2 questions re 1120 'Missing bodies' from WTC 1&2 & media complicity in mass murder

[Jbui]

If you look at the link in post 31 you can see the towers are still standing in the back ground.

Which bodies were thrown 200m due to the collapse ?

I'm not sure if you understood what I meant - the debris field had 1300 feet radius, small pieces of bones were picked two blocks away. So why don't you give it your best shot:
1. Floor collapses, person inside tower is pinned between the floors.
2.
3.
4. few small pieces of bones of the person are found two blocks away
- please fill in what happened in stages 2. & 3.

 

[ozeco41]

...The old story: Falling into footprint is proof for CD, and falling outside is proof for CD, too.
Just as the fighter jets were both stood down AND shot down flight 93.
Just as thermite must have been used because there were no sounds of explosions, AND thermite is an explosive.
Just as Jowenko is an expert to be believed when he said 7 was CD, and was wrong and not an expert when he said 1 and 2 were not.

Just as G McQ and T Sz assumed CD to create a gap for top tower to fall through to cause a big jolt and - surprise surprise their circular logic proved their starting assumption...


NEXT....

BTW Jbui - Chandler is one of the charter members of the "Get the Collapse Mechanism Wrong School of Truthers". Each of his claims starts on a false premise then builds a house of cards on that wrong foundation. A good exercise for you to see if you can identify the fault yourself - or search this forum for explanations.

Hint: Some of Chandler's starting point errors are the same as Szamboti's.

AND if you want to start building an understanding of WTC Twin Towers Collapse mechanism - so you will be able to see where Chandler et al go wrong - try this post of mine from 2010. It is a bit rough round the edges - written from memory of better written posts I originally made in 2007-2008 which were lost when the forum was closed down.
http://www.rationalskepticism.org/c...-obligatory-9-11-thread-t515-680.html#p135852 (My avatar picture the same but username "econ41")

 

[The Big Dog]

just explain why the debris ejected at higher speed than the collapse progressed. Resorting to ad hominem attack is just a way to say you have no arguments.

Well, you would expect that, because the debris was falling at free fall while the collapse front was not.

See also

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/component/mitmultimedia/?&videoid=218

 

[ozeco41]

just explain why the debris ejected at higher speed than the collapse progressed. Resorting to ad hominem attack is just a way to say you have no arguments.

You are making it clear that you are a truther.

This confirms it:

I'm not sure if you understood what I meant - the debris field had 1300 feet radius, small pieces of bones were picked two blocks away. So why don't you give it your best shot:
1. Floor collapses, person inside tower is pinned between the floors.
2.
3.
4. few small pieces of bones of the person are found two blocks away
- please fill in what happened in stages 2. & 3.

you are the one making the claim and it is your burden of proof to support the claim. Not our job to chase you all over, off and around the topic answering questions.

BTW if you haven't read your script - the step after we answer your question is that you "move the goalposts" and ask another different question. That "game" then goes on indefinitely. We have played the game far too long and you are about 6 years late jointing.

Try following the link I gave in the previous post and start to learn. If you do there are any of us who will help - once you show that you are genuine.

 

[Jbui]

Easily. Stored potential energy, like a spring. The arrow travels much faster than the drawing of the bow. Go squeeze an orange pip.

if this was the case, we should see this happening on the videos. can you paste a link?

How do you arrive at that figure? Looks like you just picked it out of thin air. Ejecta from WTC1 struck WTC7. Why shouldn't body parts be part of that ejecta?

well, WTC7 e.g. had debris radius of 20 meters, and the debris field in most pictures in collapsed buildings look about the same.

Of course there is no reason why human parts should not be in the same ejecta as computer parts etc. Question is the same as above, how did they start flying 200m away from the buildingin in small pieces, when they were supposed to be pinned between collapsing floors.

Because you become part of the debris that's being thrown around.

And then some more of the building lands on your already dismembered body. And those remains are maybe subject to necessarily crude clean-up operations.

Jbui, welcome, but it really isn't good enough to say "I don't see how.....".

I get the impression that all I hear is "I don't see how.....". I repeat my self: how did they start flying 200m away from the building in small pieces, when they were supposed to be pinned between collapsing floors.

