The crucifixion of Jesus Christ

[Astreja]

I am including a table that has the recommended loadweight capacity for donkeys based on their average height and weight.

Fascinating. Taking the midsize-model donkey (48") from the table gives a maximum load of about 140 pounds.

140 pounds was what I weighed in my mid-30s, and I'm a bit under 5'6." (I would *so* injure that donkey if I were to sit on it today, at a weight of just under 220 pounds.)

A quick analysis of BMI calculators and NBA statistics, and extrapolation based on the Metropolitan Life height and weight tables, indicates that a nominally healthy 6'8" individual, small frame, would weigh at least 180 pounds.

A 3-month old donkey wouldn't stand a chance of carrying Jesus into Jerusalem.

 

[pakeha]

...Yes, it is only through Jesus Christ, the crucified Jesus Christ, that we can go to Heaven and live for eternity with Him. Not only life here on earth but also in the afterlife. That is why I say that if we were to worship a god, we have to be sure that He is the only true God.

PC, why do you quote the bible?
You set it aside to accommodate the utterances of a medium, a medium so wicked as to fool people into thinking they are touching the wounds of Jesus.


PC, haven't you noticed every element you try to use to buttress your calendar falls flat?
The temperature, the fig tree and now this idea about the donkey have all left your speculation Passover was celebrated in August more untenable than before.

 

[Shiner]

PC, as others have already pointed out, no-one can ride a 3 month old donkey.
Here are a few other pertinent facts;

1: Donkeys are not native to north America.
2: Alberta Canada is a very cold place. (see link below)

For the entire province of Alberta, total snowfall in a year amounts to an average 140 centimetres, or 55 inches. Province-wide, Alberta averages 60 days annually when it snows.

http://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Canada/Alberta/snowfall-annual-average.php


3: Donkeys (the majority that are bred today, and most certainly the ones in use in biblical times) originated in north Africa and central to western Asia. A desert animal.

The origin of the ass like that of most domestic animals is lost in antiquity and it cannot be confidently stated from what species of wild ass it was derived. There are three races of wild asses in Asia, one of which is found in Syria, but they may all be referred to one species, Equus hemionus. The African species is East asinus, and good authorities consider our domestic asses to have descended from this, and to have been introduced at an early period into the entire Orient. The Sulaib Arabs of the Syrian desert, who have no horses, have a famous breed of swift and hardy gray asses which they assert they cross at intervals with the wild asses of the desert. It is not unlikely that domestic asses like dogs are the result of crosses with more than one wild species.
As a domestic animal it preceded the horse, which was first introduced into Egypt by the Hyksos about 1800 BC.

http://www.bible-history.com/isbe/A/ASS/ Do you like my source for that?


This means controlled breeding in a cold climate. You don't want a profit (baby donkey) to die because it was born in a metre of snow, so you allow them to breed 11-14 months before you would like the foal to be born. The reference you make to the Alberta breeders specifically states that they generally breed every second year. The reasons for this are obvious to me. It takes a few weeks at least for the female to become fertile again, but it's preferable to wait a few months for a better chance of impregnation.


What you are proving here is that your research skills are severely handicapped by your confirmation bias.


Donkey of the week awards

 

[Shiner]

Although basic training can be undertaken on a foal (like walking on a halter and being handled), they should not be used for working until they are at least 3 or 4 years old. Long-term damage to their bones, development and health can occur if they are used for working from a too early age.

http://www.nda.agric.za/docs/Infopaks/donkeys.htm


Frida and her 3 month old son Noah

 

[gabeygoat]

http://www.nda.agric.za/docs/Infopaks/donkeys.htm


Frida and her 3 month old son Noah

[qimg]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UEk0TtYDN3Y/UJRuV4VjqvI/AAAAAAAAA5c/ze05vnoko30/s460/264233475_a710e6b08a.jpg[/qimg]

hahaha, I could only imagine the chaos that would ensue if a giant Jesus tried to ride that little guy.

