Psiload]

Re: To Psiload:

I think you know where I am coming from, I just amended my previous beliefs to take into consideration that 'they' aren't hands-on anymore...

Or 'tentacles-on'...

as the case may be.

 

[Atlas]

I am pretty sure, I have left many clues as to what or who I think 'god' is...it's a 'they', firstly, and secondly they exist in the heavens. ...

These 'they' that I speak of are those entities behind all the ufo phenomonia...

Ok, I get it now. I'm glad I asked.

It's all pretty bizarre from my point of view. But I suppose you're used to skeptics saying that.

Do you find yourself isolated in this view or are you part of a larger community? If there is a group with similar views to your own, what are the books and websites that convince you?

Maybe you could point me to a particular thread here in which you ideas were discussed more fully.

I don't wish to pry but you you do seem open to discussion. How old are you and how long have you believed these things. Was it a personal experience that convinced you or some preponderence of evidence?

 

[King of the Americas]

To Psiload:

...Tenticles...?

Maybe...but given that 'they' created us in their image, I was thinking something more humaniod.

 

[King of the Americas]

To Atlas:

Do you find yourself isolated in this view or are you part of a larger community? If there is a group with similar views to your own, what are the books and websites that convince you?

*Oh, there are LOTS of people who think they have a pretty good bead on what or who 'god' really is, or are... I can't say that I agree 'exactly' with anyone as to what 'they' are, to us. I have never 'seen' them persay, with mine own eyes, and I wouldn't say I am convienced of anything, other than their existance.

Maybe you could point me to a particular thread here in which you ideas were discussed more fully.

*I think you could probably find them HERE, in this thread... I believe there is ample evidence scattered through out the historical record that suggests a Heavenly originated 'god', that had someing to do with us being here.

I don't wish to pry but you you do seem open to discussion. How old are you and how long have you believed these things. Was it a personal experience that convinced you or some preponderence of evidence?

*I am now 29, and I was raised Catholic, and taught to 'believe' in an all-present, all-knowing, Super 'G'od who could and would aid all those who believed in his son Jesus... I read the Bible, but mostly focused on the Gospels. After a falling out with some meaningless rules behind a Confirmation ritual, I left the Church, and began studing the Bible more like a history book, along with other 'historical' sources. What I found was that many people over the ages had encounters with 'heavenly agents', many of the times these things were attempting to aid Man along the way, providing improved manners of technology and law. This was a 'belief', until I saw some things in the sky that I could not explain. When I was like 24, a friend of mine and I were out in the country, near the Red River, when we saw no less than 7 airborne 'crafts'...or things, that resembled star-like objects move in ways no terresterial-piloted vehicle could. They performed manuvers like making right angles turns with a constant velocity, and at one point 2 headed toward one another- became one - and then seperated again into two different things again...

At that point, my friend's perception confirmed for me that I saw what I saw, and that my 'belief' in some extra-terresterial, heavenly figure/entity became what I now "know".

Now, I KNOW 'god(s)' exist. I just don't know what their purpose is any longer. I mean, I thought I had a pretty good bead their motives, but when tens of thousands of innocent children get sweep out to sea, for no other reason than they wanted to make sand castles...I see these entities are mere 'watchers' of Humanity, not unlike our scientists would watch Bears feed on Salmon. We would indeed just sit back and watch as a bigger stronger Bear killed another Bear just for the Salmon he was eating... Moreover, I think there is something remarkable about the simularity in the stories that abductees would tell, and how our scientists tag and track endangered animals.

Given all this I wouldn't call what it is I understand as a 'religious', and I doubt ANY religion would have me in their facility. And, I can't say there is a single document, or website that led me to my current stance on the issue. I am merely an accumulation of that which I have been subjected to...

 

[Atlas]

KOA,

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I remember being out at sea in my Navy days and seeing in the sky what I guessed was a sattelite. Then it made a 90 degree turn. Pretty wild. My mind raced in wonder.

I never did find out what it was. I wondered if the ship manuevered under me but the background stars didn't change.

Your sighting sounds like mine times ten.

Itr seems likely that if this unexplained event had not occurred you would have developed a different perception of the human reality. But since you did see it has become the centerpiece of all that is unexplainable.

I'm trying to pick out an event from my own past to match the power of your experience. I think there is one. Like you it happened in my 20s. It meant something deeply true about God. I've written about it recently. Over time is has come to mean something very different from what I had first constructed. Your views changed as well with the extra fact of the tsunami. It changed your perception of the motives of the beings in the heavens from interveners to mere observers.