 

[Spanx]

I'm not sure if you understood what I meant - the debris field had 1300 feet radius, small pieces of bones were picked two blocks away. So why don't you give it your best shot:
1. Floor collapses, person inside tower is pinned between the floors.
2.
3.
4. few small pieces of bones of the person are found two blocks away
- please fill in what happened in stages 2. & 3.

Can you tell me when the bones were found ?

 

[Jbui]

Wow, oh man.

When I drop stuff it falls at 100% acceleration, so it has no energy at all! I am going to start an exercise program called "energetic falling."

/Wow.

while wowing, I suggest you take a deep breath and think a little: when acceleration is 1G, potential energy is transformed 100% to kinetic energy, and no energy at all is used to crush stuff. When acceleration is 0,7G...

Usually when you break stuff, the tool that you use to hit the object does not accelerate, does not move move steadily, but decelerates very fast, when kinetic energy is used to break the object.

 

[Jbui]

You should use JREF's wonderful search function. This particular argument has been discussed-t0-death repeatedly. Once you've availed yourself of the discussions so far, if you have unanswered questions have at it



The ejecta is lightweight material being forced out of weak spots in the WTC exterior. The descending structure would've acted like a piston forcing lightweight sideways from the weakest points.

HTH
Fitz

I have heard this argument many times. But for some reason there is no video evidence of this "piston". All there is is a dust cloud. "Show me the piston." If you look closely,you can actually see that the "collapse line" is about 5-10 floors further dow in one corner of the building - how does that work with the piston theory?

 

[Oystein]

just explain why the debris ejected at higher speed than the collapse progressed. Resorting to ad hominem attack is just a way to say you have no arguments.

A. What debris achieved what velocity? Got numbers?
B. What speed did the collapse progress at at the same time? Got numbers?
C. Is the number you have for A > the number you have for B - Yes, No, or Don't know?

D. Slowly squeeze an orange. Why does the juice get ejected at higher speed than you squeeze?

 

[Oystein]

I have heard this argument many times. But for some reason there is no video evidence of this "piston". All there is is a dust cloud. "Show me the piston." If you look closely,you can actually see that the "collapse line" is about 5-10 floors further dow in one corner of the building - how does that work with the piston theory?

What exactly do you mean by "collapse line"?

 

[The Big Dog]

while wowing, I suggest you take a deep breath and think a little: when acceleration is 1G, potential energy is transformed 100% to kinetic energy, and no energy at all is used to crush stuff. When acceleration is 0,7G...

Usually when you break stuff, the tool that you use to hit the object does not accelerate, does not move move steadily, but decelerates very fast, when kinetic energy is used to break the object.

Bro? Hi! 70 percent of the available energy was not expended in accelerating the mass. Where in the hell did you get that? Gravity did it!

Further, you mention 30 percent energy available to break stuff, but then mention a 300 percent safety factor. That makes no sense whatsoever, 30 percent of what? 300 percent of what? My bumper is designed to withstand 300 percent of its weight and I was only going 30 percent of my car's to speed of 150 when I crashed, so the bumper should be fine, right?

Lolz

 

[Spanx]

I will assume post 66 has been missed.

The funny thing is, when I find myself on roofs in coastal city's, I always find bones.

I always wonder how they get there. It just doesn't make sense , bones can't fly !

Just for the record it is no joke that I find bones on roofs

 

[Oystein]

Bro? Hi! 70 percent of the available energy was not expended in accelerating the mass. Where in the hell did you get that? Gravity did it!
...

Uhm actually he's right (at least what he means):
When all that is accelerating a body down is gravity, and it accelerates at .7g, then 70% of the potential energy is "expended" in accelerating the mass, i.e. konverted to kinetic energy.
That kinetic energy is of course not gone and wasted, it just does its final work of crushing things further below.
In the meantime, the other 30% are plenty to overcome structural resistance, both in terms of energy and in terms of forces involved.

Further, you mention 30 percent energy available to break stuff, but then mention a 300 percent safety factor. That makes no sense whatsoever, 30 percent of what? 300 percent of what?

30% of converted potential energy
300% of capacity, i.e. force.

Or

30% of apples
300% of oranges.