 

[SezMe]

PeaceCrusader, I'd like to pause for a moment and review this thread so far. To the best of my knowledge, ALL of your various claims have proven to be false. The Olympics. WWIII. 8' tall women in the UK. An imaginary person's imaginary inheritance. Donkeys. Jesus' birth and death dates. And probably more I've forgotten.

Now, PC, don't start debating any of these. Rather, I want to know what you conclude so far. You've been shown good research skills, it's been demonstrated that easily accessed information refutes your statements and you've been treated with far more respect than I could muster.

Does any of this bother you? Have you changed any of your "research" habits since Page 1? Have you changed you mind about anything? Have you recognized and absorbed any of the facts and their implications since you started this?

Again, don't start arguing any of the details. Rather I would like to hear your overview of the thread so far and its impact on you personally.

 

[pakeha]

PC, as others have already pointed out, no-one can ride a 3 month old donkey. (rest snipped for space)
...

Thanks for your brilliant overview of this noble beast and its history.

@Sezme-great idea!

 

[AdMan]

http://www.nda.agric.za/docs/Infopaks/donkeys.htm


Frida and her 3 month old son Noah

[qimg]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UEk0TtYDN3Y/UJRuV4VjqvI/AAAAAAAAA5c/ze05vnoko30/s460/264233475_a710e6b08a.jpg[/qimg]

LOL Yeah I can picture a 6'8" tall Jesus riding poor Noah.

By the way, that Jesus was a veritable giant is quite a claim. You'd think that would have merited even a tiny mention in the Gospels, wouldn't you? I think in the other thread someone said that Judas wouldn't have had to point him out with a kiss--everyone would have known it was the NBA dude.

Anyway, what's Ama's/KA's obsession with giants?

Oh, and PC, please address why you lied to us. Thanks.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

PeaceCrusader, I'd like to pause for a moment and review this thread so far. To the best of my knowledge, ALL of your various claims have proven to be false. The Olympics. WWIII. 8' tall women in the UK. An imaginary person's imaginary inheritance. Donkeys. Jesus' birth and death dates. And probably more I've forgotten.

Now, PC, don't start debating any of these. Rather, I want to know what you conclude so far. You've been shown good research skills, it's been demonstrated that easily accessed information refutes your statements and you've been treated with far more respect than I could muster.

Does any of this bother you? Have you changed any of your "research" habits since Page 1? Have you changed you mind about anything? Have you recognized and absorbed any of the facts and their implications since you started this?

Again, don't start arguing any of the details. Rather I would like to hear your overview of the thread so far and its impact on you personally.

Are ALL of my claims proven to be false?

I have accepted that the prophecy of the 2012 Olympic Games in London failed when it ended successfully on 08-12. My consolation is that there is still the threat of a world war starting at the Spratly Islands being claimed by the Philippines. The spirit of Ama has been telling us about this war, maybe since the 1980s.

You are wrong in saying about 8’ tall women in the UK. Angelina Imden says she is 7 feet tall. I was told that she is an heiress of the Helene Curtis fortune which she had relinquished. I became doubtful of her when she refused to correspond with me via snail mail, and that her location in England is eight hours away from the nearest city when asked by a listener of her whereabouts.

Do you believe that Jesus was crucified at Passover in March or April, or Nisan 14? I disagree because of the cursing of the fig tree, the linen cloth, and the donkey. Regarding the donkey, it cannot be at Nisan 14, a spring date, because the foal, a colt (male foal), was just born then. And one cannot ride on a new born. The colt may be weaned still after at least four months, about summer.

From http://www.albertadonkeyandmule.com/pdfs/foaling-out-the-jennet.pdf : “The donkey has a thick, fluffy coat which gives the appearance of warmth and hardiness compared to the horse foal, but such is not the case. Donkey foals are not very hardy and require shelter especially for the first two to four weeks of life. If a foal becomes soaked with rain he may easily become chilled only to contract bronchitis or pneumonia which are often fatal.”

