Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

[Straw Man]

No comments on Mitt Romney's computer generated COLB, Robert?

Why aren't birthers questioning it?

 

[Bob001]

....
"Did someone from the Hawaii Newspaper Agency in the summer of 2008 intentionally cut and paste blocks in a random fashion in order to sow confusion into "phonied up" August 12, 13, 14, 1961 microfilms?"
...

It shouldn't be necessary to respond to this. But just in case...

In the ancient pre-internet days, newspapers were microfilmed AND COPIED so years, decades, even centuries of newspapers could be widely distributed and conveniently stored. Probably every large university and public library in America used to have the full history of the New York Times available on microfilm, and local and state newspapers were available in the local public libraries. So if someone wanted to tamper with the Hawaiian newspapers on microfilm, they would have to tamper with EVERY COPY OF THE MICROFILM EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD, and do it in a way that would be completely undetectable. Does that sound likely?

http://guides.library.manoa.hawaii.edu/content.php?pid=111152&sid=837345
http://library.wcc.hawaii.edu/hni.html
http://www.bpl.org/research/microtext/DomesticNewspapers.pdf
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/s...thnicity=&labor=&material_type=&lccn=&rows=50

Etc., etc.

 

[Robert Prey]

It shouldn't be necessary to respond to this. But just in case...

In the ancient pre-internet days, newspapers were microfilmed AND COPIED so years, decades, even centuries of newspapers could be widely distributed and conveniently stored. Probably every large university and public library in America used to have the full history of the New York Times available on microfilm, and local and state newspapers were available in the local public libraries. So if someone wanted to tamper with the Hawaiian newspapers on microfilm, they would have to tamper with EVERY COPY OF THE MICROFILM EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD, and do it in a way that would be completely undetectable. Does that sound likely?

http://guides.library.manoa.hawaii.edu/content.php?pid=111152&sid=837345
http://library.wcc.hawaii.edu/hni.html
http://www.bpl.org/research/microtext/DomesticNewspapers.pdf
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/s...thnicity=&labor=&material_type=&lccn=&rows=50

Etc., etc.

Funny, but I don't see anything in those lists that includes the two papers in question from 1961.

 

[fromdownunder]

It shouldn't be necessary to respond to this. But just in case...

In the ancient pre-internet days, newspapers were microfilmed AND COPIED so years, decades, even centuries of newspapers could be widely distributed and conveniently stored.

Ah, but can you provide a copy of the "original" Microfilm?

Norm

 

[Arus808]

And you know why the american stinker article is just stupid?

The newspaper announcements were found by a BIRTHER (actually a PUMA), who pretty much agreed that the announcements prove that Obama was born in Hawaii.

And of course statements from Okubo (HDOH at the time), confirmed that the newspapers didn't get the Birth information from the public; it came from the hospitals.
http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/donald-youre-fired/

 

[Hans]

The news paper on MF is held at by the paper, University of Hawaii, Manoa & Hilo, the state libraries in 8-9 locations, University of Tokyo, Chaminade. And maybe a west coast Uni or 2

 

[JayUtah]

Funny, but I don't see anything in those lists that includes the two papers in question from 1961.

Funny, but I don't see anything in the strained, trumped-up "sow confusion" argument from your latest tabloid source that rises to the level of attention. It's a clear case of ad hoc creation of unsupported expectations solely for the purpose of creating the illusion of importance and suspicion. You left out the part where you justify those expectations. Without that, there is no argument.

Now before your long absence and subsequent return to abruptly change the subject, there were several questions on the table requiring your attention. Will you kindly please attend to them?

 

[Robert Prey]

The Mystery Deepens

Do we really know when Obama was born????

From: American Thinker

October 30, 2012
Just When Was Obama Born?
By Don Wilkie


"It is beyond any reasonable doubt that Neil Abercrombie, Governor of Hawaii, and Ann Dunham's girlfriends, Susan Blake and Maxine Box, have been telling falsehoods about the President's origins. It is also beyond any reasonable doubt that there are people within the Obama camp who have managed their fabrications. It now appears that Mary Toutonghi, Ann Dunham's sometime babysitter in Seattle, was also "managed."