It is interesting how different people relate to their world. Some relate knowing that the unexplained personal experience is deeply suspect, others feel it is the most reliable information received.

I've got about 23 years on you and my path has taken many turns. While your conclusions make me smile as I look back many of my own do too. And the fact that I've come closer to a science informed physicalism in my 50s doesn't mean to me that I've got all the answers now. What seems more likely to me is that we're both wrong.

Good luck and I hope you get all the years you need to find your truth.

 

[King of the Americas]

To Atlas:

So what grand insights about 'god' have you gathered here, in your 50+ years, that you have been granted?

I mean, 'I' am not certain as to what god's role in within human events, but I am quite certain that they exist, in some form or another.

 

[Atlas]

So what grand insights about 'god' have you gathered here, in your 50+ years, that you have been granted?

I mean, 'I' am not certain as to what god's role in within human events, but I am quite certain that they exist, in some form or another.

I'm sure you would find it all most unsatisfying.

While I take it as truth that all cultures of human being down through time have had experiences of a spiritual nature I do not credit those experiences to anything outside the individual.

I overstate this fact with a shorthand expression: God is a feeling.

We do not know where hunger or yearning exist. They arise interiorly because of a chemical balance or imbalance depending on one's perspective. This seems to be true of the feelings we have that are not generated through the 5 senses. For instance, headache arises somewhat differently than a skin burn. Fear arises differently than the sight of a snake. One experience originates entirely from within - that's all I'm saying.

The interior experience has profound affect on our understanding and perception of the universe. The feeling that beingness is benign can give us a notion of a loving god or gods and enable us to proceed fearlessly into the fog that is our future. Other feelings give rise to other notions that can trap individuals in nonaction or what the concieve as sinlessness.

Well, I'm getting a bit farther afield than is warranted here. What I'm trying to say is that more and more, for me, god is being replaced by a concept of the "ideal". That ideal is a combination of the things in your life worth living for and dying for; family, country, self, as well as concepts of freedom, god, and love. God and love are similar in that they do not exist in the universe external to the individual - they are human feelings - that is ALL we know.

As far as ghosts, aliens, psipower and other otherworldly and supernatural forces, powers and energies - I am very skeptical they exist as interventionists in human affairs. But I do believe that life probably arose on other planets somewhere in the cosmos. So your concept of Watcher is the most likely of all unlikely woo.

 

[King of the Americas]

To Atlas:

I think you are talking about the metaphysical "God"...I am talking or speaking of that which is real.

What 'I' perceived, matched that what my buddy saw. While each of us took something different, in our 'feelings' of the matter, both of us saw what we saw-something-that disobeyed what we believed were the laws of flight.

What I saw was not a feeling...it was an exterior entity of gifted ability, beyond that which I could associate with Human technology. Now, what I saw GAVE me a feeing or a sense my own humanity or smallness, but I wouldn't say that my feeling masked or created that which I was seeing.

We ARE being 'watched' now, and I almost take offense to the term "woo woo" used to characterize such an understanding of the events at hand...then again, I know where I am posting this.

 

[username]

Re: To Atlas:

I think you are talking about the metaphysical "God"...I am talking or speaking of that which is real.

What 'I' perceived, matched that what my buddy saw. While each of us took something different, in our 'feelings' of the matter, both of us saw what we saw-something-that disobeyed what we believed were the laws of flight.

What I saw was not a feeling...it was an exterior entity of gifted ability, beyond that which I could associate with Human technology. Now, what I saw GAVE me a feeing or a sense my own humanity or smallness, but I wouldn't say that my feeling masked or created that which I was seeing.

We ARE being 'watched' now, and I almost take offense to the term "woo woo" used to characterize such an understanding of the events at hand...then again, I know where I am posting this.

In my early 20s I was in the Marines stationed on a remote post in Saudi Arabia. I wasn't under the influence of any mind altering substance, wasn't particularly sleep deprived etc. I saw a 'ghost'. First just one, then another, then another. I asked the Marine standing guard with me if he had seen anything unusual. He said "no, why?". I didn't answer. A few minutes later he asked "What did you think you saw? Was it..." and he then exactly described the appearance of these 'ghosts'.

Soon there were literally hundreds of identical looking things in our vision.

