The crucifixion of Jesus Christ

[Astreja]

I think the magic tree that Aristeo is looking for is this one:

Quercus coccifera

I think an amateur Christian botanist simply misread the "coccifera" part as "crucifera."

Essentially it's a shrubbery ("Ni!") that sometimes manages to grow about 30 feet tall. At its widest it's about 50 cm (approximately a foot and a half). If a single-piece cross was made out of it, Jesus could have just sat on it and broken it.

Or perhaps the math of Ama is defective, and Jesus was not 80 inches tall but a mere 8 inches tall. Or perhaps 0.68 feet tall rather than 6'8". In either case, I think we should check the museums for Roman Occupation-era footwear and chariot wheels, as this raises the possibility that someone squished Aristeo's "saviour" underfoot.

ETA: Boo! Hiss! *rattle rattle rattle*

 

[SezMe]

In the 1980s, I remember that the cross that we make should be in one piece only. From my notebook, it mentions how a one-inch cross (used as a necklace) should be made. A solid cross should be cut. One piece of wood and not two pieces. Now I realize why it is so.

I originally read that as one-inch christ and shed a nostalgic tear for our long lost brother.

 

[Shiner]

I think the magic tree that Aristeo is looking for is this one:

Quercus coccifera

I think an amateur Christian botanist simply misread the "coccifera" part as "crucifera."

Essentially it's a shrubbery ("Ni!") that sometimes manages to grow about 30 feet tall. At its widest it's about 50 cm (approximately a foot and a half). If a single-piece cross was made out of it, Jesus could have just sat on it and broken it.

Which is what I posted here, http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8697913&postcount=324
but... I get the feeling we could post it ten more times each and it wouldn't make a difference. Even the larger Palestine Oak (Quercus calliprinos) is more commonly a shrub than a tree.

I believe the author of that book simply made a mistake. Typo more than likely. There is a species of Quercus called coccifera that is common to the Mediterranian, but....

ETA, I should add that the reason I settled on calliprinos as opposed to coccifera was that the author(s) of the book* in question was/were describing the vegetation in the southern mountains of Turkey. This suggests the eastern occuring s/species calliprinos.


*(the only book known to man that mentions the mythical Quercus crucifera)
Hmm, sounds familiar.......

 

[pakeha]

Here's the pertinent verse from Esther 3:

12 Then on the thirteenth day of the first month the royal secretaries were summoned. They wrote out in the script of each province and in the language of each people all Haman’s orders to the king’s satraps, the governors of the various provinces and the nobles of the various peoples. These were written in the name of King Xerxes himself and sealed with his own ring. 13 Dispatches were sent by couriers to all the king’s provinces with the order to destroy, kill and annihilate all the Jews—young and old, women and children—on a single day, the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, the month of Adar, and to plunder their goods. 14 A copy of the text of the edict was to be issued as law in every province and made known to the people of every nationality so they would be ready for that day. ...

First month, twelfth month.
What led you to confuse things so badly, PC?
A second-hand report of what a medium divulged?
Do you remember how thoroughly you confused the issue of the dating in the Roman province of Hispania?
Or how thoroughly you're confusing the issue of the Quercus shrubbery?

 

[MIKILLINI]

I can't see the point of arguing with PC. He doesn't comprehend the aspect of getting debunked; And he's been the poster child of debunked.

 

[Recovering Agnostic]

heresy :d

And not for the first time. One of the more bizarre features of this thread is PC's persistent rejection of historic Christian beliefs whenever they get in the way of Ama's latest load of wibble.

Peace Crusader, if there's a clear contradiction between the Bible and Ama, at least one must be in error. In such cases, which of these sources would you trust more?

 

[Akhenaten]

And not for the first time. One of the more bizarre features of this thread is PC's persistent rejection of historic Christian beliefs whenever they get in the way of Ama's latest load of wibble.

Peace Crusader, if there's a clear contradiction between the Bible and Ama, at least one must be in error. In such cases, which of these sources would you trust more?

Akhenaten channels PeaceCrusader

I choose what will be good for me and discard what is evil if any.​

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I searched the Internet for more info about the species Quercus crucifera but failed. It is not even listed in the list of Quercus species.

The simple and obvious explanation is that it's a misprint. No such species exists. Quercus coccifera exists.

Maybe, we have to ask Akuma Tennou how come he mentioned that species.

Maybe you were right first time - it was a leg-pull.

People during the time of Jesus did not even know that the standard of Christianity or the followers of Jesus would be a cross, did they?

Obviously not. Not obviously relevant.

There were three seeds that the Blessed Virgin Mary (BVM) (Gumamela Celis in Heaven) planted many years before she was even born.

No. Absolutely not. This is utter nonsense and complete invention. This did not happen. It is absurd.

So the only true God must have planned it that Jesus with two malefactors would be executed by crucifixion and that the trees to be used were those planted by the BVM.

This may be the least logical use of the word 'must' in all of your posts. It is a crazy invention and ought to be rejected as nonsense by anyone with a scrap of rationality.

I do not know if there are surviving trees from the original three. You are right that they would be objects of veneration in the Christian world and even though the species may be endemic to Palestine, it could be introduced to other countries.

There were no original three. A similar-sounding real species is endemic to Turkey. No such venerated trees exist, nor did they ever exist.