"The sham marriage of Ann Dunham and Barack Obama, Sr. would have probably taken place in February of 1961, just before or after the baby was born. This would also mean that Barack Obama, Sr. the man, "married in name only," who has no physical resemblance to our president, could not be the biological father; there just wasn't enough time. For Obama Sr. to work as the real biological father, an early August birth date is about as soon as a child could be born. This would explain the story of an unlikely meeting in a Russian class and the rapid seduction of Ann. It would also explain why Obama's birth certificate appears to many experts to be a forgery. Obviously, if Obama was born in February 1961, the birth certificate would have to be "modified."
Is Mary's statement the "smoking gun"? Did she innocently reveal a truth the Obama camp has been fighting hard to keep covered up? She has never once mentioned seeing a newborn. It would stand to reason that if Obama was really just three weeks old when Mary first saw him, that would be what she would remember. A seven-month-old Obama in late August 1961 would make sense on several levels."


Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/10/just_when_was_obama_born.html#ixzz2AnUXo4iH

 

[Border Reiver]

Do we really know when Obama was born????

From: American Thinker

October 30, 2012
Just When Was Obama Born?
By Don Wilkie


<snip>

Obama was born August 4, 1961 in Hawaii, as documented in his birth Certificate.

Mr. Wilkie's incredulity is irrelevant - Obama's BC confirms when and where he was born. The gestation length is irrelevant as to when he was born, and given the existence of the newspaper announcements that corroborate everything, his speculation is ill-informed and pointless.

 

[Mudcat]

Do we really know when Obama was born????

From: American Thinker

October 30, 2012
Just When Was Obama Born?
By Don Wilkie


"It is beyond any reasonable doubt that Neil Abercrombie, Governor of Hawaii, and Ann Dunham's girlfriends, Susan Blake and Maxine Box, have been telling falsehoods about the President's origins. It is also beyond any reasonable doubt that there are people within the Obama camp who have managed their fabrications. It now appears that Mary Toutonghi, Ann Dunham's sometime babysitter in Seattle, was also "managed."


"The sham marriage of Ann Dunham and Barack Obama, Sr. would have probably taken place in February of 1961, just before or after the baby was born. This would also mean that Barack Obama, Sr. the man, "married in name only," who has no physical resemblance to our president, could not be the biological father; there just wasn't enough time. For Obama Sr. to work as the real biological father, an early August birth date is about as soon as a child could be born. This would explain the story of an unlikely meeting in a Russian class and the rapid seduction of Ann. It would also explain why Obama's birth certificate appears to many experts to be a forgery. Obviously, if Obama was born in February 1961, the birth certificate would have to be "modified."
Is Mary's statement the "smoking gun"? Did she innocently reveal a truth the Obama camp has been fighting hard to keep covered up? She has never once mentioned seeing a newborn. It would stand to reason that if Obama was really just three weeks old when Mary first saw him, that would be what she would remember. A seven-month-old Obama in late August 1961 would make sense on several levels."


Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/10/just_when_was_obama_born.html#ixzz2AnUXo4iH

...

...

...What is this, Robert? I don't even...

You are aware of this thing called a shotgun wedding?

Shotgun Wedding

A shotgun wedding is a form of forced marriage occasioned by an unplanned pregnancy. Some religions and cultures consider it a moral imperative to marry in such a situation, based on reasoning that premarital sex or out-of-wedlock births are sinful, not sanctioned by law, or otherwise stigmatized.[4] The phrase is an American colloquialism, though it is also used in other parts of the world.

It is based on a hyperbolic scenario in which the pregnant female's father resorts to coercion (such as threatening with a shotgun) to ensure that the male partner who caused the pregnancy goes through with it, sometimes even following the man to the altar to prevent his escape. The use of violent coercion to marry is no longer legal in the United States, although many anecdotal stories and folk songs record instances of such intimidation in the 18th and 19th centuries. Purposes of the wedding include recourse from the male for the act of impregnation and to ensure that the child is raised by both parents as well as to ensure that the woman has material means of support. In some cases, a major objective was the restoring of social honor to the mother.

