General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

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PhantomWolf said:
Really? Palestine was under the control of the Ottoman Empire for about 500 years up until 1918 and was considered part of Southern Syria during most of that time, so when was it a independant state?
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I am also not sure what he means. In the 18th century a Bedouin named Daher el Omar created an effectively independent kingdom in part of the Galilee. It dissolved when he died. But its independence was really due to his actions, and not due to national inspirations of the local inhabitants. That is the reason that the kingdom did not really survive him.

In the 19'th century there was a short period when Egyptians controlled the land, and where in general harsh towards its inhabitants. But I am sure that this is not what he means.
 
John Mekki said:
I assume "hed" means "head".

Evidence?

BTW, the former US President did not rule out a nuclear strike on Iran.
What is the difference?
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This is the quote:
I personally wish that the Jews do not drive us to this war, as this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre or the Crusader wars. I believe that the number of volunteers from outside Palestine will be larger than Palestine's Arab population, for I know that volunteers will be arriving to us from [as far as] India, Afghanistan, and China to win the honor of martyrdom for the sake of Palestine ... You might be surprised to learn that hundreds of Englishmen expressed their wish to volunteer in the Arab armies to fight the Jews.
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As for the difference, I would venture that the former US president never implied that the US intends to use nuclear weapons against civilians. This is an interpretation you inserted.
 
I had presented a link earlier with that evidence but thank you Doctor Evil (you didn't go to 8 years of evil medical school to be called Mr Evil) as that makes it much clearer for everyone to see.
 
Jonnyclueless said:
I couldn't agre more with you about your arguments.
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Tu quoque logical fallacy

Which arguments, specifically, do you have in mind?



I didn't have to subscribe and it's exactly about that.
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As an regular reader of Haaretz.com I have, presumably, exceeded their monthly limit, of which I was previously unaware.

The Israeli press is freer to report honestly on events and debates inside Israel than most of the US/UK and other Western countries' press which trembles subserviently before powerful Israeli lobby groups.


It wasn't politicians, it was military commanders who were using it as a communications center. The IDF was able to monitor these communications.
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Ramez Harb was as much a politician as Benjamin Netanyahu.

Where in the article you linked to does it say the two bombed media buildings were military command centers?

Even die-hard Zionists wouldn't pretend that the IDF is an honest source of objective, accurate information about their military activities. Hopefully, with Palestine's now increased international status, alleged Israeli war crimes and human rights abuses will now be examined in court, where concrete evidence can be sifted through objectively, outside of propaganda apparatuses.

Himself. He was standing next to it and watched them.
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Please provide documentary evidence for Cooper's alleged claims.

Already did.
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No, you didn't. You have provided anecdotes and nothing that shows that the two targeted media buildings were military command centers or that targeted journalists' cars contained ongoing military operations


You go learn what evidence is and then come talk to us.
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What do you mean by "us"? I look forward to your sharing of any substantive evidence you are aware of that shows that bombing media buildings is permitted under the Genva conventions.

You also posted a link with no comments. That's considered spam.
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By whom?

What's your argument with the link about settlements? That it's OK for the PA to circumvent the peace process, but not Israel? Had the PA come to negotiate instead of trying to strong arm Israel, those settlements would not be built. But since there is no intent from their side to negotiate, that's what they get.
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Tu quoque logical fallacy

My argument about the settlements is that they are are aggressive, illegal land grabs, i.e theft.

I don't agree with it, but if you make your bed you lie in it.
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Which "bed", specifically, do you have in mind
 
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JihadJane said:
Tu quoque logical fallacy

Which arguments, specifically, do you have in mind?
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This post.


JihadJane said:
As an regular reader of Haaretz.com I have, presumably, exceeded their monthly limit, of which I was previously unaware.
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You didn't need to read the full article.

JihadJane said:
The Israeli press is freer to report honestly on events and debates inside Israel than most of the US/UK and other Western countries' press which trembles subserviently before powerful Israeli lobby groups.
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Nonsensical statement of opinion.

JihadJane said:
Ramez Harb was as much a politician as Benjamin Netanyahu.
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Nonsensical statement.

JihadJane said:
Where in the article you linked to does it say the two bombed media buildings were military command centers?
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Are you sure you're posting in the right thread?