Now, the jennet or the mother donkey might have carried Jesus from Mount of Olives to the gate of Jerusalem, and the colt, from thereon. Jesus was 6’8” tall and He could be heavy for the colt. But could He not make Himself light? Have you seen the UK magician Dynamo? He is small that a muscular man can easily pick him up but he could make himself very heavy that the muscular man could not even lift him up.

You have to be bothered yourself because you claim that ALL my “various claims have proven to be false.” Why don’t you read the results of my study from 1999 to 2003 regarding what Ama revealed to be the crucifixion date of Jesus – August 17? My proving this revelation together with the May 23 birth gave me the confidence what Ama said about the world war from the Philippines. And they are logically correct, like the Aristean calendar to be implemented in 2001. Although both did not materialize, they are there and ready to happen “in His time”, in God’s time. I learned to be trusting God instead of what I think is logically correct.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Did you know that is blatantly numerology?

Did you know your god will damn you to hellfire for practicing it?

Will you please cite, abaddon, why is it that I wrote is “blatant numerology”? Please tell us what you think is numerology.

So you know that there is hellfire. What do you think will the only true God do to those who do not believe in Him and do not obey His commandments?

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Lets get back to the basics. The header of this thread is The crucifixion of Jesus Christ. PC, can you provide any evidence at all that your version of Jesus even existed? If he did not exist, as many believe he could not have been crucified, and your whole discussion vanishes into a ball of logic.

So, show us SOME, ANY evidence that there was such a person. I bet you can't. And you won't even try. You will simply carry on in your la-la land existence where you are the only person on the Planet who is correct.

Norm

A person by the name of Jesus existed about 2000 years ago.

Were there Christians already in about 100 BC? During the Fall of Jerusalem to the Babylonians? During the time of King Solomon or King David?

When were Christians ever mentioned? When did Rome adopted Christianity as its state religion?

Please read about the “Historicity of Jesus” in Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_Jesus .

 

[Pixel42]

You have to be bothered yourself because you claim that ALL my “various claims have proven to be false.” Why don’t you read the results of my study from 1999 to 2003 regarding what Ama revealed to be the crucifixion date of Jesus – August 17?

Several people have read, and utterly demolished, your study. It is, not to put too fine a point on it, utter bollocks.

We understand that you remain convinced that this particular "Ama" revelation is correct despite all the evidence to the contrary, but you must understand that everyone else can see for themselves that it is nonsense.

 

[pakeha]

Are ALL of my claims proven to be false?

I have accepted that the prophecy of the 2012 Olympic Games in London failed when it ended successfully on 08-12. My consolation is that there is still the threat of a world war starting at the Spratly Islands being claimed by the Philippines. The spirit of Ama has been telling us about this war, maybe since the 1980s.

No spirit, PC, but a medium.
What does the bible say about mediums?

You are wrong in saying about 8’ tall women in the UK. Angelina Imden says she is 7 feet tall. I was told that she is an heiress of the Helene Curtis fortune which she had relinquished. I became doubtful of her when she refused to correspond with me via snail mail, and that her location in England is eight hours away from the nearest city when asked by a listener of her whereabouts.

Haven't you grasped this character is fiction?
Like Reneliniyindi?
Why don't you admit the whole tale is a crude hoax?

Do you believe that Jesus was crucified at Passover in March or April, or Nisan 14? I disagree because of the cursing of the fig tree, the linen cloth, and the donkey.

PC, it is clear you haven't read the refutations of these claims of yours.
There is nothing to show Passover was ever celebrated outside of Spring.

Regarding the donkey, it cannot be at Nisan 14, a spring date, because the foal, a colt (male foal), was just born then. And one cannot ride on a new born. The colt may be weaned still, after at least four months, about summer.

From http://www.albertadonkeyandmule.com/pdfs/foaling-out-the-jennet.pdf : “The donkey has a thick, fluffy coat which gives the appearance of warmth and hardiness compared to the horse foal, but such is not the case. Donkey foals are not very hardy and require shelter especially for the first two to four weeks of life. If a foal becomes soaked with rain he may easily become chilled only to contract bronchitis or pneumonia which are often fatal.”