Shotgun weddings have become less common as the stigma associated with out-of-wedlock births has gradually faded and the number of such births has increased; the increasing availability of birth control and abortion, as well as material support to unwed mothers such as welfare has reduced the perceived need for such measures.

They weren't exactly uncommon when Obama was born, either. So why is it suspicious in this case, if it is what happened?

 

[JayUtah]

Do we really know when Obama was born?

Do you intend to engage in any actual debate anymore in this thread, or shall we expect nothing more on the subject from you than the present spam-rants from tabloids? Tabloid speculation and frantic straw-grasping does not answer the questions open against you. This is devoid of substance even by the standards we've come to expect from Birthers.

 

[drewid]

The next birther step is opening up.
"We want Obama to publish proof of conception"

 

[JayUtah]

Judge Reid in Indiana vacated the trial, and in so doing ruled that none of the Birther witnesses presented therein was competent to testify on the matters presented before the court, i.e., the question of whether the PDF copy of the birth certificate was forged or whether any other copy was forged. Keeping to a perfect record, Birther "experts" have absolutely no legal qualification.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

Obama was born August 4, 1961 in Hawaii, as documented in his birth Certificate.

At 7:24 pm.

 

[TjW]

Obama was born August 4, 1961 in Hawaii, as documented in his birth Certificate.

At 7:24 pm.

That sounds suspicious to me. It's common knowledge that babies are always born in the wee hours of the morning.

 

[Agatha]

Do we really know when Obama was born????

From: American Thinker

October 30, 2012
Just When Was Obama Born?
By Don Wilkie

<snip>


"The sham marriage of Ann Dunham and Barack Obama, Sr. would have probably taken place in February of 1961... <more snippage of uninformed supposition>

The marriage of Stanley Ann Dunham and Barack Obama took place on February 2 1961, Ms Dunham was three months pregnant at the time. This is not new information, Robert. Are your sources that deliberately uninformed that they will not even bother to check marriage records?

If you dislike the president that 69 million people voted for, then vote against him next week. That is your recourse, according to your Constitution. If you dislike democracy and your constitution, there are plenty of less open, less democratic societies from which to choose, I'm sure one of them would allow you to immigrate.

 

[Straw Man]

Judge Reid in Indiana vacated the trial, and in so doing ruled that none of the Birther witnesses presented therein was competent to testify on the matters presented before the court, i.e., the question of whether the PDF copy of the birth certificate was forged or whether any other copy was forged. Keeping to a perfect record, Birther "experts" have absolutely no legal qualification.

Although that is the case, this does not seem to matter to Orly Taitz and her birther followers. According to her website, she's requesting a copy of the transcript of the trial and I forsee that she will try to submit it as evidence in one of her future debacles, and the birthers who follow her believe that it still equates to some sort of truth.

 

[Myron Proudfoot]

The marriage of Stanley Ann Dunham and Barack Obama took place on February 2 1961, Ms Dunham was three months pregnant at the time.

And not rare in the least. it was common knowledge that first babies could come at any time. it was only 2d and 3d children that took 9 months!

 

[Mojo]

Could someone explain why it would make any difference if Obama had been born in February 1961 rather than August? Hawaii had been a state since 1959, hadn't it? Why would there be any need for a huge conspiracy the change the date of birth by 6 months?

 

[Bob001]

Could someone explain why it would make any difference if Obama had been born in February 1961 rather than August? Hawaii had been a state since 1959, hadn't it? Why would there be any need for a huge conspiracy the change the date of birth by 6 months?

Because if the birth date was known to be off by six months it would raise doubts about where he was born and who his father was. But since there is no rational basis to doubt the validity of Hawaii's birth records, not to mention contemporaneous newspaper announcements and the recollections of specific, living people -- including the governor of Hawaii, who knew Obama's parents -- there is no reason to speculate about it, any more than to speculate that Mitt Romney was born in Mexico and smuggled across the border in a truckload of lettuce.