Bigfoot: The Patterson Gimlin Film - Part 3

[AttorneyTom]

There's hardly anything established as fact about the PGF.

The only established fact about PGF is that it is a "film" taken by someone of something . However, the circumstantial evidence surrounding this "film" creates a lot of zagnuts !

 

[William Parcher]

Bill Munns helped eliminate certain questions about the camera that was used and some other stuff as well.

Maybe. Much of Munns' work on the PGF wouldn't immediately become scientific fact because it hasn't been replicated or peer reviewed.

Putting aside human error (replication and peer review are the only way to find that), I think that Munns has shown that bias and ethics should be closely examined when dealing with him.

Of course he isn't a scientist working in the public arena. So he is free to insult people, call them names and other whatnot. Which he does do.

Munns and so many others essentially provide a service to Bigfoot believers. What is needed are time-eaters, time-wasters and time-consumers. Time has always been the enemy of Bigfoot belief (it's actually why we know Bigfoot doesn't exit) and what they want are things to talk about and think about that don't involve putting away your belief.

IOW, the Bigfooter wants to die before they stop believing in Bigfoot. So, without any Bigfoot to find, they pass the time talking thinking and looking for Bigfoot. Munns was and still is a tremendous time-consumer and eater for the believers. A person could pass the time by doing nothing other than pouring over his writing and debating back and forth. A Munnsite. A Friend Of Bill. He fights the good fight for Bigfoot.

 

[AttorneyTom]

This is why I made sure to take the Zagnut Bar out of my vehicle ! It is now safely stored in my home.

We will "stump it" on the 26th when I am camping out in that BF saturated area of southern OH.

 

[GeeMack]

Munns and so many others essentially provide a service to Bigfoot believers. What is needed are time-eaters, time-wasters and time-consumers. Time has always been the enemy of Bigfoot belief (it's actually why we know Bigfoot doesn't exit) and what they want are things to talk about and think about that don't involve putting away your belief.

IOW, the Bigfooter wants to die before they stop believing in Bigfoot. So, without any Bigfoot to find, they pass the time talking thinking and looking for Bigfoot. Munns was and still is a tremendous time-consumer and eater for the believers. A person could pass the time by doing nothing other than pouring over his writing and debating back and forth. A Munnsite. A Friend Of Bill. He fights the good fight for Bigfoot.

That may be some of the most germane commentary in this thread. The faithful must have something to cling to in order to keep the faith. The longer the Patterson-Gimlin film remains controversial, the longer they can avoid being honest with themselves. They love guys like Bill Munns with his pretense of an in-depth analysis. They actually need him. He makes it sounds all sciency so they kid themselves that it lends legitimacy to their fantasy. It keeps the dream alive for another day.

 

[RedRatSnake]

I agree with William Parcher & GeeMack.

Footers have faith in those that lead them and will keep that faith even if they get mislead or burned. All the " Bad" as they see it just don't count, it's only the good or what they need to hear.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Footers have faith in those that lead them and will keep that faith even if they get mislead or burned. All the " Bad" as they see it just don't count, it's only the good or what they need to hear.

Sounds like you could be describing most any religion..

 

[RedRatSnake]

Sounds like you could be describing most any religion..

Yup! sure has the same ole feeling don't it. I had a much larger post getting into that, but after rereading it, i thought about some footers from the bible belt that are here, so i left it out cause i didn't want to offend with my take on that stuff.

 

[River]

Seems like a lot of "footers" aren't able to admit that such a suit was possible to have been made in 1967. Heck, even at a long distance, and grained out because of the films limitations of a small subject in the full frame being blown up... there is "amazing detail, and rippling muscles" and other assorted nonsense that is touted as reasons why it could not be a suit. Huffing and hawing about technology needed, and materials that weren't available yet.

Yet in suits much earlier, there was great detail. Even at closeup clear shots. (not disguised by distance, or camera shaking)

This example was from a film in 1954.

 

[JohnWS]

Nice example River - what's the film - I can't place it?

ETA - Oops, forgot the standard disclaimer/carpet sweep/evasion when a 'superior' suit is shown that pre-dates PGF -

'Well it looks good but we really need to see it in motion.'