Now, the jennet or the mother donkey might have carried Jesus from Mount of Olives to the gate of Jerusalem, and the colt, from thereon. Jesus was 6’8” tall and He could be heavy for the colt. But could He not make Himself light? Have you seen the UK magician Dynamo. He is small that a muscular man can easily pick him up but he could make himself very heavy that the muscular man could not even lift him up.

Are you serious?

You have to be bothered yourself because you claim that ALL my “various claims have proven to be false.” Why don’t you read the results of my study from 1999 to 2003 regarding what Ama revealed to be the crucifixion date of Jesus – August 17? My proving this revelation together with the May 23 birth gave me the confidence what Ama said about the world war from the Philippines. And they are logically correct, like the Aristean calendar to be implemented in 2001. Although both did not materialize, they are there and ready to happen “in His time”, in God’s time. I learned to be trusting God instead of what I think is logically correct.

PC, do you remember i suggested to take this calendar to rabbis and ask about you concerns about the dating of Passover?
And again, what does the bible say about consulting mediums?

 

[Mojo]

You are wrong in saying about 8’ tall women in the UK. Angelina Imden says she is 7 feet tall.

You claimed that she says she is 7'2".

 

[Shiner]

Are ALL of my claims proven to be false?

I'd agree with that.

I have accepted that the prophecy of the 2012 Olympic Games in London failed when it ended successfully on 08-12. My consolation is that there is still the threat of a world war starting at the Spratly Islands being claimed by the Philippines. The spirit of Ama has been telling us about this war, maybe since the 1980s.

This is the bit that gets to people. You made the claim, that if this prophecy were to be proven wrong (IT WAS) you would denounce Ama/Ka Apaz as a false prophet and refuse to believe her any more.. YOU DIDN'T.
So, it is entirely reasonable for a person to dismiss everything you say.

You are wrong in saying about 8’ tall women in the UK. Angelina Imden says she is 7 feet tall. I was told that she is an heiress of the Helene Curtis fortune which she had relinquished. I became doubtful of her when she refused to correspond with me via snail mail, and that her location in England is eight hours away from the nearest city when asked by a listener of her whereabouts.

How did you communicate with her for her to decline your request for correspondence? *I think I broke my brain writing thinking that.*

I disagree because of the cursing of the fig tree, the linen cloth, and the donkey.

Such compelling evidence when you ignore the facts of, Oh I don't know, anything to do with the climate and environment of the middle east.

Regarding the donkey, it cannot be at Nisan 14, a spring date, because the foal, a colt (male foal), was just born then.

Did any of the crucifixion happen in Canada?
This is the logic, I take it?

And one cannot ride on a new born. The colt may be weaned still after at least four months, about summer.

You misrepresent information that you've provided a link for?
4 months being a minimum age, and providing the foal had been introduced to roughage. 4-6 months is the norm. This has no bearing on your argument. You still can't ride one until it is 4years old or older.
There is so much information on donkeys in this thread now that anyone can see what you say is false. Deliberately and dishonestly false.

Have you seen the UK magician Dynamo? He is small that a muscular man can easily pick him up but he could make himself very heavy that the muscular man could not even lift him up.

Do you know that magicians are illusionists?
Surely you can provide a link for this miraculous feat of majick.

And they are logically correct, like the Aristean calendar to be implemented in 2001. Although both did not materialize, they are there and ready to happen “in His time”, in God’s time. I learned to be trusting God instead of what I think is logically correct.

I'm of the viewpoint now, that you have no idea at all as to what logic is.

 

[Mojo]

You are wrong in saying about 8’ tall women in the UK. Angelina Imden says she is 7 feet tall. I was told that she is an heiress of the Helene Curtis fortune which she had relinquished. I became doubtful of her when she refused to correspond with me via snail mail, and that her location in England is eight hours away from the nearest city when asked by a listener of her whereabouts.