JihadJane said:
Even die-hard Zionists wouldn't pretend that the IDF is an honest source of objective, accurate information about their military activities. Hopefully, with Palestine's now increased international status, alleged Israeli war crimes and human rights abuses will now be examined in court, where concrete evidence can be sifted through objectively, outside of propaganda apparatuses.
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More nonsense. Nothing could be further from the truth. Your opinion seems to be essentially the exact opposite of reality.


JihadJane said:
Please provide documentary evidence for Cooper's alleged claims.
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Already did. Go read the guys twitter feed that was quoted and sourced. I am sure you could at least manage that if nothing else.


JihadJane said:
No, you didn't. You have provided anecdotes and nothing that shows that the two targeted media buildings were military command centers or that targeted journalists' cars contained ongoing military operations
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It was their own leaders making the damn claim. This is just laughable.


JihadJane said:
What do you mean by "us"? I look forward to your sharing of any substantive evidence you are aware of that shows that bombing media buildings is permitted under the Genva conventions.
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No you don't. You just make nonsensical statements about the IDF and ISrael government being criminals. You don't accept any evidence. When presented with claims from the side you apologize for you won't even accept them.


JihadJane said:
Tu quoque logical fallacy

My argument about the settlements is that they are are aggressive, illegal land grabs, i.e theft.
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You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. Perhaps if there were a link to the w--. oh never mind, even that isn't of help. Your last statement pretty much allows me to rest my case.


JihadJane said:
Which "bed", specifically, do you have in mind
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Should I explain what an expression is for you? Is that how bad this situation is? I suppose 250 some pages of people demonstrating how there is no lang grab, there is no theft, there is nothing aggressive or illegal about their defense just isn't enough for you.

Time for you to go back on ignore since you can't contribute anything of use to the discussion other than making vague claims of theft and illegal activities.
 
a_unique_person said:
An aspiration for an independent state is what I was referring to.
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They were given the chance of an independant state in 1948 when the British ended their control over the area, they didn't like that they weren't getting the whole lot and started a war over it.

Half a pizza is better then none, they demanded the whole pie, and got left with a couple of slices for the price.
 
About that "Zio-spy" publicly executed and dragged through the streets behind a motorcycle...

His crime? Collaborating with Israel to pinpoint Hamas targets.

But the charge wasn't true, the militant's grieving widow told The News.

Actually, Badawi, 37, had spent the last four years in a Hamas prison under armed guard. He was tortured for seven months into confessing that he was working for Israel.
They burned (him) and broke his jaw and teeth, said his widow, Kholoud Badawi. He was hanged for 45 days by his arms and legs to make him confess. He confessed because of the torture.
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Is it any wonder Hamas is now respected internationally? Perhaps Chomsky can visit for a little anti-Imperialist photo op.
 
trustbutverify said:
About that "Zio-spy" publicly executed and dragged through the streets behind a motorcycle...



Is it any wonder Hamas is now respected internationally? Perhaps Chomsky can visit for a little anti-Imperialist photo op.
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I didn't hear that Hamas was respected internationally. When did that happen?

As for informers, the use of informers by Israel is well documented. Sometimes people don't like Hamas, and decide they would like to be rid of them. Hardly surprising. Other times people are blackmailed.
 
a_unique_person said:
As for informers, the use of informers by Israel is well documented. Sometimes people don't like Hamas, and decide they would like to be rid of them. Hardly surprising. Other times people are blackmailed.
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Totally Israel's fault! If they didn't use informers, then Hamas would not be forced to imprison and torture people until they confessed to being Israeli spies.
 
Jonnyclueless said:
Should I explain what an expression is for you? Is that how bad this situation is? I suppose 250 some pages of people demonstrating how there is no lang grab, there is no theft, there is nothing aggressive or illegal about their defense just isn't enough for you.
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Israel's illegal settelment program has been condemned by almost every country in the world.

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Harry Fear speaks to Islamic Jihad, investigating violent resistance and targeted assassinations - © http://GazaReport.com


 
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a_unique_person said:
I didn't hear that Hamas was respected internationally. When did that happen?
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Well people like Galloway support them and give them a free pass.

It's one of the primary reasons why there is a conflict at all instead of a negotiated solution.

If people supported those wanting to negotiate rather than those who only want to kill, than there would be a real Palestinian state today.
 
The Real News reports from Gaza

'Journalists targeted in Israeli attack'

This report contains graphic scenes. Viewer discretion is advised.

 
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