 

[rockinkt]

There's hardly anything established as fact about the PGF. No one has proven it was even Roger who shot the film. Bill Munns helped eliminate certain questions about the camera that was used and some other stuff as well. Which I think is really good, because that actually puts both skeptics and proponents in the right direction. Even though it may not be by much.

Be specific please. By that I mean give a specific example of a question about the camera that was used and how Bill Munns eliminated that question or supplied an answer.
Remember - it cannot be a question that Munns dreamed up - but one that was legitimately asked and debated before Munns came on the scene. In other words - please provide a reference to your claim that establishes that the question about the camera was in play prior to Munns arriving on scene.

Also - you need to be quite a bit more specific about "some other stuff as well".

 

[River]

Nice example River - what's the film - I can't place it?

ETA - Oops, forgot the standard disclaimer/carpet sweep/evasion when a 'superior' suit is shown that pre-dates PGF -

'Well it looks good but we really need to see it in motion.'

Thanks JohnWS. It is from the movie Phantom of the Rue Morgue. (the name of the movie is also the name of the jpg file I posted)

 

[DennyT]

Munns will be appearing Saturday in Felton, CA at the first public screening in some forty years of the 45 minute "warm-up" film made/used by Roger Patterson and Al DeAtley to introduce Patterson, Bigfoot and the less than a minute sequence now referred to as the PGF. It was used in their "four wall" sideshow tour in the late 60's.
The event is a fund-raiser for Mike Rugg the Bigfoot Discovery Museum, but Rugg says his goal is to "canonize" the PGF on the 45th anniversary of its filming. Sure.

Of course, most likely the 45th anniversary of the filming passed unnoticed a couple of weeks ago, but I wouldn't expect a cult leader to acknowledge that. I expect Munns will get all aquiver over this promo, and that should be fun to witness.

Also attending/speaking will another Bigfoot heavyweight, Dr. Jeff Meldrum, professor of Sasquology at Idaho State University. This should be a rare opportunity to ask some tough questions. Anyone who has a suggested question please PM me and I will choose the best one or two, but I don't guarantee I will get any straight answers (or even be allowed to ask them).

Anyone from the Bay Area who wants to share a ride, give me a shout, or we could meet up at the bar a half block past the community center on the same side of the road.

Ah, history...

 

[DennyT]

Munns will be appearing Saturday in Felton, CA at the first public screening in some forty years of the 45 minute "warm-up" film made/used by Roger Patterson and Al DeAtley to introduce Patterson, Bigfoot and the less than a minute sequence now referred to as the PGF. It was used in their "four wall" sideshow tour in the late 60's.
The event is a fund-raiser for Mike Rugg the Bigfoot Discovery Museum, but Rugg says his goal is to "canonize" the PGF on the 45th anniversary of its filming. Sure.

Of course, most likely the 45th anniversary of the filming passed unnoticed a couple of weeks ago, but I wouldn't expect a cult leader to acknowledge that. I expect Munns will get all aquiver over this promo, and that should be fun to witness.

Also attending/speaking will another Bigfoot heavyweight, Dr. Jeff Meldrum, professor of Sasquology at Idaho State University. Bob Gimlin has apparently cancelled. Why do i have that effect on people?

This should be a rare opportunity to ask some tough questions. Anyone who has a suggested question please PM me and I will choose the best one or two, but I don't guarantee I will get any straight answers (or even be allowed to ask them).

Anyone from the Bay Area who wants to share a ride, give me a shout, or we could meet up at the bar (i forget the name; it's a "cowboy bar") a half block past the community center on the same side of the road.

Ah, history...

ETA: Justin Smeja, the Sierra Killer, is also going to attend; no word on whether he is bringing his freezer.

 

[River]

parn your inbox is full. Here is what I would ask.

Could you ask him if he still endorses the Skookum cast, and BCM tracks as authentic? I suspect he will avoid saying they are authentic, but more that they "could be." Also could you please ask what his opinion is on the probability that bigfoot exists. (get a percentage of his "beliefs" 100%? 1%? I'm curious if he will respond)

Just curious what his current position is on those things. Thanks!