Anyway, nothing came of the event and I recall at least a year later asking this guy to recount what we experienced to make sure my mind wasn't inventing things.

So, what did I actually see? Does my experience and the experience of the other Marine prove the existence of supernatural entities? Was it a mass hallucination? Is there some other explanation?

Ultimately I have no idea.

I can't really explain what I and he saw or why we saw it. I mean if it was ghosts, why were they visible to us? What were they trying to accomplish? I have no idea.

I am an atheist so I don't believe in the supernatural. So, how do I reconcile what I experienced with my being an atheist/skeptic?

I simply accept that I experienced something, but don't know what it was.

I resist drawing any conclusions from an event I don't comprehend that could have many explanations in favor of drawing conclusions from that which I can comprehend and where the explanations are more clear.

 

[King of the Americas]

To username:

Your's in an interesting story, one only unlike my story in the state of your mind.

Both my buddy and I were of a clear mind, not under the influence of any mind altering substance.

Although the secondary source to your perception(s) SHOULD have allowed you some credence into you believing what your eyes saw.

I could only hope that you are an open-minded athest...

Nothing erks me worse than someone who is concrete in their beliefs, utterly immovable in their stance. It seems to me, that you are unwillling to accept your findings, even if they/your perceptions were clouded by drugs.

I liken this unto someone not believing in snow, then they get blasted and 'experience' a snow fall, only to turn around and state, "It wasn't snowing, even if my sober friend says so, AND my not-so-fresh-memory remembers it!"

I mean, if it looks like a ducks, quacks like a duck, AND a secondary source confirms that HE saw and heard the thing quack...then it is likely that you should begin believing in ducks...

 

[Kopji]

KOA
I understand the part about you and your friend seeing something in the sky, but how do you get from there to being sure that these are piloted by god-like beings who are studying us?

 

[username]

Re: To username:

Your's in an interesting story, one only unlike my story in the state of your mind.

I believe you misread my post. It appears you are under the impression that I was under the influence of drugs when I stated I was not under the influence of any mind altering substances. Easy enough mistake to make, I just wanted to point out the discrepancy for clarity sake.

Although the secondary source to your perception(s) SHOULD have allowed you some credence into you believing what your eyes saw.

The secondary, confirming source lends a lot of weight to the fact that I did in fact perceive something.

I could only hope that you are an open-minded athest...

I am what is sometimes labelled a weak atheist. I do not say "There is no god" as a strong atheist would, rather I say I have no belief in any god. In other words I do not actively believe in the nonexistence of something, rather I simply lack any belief in the existence of that something.

Nothing erks me worse than someone who is concrete in their beliefs, utterly immovable in their stance. It seems to me, that you are unwillling to accept your findings, even if they/your perceptions were clouded by drugs.

I am completely willing to accept that I had an experience beyond my ability to explain or understand. My point is that I am unable to explain it and I see no reason why I have to be able to explain it in order to believe I experienced it. I could offer a possible explanation that the 'ghosts' we saw were in fact ghosts, the disembodied spirits of formerly emodied persons. I could also offer as an explanation that this was a vision from god. I could also offer as an explanation that this was a satanic deception. I could also speculate that this was the work of an alien race. I could also speculate that this was a shared hallucination. I could speculate that my buddy and I were experimented on by the US military without our knowledge. I could speculate any number of things in order to try and explain what it was that I experienced. None of the potential explanations I can come up with seem to have supporting evidence that makes one possibility more likely than the next.

I liken this unto someone not believing in snow, then they get blasted and 'experience' a snow fall, only to turn around and state, "It wasn't snowing, even if my sober friend says so, AND my not-so-fresh-memory remembers it!"

Well I understand, but what if it isn't snow, just cold cotton balls? If I had never before experienced snow and had nothing concrete to line my experience up with, but had heard that snow is cold and white then pretty much any experience I had involving cold, white substances falling from the sky could be labelled as snow. That is my point. What I experienced does fit with multiple explanations from ghosts to the devil to aliens to mental states to whatever. I have no way of knowing which of those possible explanations is correct or if the correct explanation is one I haven't even considered yet.

I mean, if it looks like a ducks, quacks like a duck, AND a secondary source confirms that HE saw and heard the thing quack...then it is likely that you should begin believing in ducks...

So, on the basis of the experience I related what should I start believing in? God? the Devil? Aliens? Mass hallucinations? Something else?