No, you posted all this stuff here as fact. You only "became doubtful" when people here pointed out that it was all impossible nonsense.

 

[Paul]

Have you seen the UK magician Dynamo?

No, but I have personally seen a magic dragon, he was most amusing, distinctly magical and he even breathed fire(£75).

 

[Agatha]

Are ALL of my claims proven to be false?

So far, yes.

I have accepted that the prophecy of the 2012 Olympic Games in London failed when it ended successfully on 08-12. My consolation is that there is still the threat of a world war starting at the Spratly Islands being claimed by the Philippines. The spirit of Ama has been telling us about this war, maybe since the 1980s.

'Consolation' is an appalling word to use, but this claim of WWIII starting before or during the 2012 Olympics has been proven to be false.

You are wrong in saying about 8’ tall women in the UK. Angelina Imden says she is 7 feet tall. I was told that she is an heiress of the Helene Curtis fortune which she had relinquished. I became doubtful of her when she refused to correspond with me via snail mail, and that her location in England is eight hours away from the nearest city when asked by a listener of her whereabouts.

No such person exists in England, Imden is not a surname but a Chinese brand of mobile phone, the Helene Curtis fortune heirs are known, and Ama doesn't know the geography of England either. Again, this claim is proven to be false.

Do you believe that Jesus was crucified at Passover in March or April, or Nisan 14? I disagree because of the cursing of the fig tree, the linen cloth, and the donkey.

Personally I'm unconvinced that such an event happened at all. But if it did, you've been shown that the bible says that Jesus did not expect the fig tree to have fruit, but it did have leaves, just as it would have in spring. If you think the fig tree should have had fruits, you are misunderstanding or ignoring the entire point of the parable. That is one data point in favour of a spring date.

You've been shown that spring in Jerusalem is quite warm enough to wear nothing but a linen cloth. That's another data point in favour of a spring date.

You've been shown that it's not advised to ride a donkey until they are at least four years old, so that is not probative either way. It's also the case that donkeys breed all the year round, not just in spring. The website you brought in shows that those Canadian donkey breeders control the breeding of their donkeys so that the foals are born in the warmer months rather than in ten feet of snow. That has little to do with the natural breeding habits of Donkeys in the middle East.

You've been shown that Jews are commanded since the time of Exodus at the least to observe Passover in the spring. So that's yet another, and most persuasive, data point in favour of a spring date.

Taken all-in-all, it adds up to another instance of Ama being proven to be false.

Regarding the donkey, it cannot be at Nisan 14, a spring date, because the foal, a colt (male foal), was just born then. And one cannot ride on a new born. The colt may be weaned still after at least four months, about summer.

Arrant nonsense. You cannot ride on a donkey, according to the website you yourself brought in, until it is four years old, and donkeys breed all the year round. My children are all adults except the youngest, but I still call them my 'children'. That the donkey in the bible is referred to as a colt doesn't mean it's necessarily a newborn.

<snip donkey facts>

Now, the jennet or the mother donkey might have carried Jesus from Mount of Olives to the gate of Jerusalem, and the colt, from thereon. Jesus was 6’8” tall and He could be heavy for the colt. But could He not make Himself light?

You have no evidence that Jesus was 6'8" at a time when the average man would have been around 5'. In fact, biblical evidence is against you, as if Jesus had been freakishly, enormously tall, it would have been mentioned in the bible, and Judas would have had no need to point him out. Ama is wrong again.

Have you seen the UK magician Dynamo? He is small that a muscular man can easily pick him up but he could make himself very heavy that the muscular man could not even lift him up.

PeaceCrusader, please don't tell me you think Dynamo can actually change his weight. Are you utterly mad? I recognise you have a tendency to believe the impossible, but Dynamo doesn't do actual magic, he does illusions. Tricks. He cannot change the laws of physics any more than anyone else can.

You have to be bothered yourself because you claim that ALL my “various claims have proven to be false.” Why don’t you read the results of my study from 1999 to 2003 regarding what Ama revealed to be the crucifixion date of Jesus – August 17?