 

[JohnWS]

Thanks JohnWS. It is from the movie Phantom of the Rue Morgue. (the name of the movie is also the name of the jpg file I posted)

So it is.... I tried right clicking in case but never tried downloading it. So it's a Gemora ape. He really was the master. I knew he was responsible for the 1932 version but never really looked at this one before. Thanks!

 

[William Parcher]

That may be some of the most germane commentary in this thread. The faithful must have something to cling to in order to keep the faith. The longer the Patterson-Gimlin film remains controversial, the longer they can avoid being honest with themselves. They love guys like Bill Munns with his pretense of an in-depth analysis. They actually need him. He makes it sounds all sciency so they kid themselves that it lends legitimacy to their fantasy. It keeps the dream alive for another day.

(the bolded) It may be something else too. Not faith that the creature exists... but instead simply thinking that America ought to have this thing as a fantasy myth for people to enjoy for generations to come. The neverending story. But it could come to a complete stop if everybody thinks that Bigfoot doesn't exist and it was all just a big rollercoaster ride of a mistake that mankind made. Then nobody hoaxes Bigfoot tracks and nobody even says they have seen a Bigfoot because Bigfoot is the same as Santa. Then saying you saw Bigfoot is the same as saying you saw Santa riding the sky sleigh and everybody laughs including the witness.

But the way to stop that future is to create Bigfoot hoaxes and tell Bigfoot lies, and declare elk butt to be Bigfoot butt, and a trailcamera young bear is a young Bigfoot. It's the only way to keep the fantasy "alive" for everyone and the newbies too.

You see, this is not just the preservation of the irrational beliefs of an odd subculture based on a myth. No, Bigfoot is American Culture. It is a lifestyle for some. "My daddy believed in Bigfoot and I do too. I think my son will too. We are good folk and well liked in our community. Can we offer you a piece of pie?"

I think there may be a large representation of right wing conservative in Bigfootery because some are believers as a way of maintaining American traditions. Family values. Old fashioned country ways and that's how we like some things. Yeah, they want to keep Bigfoot and you do that by hoaxing and telling tall tales (lies). And you support others who do that, even if in subtle or covert ways. If the world stops believing in Bigfoot it will be blamed on the skeptics. They won. Most are damn liberal heathens too. They don't want that and so they do what they do.

The Gimlin Guard is guarding an American cultural treasure and a living icon. All of this is history in the making. I'm not kidding you. In 100 years there will be students writing theses on the (still existing) Bigfootery Subculture and it's history.

Don't worry, Bigfooters. Your pastime is a permanent one. If you want it. It will be what you make it. Make those Bigfoot tracks in the mud. Do it for the other Bigfooters. Do it for yourself. Do it for your children.

Just do it.

 

[Chris L]

I think there may be a large representation of right wing conservative in Bigfootery because some are believers as a way of maintaining American traditions. Family values. Old fashioned country ways and that's how we like some things. Yeah, they want to keep Bigfoot and you do that by hoaxing and telling tall tales (lies). And you support others who do that, even if in subtle or covert ways. If the world stops believing in Bigfoot it will be blamed on the skeptics. They won. Most are damn liberal heathens too. They don't want that and so they do what they do.

As a politically conservative person who is both educated and a skeptic, I'm going to have to cry foul here. You will find believers (in all sorts of silly things) in just about every ideological stripe imaginable. Human beings have an irrepressible ability to believe in the irrational. The only real difference between ideologies is which kind of woo they wish to believe in.

 

[William Parcher]

Of course, but I was talking about conservative Bigfooters, not skeptics or you in particular.

When I said "Most are damn liberal heathens too." I was speaking as if I was a conservative Bigfooter. I was playing the stereotype that I brought up.

 

[Chris L]

Of course, but I was talking about conservative Bigfooters, not skeptics or you in particular.

When I said "Most are damn liberal heathens too." I was speaking as if I was a conservative Bigfooter. I was playing the stereotype that I brought up.

I understand. And I would tend to agree that there are indeed people like that in the BF community.

 

[tsig]

Sounds like you could be describing most any religion..

Yep whether it's bigfoot or god I see the same arguments for it's existence.