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Miracle of the Shroud / Blood on the shroud

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pakeha said:
Offended?
¡Que va!
It was my heavy-handed humour-Sorry to come across as a git.:o

Anyway, I still haven't the slightest when I'll have three days free to be able to sample the beer at the Brazen Head in Dublin.

Thanks for the muffin- today I saw some at a bookshop called "gremlins".
Is it too early to start on recipes in this thread?
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What are you talking about? It is only 95 pages so far.
 
Please keep to the thread topic. Thanks.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Gaspode
 
pakeha said:
Offended?
¡Que va!
It was my heavy-handed humour-Sorry to come across as a git.:o

Anyway, I still haven't the slightest when I'll have three days free to be able to sample the beer at the Brazen Head in Dublin.

Thanks for the muffin- today I saw some at a bookshop called "gremlins".
Is it too early to start on recipes in this thread?
Click to expand...
No problem, my fault as well; I can be a little clueless.
Anyway let me know if you're coming to Dublin.
And recipes, like kitten pics, are verboten.

Gaspode said:
Please keep to the thread topic. Thanks.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Gaspode
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Sorry. I'd offer you a muffin but.............
 
I owe you one for all those cases of Dom.

Back to topic, I still await an explanation why the TS being proven false has any effect on one's faith.

So what if it is proven to be a 14th century fake?
Why exactly is it so important to prove it's the real deal?
 
wardenclyffe said:
For those who'd like a preview of what Jabba says he's bringing to this forum next, you can see it at: http://shroudstory.com/2012/09/21/an-open-thread-for-rich-savage-questions/

Toward the bottom.

I'm looking foward to it,

Ward
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taken from the link above richard savage said:
4. Science has essentially proven that the shroud
4.1. Is not a painting.
4.2. Is not a photograph.
4.3. Is 3D.
4.4. Is holographic.


(...)

7. Some of the correct detail of a victim of crucifixion could not have been known by, seen by, painted by or desired to be painted by any forger 700 years ago.


8. The historical evidence for its early existence is actually substantial and growing.

9. There is plenty of reasonable doubt re the validity of the 1988 carbon dating.

10. Other than the carbon dating, the evidence against the shroud’s authenticity is really quite unimpressive.

11. Other than the scientists involved in the carbon dating, only one involved scientist has argued that the Shroud is not authentic (Walter McCrone) – whereas, there have been numerous involved scientists that have argued the opposite. The other notable skeptics are only in the “audience.”

12. There is real blood on the shroud (involving some of the details noted in #7, above), and in the right places.

(....)


16. One very unusual aspect of the stitching on the shroud (the side strip) has also been found on a shroud in the ruins of Masada (an ancient Israeli fortress). Masada was destroyed in 70 CE by the Romans.

17. Evidence of pollen and flowers — specific to Palestine in the first century — has been found on the shroud. Other pollen evidence on the shroud fits with the shrouds traditional itinerary.

18. Evidence of appropriate Roman coins is found on the closed eyelids of the victim.

19. If the shroud is not the burial cloth of Jesus, its most likely explanation is that of a forgery perpetrated by space aliens.
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same thread anoxie said:
Be carefull, there are very controversial claims in this list.
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No **** sherlock anoxie. Most of them are beyond controversial more like downright fantasy claim.
 
^
That IS an impressive list.
I do hope each claim will have a link to source material, especially #19.
 
wardenclyffe said:
For those who'd like a preview of what Jabba says he's bringing to this forum next, you can see it at: http://shroudstory.com/2012/09/21/an-open-thread-for-rich-savage-questions/

Toward the bottom.

I'm looking foward to it,

Ward
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I read the whole thing, and I'll be honest, Jabba comes across as the most reasonable and honest one in the bunch. He appears to be sincerely seeking the answers to his questions that have lingered for months.

As for putting down the JREF and its motives, Ron, just come on over here, register and get it out of your system. No one will bite, providing you can support your claims.:D
 
pakeha said:
^
That IS an impressive list.
I do hope each claim will have a link to source material, especially #19.
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18 was the cause of a bit of Shroudie hysteria for a while, complete with weird discussions of variant Greek spellings in the wording on the coins. But then some years ago it all disappeared. Fascinating. I'll look some of this stuff up, and provide links for anyone crazed enough to consult them.
 
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Olowkow said:
I read the whole thing, and I'll be honest, Jabba comes across as the most reasonable and honest one in the bunch. He appears to be sincerely seeking the answers to his questions that have lingered for months.

As for putting down the JREF and its motives, Ron, just come on over here, register and get it out of your system. No one will bite, providing you can support your claims.:D
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I agree to a degree. I just wish he'd use a little more of that reasonableness and honesty here. Also, I'm pretty sure #19 is meant to be a hyperbolic joke.

Ward
 
wardenclyffe said:
I agree to a degree. I just wish he'd use a little more of that reasonableness and honesty here. Also, I'm pretty sure #19 is meant to be a hyperbolic joke.

Ward
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Certainly.

But some of the rest are pretty funny when you see he is using a picture of a shroud in a medieval as evidence against 14C dating. I am not kidding you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pray_Codex

Read the whole text. This is what is taken as evidence overthrumping 14C dating by the shroudie : a picture which is not identical neither by what it represents, the anatomical difference and not even in length which could be pretty much *any* shroud against a 14C dating.

That's so laughable , that I got nose snorting and crying because I laughed so much.
 
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Craig B said:
18 was the cause of a bit of Shroudie hysteria for a while, complete with weird discussions of variant Greek spellings in the wording on the coins. But then some years ago it all disappeared. Fascinating. I'll look some of this stuff up, and provide links for anyone crazed enough to consult them.
Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to seeing what you turn up.
Have you noticed how many pro-authenticity arguments hinge upon promising ideas that fizzle out?
Remember Dimitri Kouznetsov?


wardenclyffe said:
I agree to a degree. I just wish he'd use a little more of that reasonableness and honesty here. Also, I'm pretty sure #19 is meant to be a hyperbolic joke.



Ward
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Ah, well.

Aepervius said:
Certainly.

But some of the rest are pretty funny when you see he is using a picture of a shroud in a medieval as evidence against 14C dating. I am not kidding you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pray_Codex

Read the whole text. This is what is taken as evidence overthrumping 14C dating by the shroudie : a picture which is not identical neither by what it represents, the anatomical difference and not even in length which could be pretty much *any* shroud against a 14C dating.

That's so laughable , that I got nose snorting and crying because I laughed so much.
Click to expand...

I've never really understood why anyone would think the Pray Codex was proof of anything about the TS.
Off to read more.

ETA-
What fun!
An entire thread to read with breakfast:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226514
 
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I remember that thread. You'll find me there with a lot of the arguments I've used here.

There's nothing new under the sun.

Ward
 
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