It's been looked at by people here and by people on specialist calendar forums. Everyone has said it is complete and utter nonsense. You have absolutely no evidence other than Ama's pronouncements, and Ama has been wrong every time.

My proving this revelation together with the May 23 birth gave me the confidence what Ama said about the world war from the Philippines. And they are logically correct, like the Aristean calendar to be implemented in 2001. Although both did not materialize, they are there and ready to happen “in His time”, in God’s time.

Exactly, they did not happen. Ama said they would happen at specific times, those times have gone by and Ama was wrong. Again.

I learned to be trusting God instead of what I think is logically correct.

If you believe your god gave you intellect and reason, maybe you should start using them properly. To do otherwise is to insult your creator. Instead of believing things like Ama's evil and wrong ideas, which have been proven to be false start enjoying the life you have. Instead of hoping for the destruction of all life on earth (for that is what a nuclear war would be in reality), start working for good.

You are already consorting with spirits and false prophets, perhaps you should read Isaiah 8:19-22, Jeremiah 14:14, Matthew 7:15 and 22:11, and 1 John 4.1.

Furthermore, you claim that the Bible needs to have a word removed and a different one added. I suggest you read Deuteronomy 4:2 and 12:32, and Proverbs 30:5-6.

What is more, and what has been repeatedly pointed out to you, is that you undertook - promised - to denounce Ka Apaz as a false prophet and Ama as not the Holy Spirit if the Olympic Games prophecy failed. It did fail, and you have not done so. This means you lied to us. What does your god say about liars, PeaceCrusader?

So you know that there is hellfire. What do you think will the only true God do to those who do not believe in Him and do not obey His commandments?

You tell us, PeaceCrusader. You are the one disobeying his commandment about bearing false witness.

 

[Mojo]

Are ALL of my claims proven to be false?

No, a few of them were trivial. But all the claims that might have provided evidence of the existence of "Ama", or any prophetic ability on Ka Apaz's part, have turned out to be false.

 

[Meadmaker]

Do you believe that Jesus was crucified at Passover in March or April, or Nisan 14? I disagree because of the cursing of the fig tree, the linen cloth, and the donkey. Regarding the donkey, it cannot be at Nisan 14, a spring date, because the foal, a colt (male foal), was just born then. And one cannot ride on a new born. The colt may be weaned still after at least four months, about summer.

It's bad enough that you reject settled versions of history to support your theory. When it comes to history, it's true that our records are scant and that the accepted version of events probably has plenty of error in it anyway.


However, do you have to ignore knowledge of botany, zoology, and climate as well?

Fig trees have leaves but no fruit in April. It's warm at that time in Jerusalem. And foals of asses can't carry humans whether they are one month old or four months old. Perhaps the foal reference could maybe, just possibly, be that the animal was born to an ass. When horse racing season roles around, you will hear people describing the horses as "a foal of....(insert horse mom or dad here) ", such as "Secretariat is a foal of bold ruler."

I suggest going with that interpretation even it that means it doesn't give any hints about the time of year. If you insist that the foal in the Bible story was, literally, still a foal, then no one could ride it, and the whole prophecy would have to be declared ridiculous.

Of course, I suppose that a guy who could walk on water could ride a foal, but if that's the case, then it could have happened at any time of year.





Looking up the fig tree stuff, it was interesting to read some of the web pages that were hit. It seems some Christians don't really like that story. The story has Jesus walking up to a tree at a time of the year when it doesn't bear fruit, and cursing it because it has no fruit. They don't seem to think it's fair. The poor tree didn't deserve it. Some preachers explains some little known fig biology about some sort of shoots that appear prior to the actual figs, and which are, themselves, edible. If they don't have those things, they also won't have figs. This tree, they explained, diddn't have those pre-fig things, and so would not bear fruit.

In other words, take heart Christians. God himself, creator of the universe, did in fact curse a fig tree for not having figs, but the tree really did deserve it.