 

[Jbui]

A body, a desk, a computer is expected to survive, intact, a collapse from almost a thousand feet up? All that falling, twisting steel acted like a giant meat grinder, shredding (not "blowing up") everything it came into contact with.

Ejections are from collisions. The outer walls had nowhere else to go but outwards for the most part.

collisions result in "ejections" which go maybe 10-20 degrees from falling straight down. WTC ejections were all 90 horizontal ejections. Here's a clip of freefalling objects colliding, most you get is maybe 30-40 degrees "ejection"

Don't forget that the jumpers (before the collapses) pretty much exploded when they hit the ground. Would you expect a human body, in free fall for a thousand feet, to remain intact when it hits the concrete plaza or streets, too? C'mon.

You're proposing silly ideas so yes some of us think that's kinda dumb. Just sayin'

You should go back and study just how fragile your body really is.

Congrats! it only took some twenty posts for someone to call me dumb you won the prize! According to the gore pic: "9/11 Jumper Pancaked on the Ground", it seems like the body is in one intact piece. And it fell what 300-400 meters?

 

[Oystein]

I will assume post 66 has been missed....

Easy pal, he's got a lot of posts to reply to, has only yet made it to #49

 

[Jbui]

Oh and the core needed the outer walls to stand and vise-versa. The core DID stand after the initial collapse for a few seconds. Too thin, too heavy, too tall, too damaged. It then collapsed too.

If the "spire" was not cut with cutter charges, it would have fallen to some direction, instead it dropped straight down.

sorry guys, gotta go to sleep, my baby boy will wake me up in 7 hours. Good night!

 

[The Big Dog]

Uhm actually he's right (at least what he means):
When all that is accelerating a body down is gravity, and it accelerates at .7g, then 70% of the potential energy is "expended" in accelerating the mass, i.e. konverted to kinetic energy.
That kinetic energy is of course not gone and wasted, it just does its final work of crushing things further below.
In the meantime, the other 30% are plenty to overcome structural resistance, both in terms of energy and in terms of forces involved.


30% of converted potential energy
300% of capacity, i.e. force.

Or

30% of apples
300% of oranges.

He seems to believe that the kinetic energy is wasted, hence his odd suggestion that only 30 percent of he energy is available to break stuff. Oh he'll, I don't know what the **** he is trying to say, all I know is that I'm going to smash my car into a wall at 30 percent of its top speed, be right back.

 

[Oystein]

If the "spire" was not cut with cutter charges, it would have fallen to some direction, instead it dropped straight down.

I could jump on this and do the classical (and almost required, in a skeptical forum) "...and you know this how? Got facts, logic, calculations, or just gut feeling?", but...

sorry guys, gotta go to sleep, my baby boy will wake me up in 7 hours. Good night!

...that approach would not end well, as you have a life to live, and too many opponents at once.

I suggest you try to focus at one claim at a time. Think very hard about which proposition you wish to convince us of - something that you are confident, that you think you have excellent objective reasons for, and stick to that point! Don't deviate from it yourself, and don't let others distract you from it. If a post could be re-written to begin with "But what about..." don't write it, or don't respond to it if someone else wrote it.

I suggest you go back to your own first posts and try to remember what your original point was that brought you here. Define it well, strip it of distracting detail, and go for it!

 

[Oystein]

He seems to believe that the kinetic energy is wasted, hence his odd suggestion that only 30 percent of he energy is available to break stuff.

And that is entirely correct (As long as the collapse is still progressing at 70% of g.)


[ETA](Nitpick: You might get hung up on the word "available". Of course 100% is "available" all the time, no more and no less, but only 30% is actually expended to break stuff while a=.7g)[/ETA]







(To be pedantic: As long as the center of gravity of the loose upper part is accelerating at 0.7g. The motion profile of the COG surely differs from that of the crush front or the roof, but again, it doesn't matter much at the level we are at if that is 70% or 80% or 60% or even 90% or 50% of g)

 

[Spanx]

If the "spire" was not cut with cutter charges, it would have fallen to some direction, instead it dropped straight down.

sorry guys, gotta go to sleep, my baby boy will wake me up in 7 hours. Good night!

I guess the spire would be the arial ? That's right, it goes straight down due to cutter charges.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoAD8HlrLZg&feature=youtube

Or does it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e6KTRh92wM&feature=youtube