I believe I experienced what I believe I experienced, but since I don't know what I experienced I have nothing further to believe in.

I will not assign a speculative explanation to my experience is my point. It appears to me that your beliefs that you have articulated are based upon assigning an arbitrary explanation to what you experienced.

I do not challenge the validity of your experience, I only question the explantion you have assigned to that experience.

 

[Atlas]

Re: To Atlas:

I think you are talking about the metaphysical "God".

You are correct.

...I am talking or speaking of that which is real.

What 'I' perceived, matched that what my buddy saw. While each of us took something different, in our 'feelings' of the matter, both of us saw what we saw-something-that disobeyed what we believed were the laws of flight.

What I saw was not a feeling...it was an exterior entity of gifted ability, beyond that which I could associate with Human technology. Now, what I saw GAVE me a feeing or a sense my own humanity or smallness, but I wouldn't say that my feeling masked or created that which I was seeing.

What you understood to be real was a perception of an unnatural event. Perhaps unexplained event is better usage. Username and I and many others on these boards have had similar "WTF" experiences. You immediately knew something that was not information contained in the experience.... ALIENS. And you next comment is further conjecture which was not derived from information contained in the experience.

We ARE being 'watched' now,

It's doubtful that Aliens would leave a contingent of watchers here far from home. There is little that would be gained that periodic visits would not also offer and with better resource management.

and I almost take offense to the term "woo woo" used to characterize such an understanding of the events at hand...then again, I know where I am posting this.

I understand that woo woo is a pejoritive but you invite it. Not with any admission of a strange experience or what it seemed like. You invite it with your total acceptence of your own interpretation of that unidentified object. That is, you don't know what happened and you come away with godlike aliens are watching us. And the watching part is only because the aliens failed to live up to your expectations during a natural catastrophe - the tsunami. Until then they intervened because of motives you thought you understood. Username's experience is potentially of a much higher woo factor but ends up not so because he does not confuse his perception of "ghosts" with the reality of "ghosts". For you conjecture on perception is reality.

 

[Kopji]

... and what if the duck is a decoy duck?

 

[Crossbow]

Richard, I'm not one to be creative, and I'm certainly not a good writer, but in the least, I don't steal other people's work. If in the case I do utilize someone's "wise" words, I cite my sources, and follow the rules of the forum.

You should too!

(This really calls for some admin action, but I'll see if RichardG will be a good little boy and correct his error)

Thanks much Khalid01!

I figured that RickyG's post was far too erudite for it to be something that he wrote but I had no idea of where he lifted it from.

 

[King of the Americas]

To username & Kopji:

As I said before, I don't know 'exactly' what I saw, other than to say that what it was did stuff I did not know that human pilots could do, and they performed feats that disobeyed the laws of flight and physics as I now know them...

What I saw moved in concert with one another, and were not acting in what I would deem a random or chaotic manner. And this is where I made my first 'leap' in drawing a conclusion. These concerted movements were driven by 'an intelligence' of some kind.

The second 'leap' I take is to compare these findings to what others have seen in the heavens. Certainly, I am no stranger to UFO sightings, and have seen images of 'angels' posted in ancient paintings, caught on video and in countless photographic images.

And thusly, I arrive at the conclusion that, 'something' is up there, and that this something's ability surpasses our own, in their right angled turns at a constant velocity and the 2 becoming ONE...thus my 'god' labeling.

I guess, I have a problem with you 'skeptics' NOT taking a logical step forward in trying to understand these findings. I mean, while I don't know 'exactly' what I saw, I know I saw something, and the things these things could do demonstrate a super-human ability. "username" suggested, even in lou of his experiences, that he didn't have any proof that the supernatural exists...when in fact he & a friend witnessed 'something' supernatural.

I find this intellectually irresponsible. I mean to have findings, and not act or accumulate them into the rest of your understanding seems at the very least, lazy. I mean, you've got a piece of the puzzle in your hand, and yet you refuse to accept that it belongs in the puzzle your have in front of you.

 

[Kimpatsu]

Re: To username & Kopji:

As I said before, I don't know 'exactly' what I saw, other than to say that what it was did stuff I did not know that human pilots could do, and they performed feats that disobeyed the laws of flight and physics as I now know them...

Then you don't know much physics. Either that, or make room for the possibility that you deceived yourself as to what you saw. Both possibilities are far more likely than a supernatural explanation.