In the 1980s, I remember that the cross that we make should be in one piece only. From my notebook, it mentions how a one-inch cross (used as a necklace) should be made. A solid cross should be cut. One piece of wood and not two pieces. Now I realize why it is so.

No. Now we have an explanation of why you made up a story about the real cross having been made in one piece - that's how you made tiny ones when you were a kid. No better reason than that. The Romans did not crucify people on crosses carved from single gigantic pieces of timber. The Romans were not stupid.

 

[Recovering Agnostic]

Akhenaten channels PeaceCrusader

I choose what will be good for me and discard what is evil if any.​

Ooh, nice trick. Can you get Jesus on that thing as well? Because I'd be interested in his opinion of some Filipino woman...

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Because it's an anthology of idiotic religiously-themed fiction, that's why.

And now you've disproven your own assertion about the Bible being the work of "the one true god." Good work, Aristeo! A couple more pages of this thread, and we'll have you shaking your head and saying "I can't believe I wasted so many years of my life on this nonsense."


(Springy G fills Her recycling bin with empty aluminum tins, half a pound of drywall screws, and a handful of marbles) Ready! I'll shake the noisemaker thingamajig and boo and hiss when you say Ama.

@Astreja, #339

The Holy Bible is not totally wrong. The spirit of Ama recommended that we use the King James Version of the Holy Bible supplemented by “Pasiong Mahal”. I used mainly the Holy Bible in my study proving that Jesus was crucified on August 17 (http://aristean.org/crucifyidx.htm ).

Do you know why Pentecost in Acts 2:1 wrong? Because the translators of the Bible when they fixed Passover in March or April when Jesus was allegedly crucified, the nearest festival was Pentecost in May. It would have been harder to justify if they retained that the festival was Tabernacle in September/October.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

The simple and obvious explanation is that it's a misprint. No such species exists. Quercus coccifera exists.
Maybe you were right first time - it was a leg-pull.

Obviously not. Not obviously relevant.
No. Absolutely not. This is utter nonsense and complete invention. This did not happen. It is absurd.

This may be the least logical use of the word 'must' in all of your posts. It is a crazy invention and ought to be rejected as nonsense by anyone with a scrap of rationality.

There were no original three. A similar-sounding real species is endemic to Turkey. No such venerated trees exist, nor did they ever exist.


No. Now we have an explanation of why you made up a story about the real cross having been made in one piece - that's how you made tiny ones when you were a kid. No better reason than that. The Romans did not crucify people on crosses carved from single gigantic pieces of timber. The Romans were not stupid.

@Jack by the hedge, #348

Akuma Tennou would know Quercus crucifera. He is right. It is a silky oak species. He was the one who mentioned it first. So he may tell us how he knows about that Quercus species.

Now, the standard of Christianity is the cross from the shape of the tree on which Jesus was nailed.

It is not stated in the Holy Bible that the Gumamela Celis (Blessed Virgin Mary) would plant the three seeds many years before she was even born. I did not invent this. Please listen to http://aristean.org/g11b-pah3.mp3 titled “Part 3 - Ang Kaban ng Tipan at parusa kay Maria” (Part 3 – The Chest {or Trunk} of the Covenant and punishment of Mary).

Is there anything impossible with the true God? He planned that Jesus with two malefactors would be executed by crucifixion and that the trees to be used were those planted by the BVM. Now, the tree may rarely be seen or has become extinct, just like the disappearance of the cross at post office box when we finally departed from the city of Campbelltown, New South Wales, Australia in 2004 (http://aristean.org/jesus888.htm ).

 

[pakeha]

It is not stated in the Holy Bible that the Gumamela Celis (Blessed Virgin Mary) would plant the three seeds many years before she was even born. I did not invent this. Please listen to http://aristean.org/g11b-pah3.mp3 titled “Part 3 - Ang Kaban ng Tipan at parusa kay Maria” (Part 3 – The Chest {or Trunk} of the Covenant and punishment of Mary).

Is there anything impossible with the true God? He planned that Jesus with two malefactors would be executed by crucifixion and that the trees to be used were those planted by the BVM. Now, the tree may rarely be seen or has become extinct, just like the disappearance of the cross at post office box when we finally departed from the city of Campbelltown, New South Wales, Australia in 2004 (http://aristean.org/jesus888.htm ).

Was that the voice of the medium you claim channels Jesus?
You really find that performance convincing?

Did you understand this misnamed shrub doesn't have a growth that would yield material for a crucifixion?

 

[Akhenaten]

@Jack by the hedge, #348

Akuma Tennou would know Quercus crucifera. He is right. It is a silky oak species. He was the one who mentioned it first. So he may tell us how he knows about that Quercus species.

You have an unBabel fish, don't you?

 

[Akhenaten]

@Astreja, #339

The Holy Bible is not totally wrong.

Against all odds, I actually agree with you on this.

What I don't understand is why you're so dead keen to subscribe to this idiotic Passionfruit Mahjong or whatever it's called, which seems like it's taken a fairytale with a few grains of truth scattered throughout its pages and turned it into some kind of bizarro world comic book horror story.

 

[Shiner]

@Jack by the hedge, #348

Akuma Tennou would know Quercus crucifera. He is right. It is a silky oak species. He was the one who mentioned it first. So he may tell us how he knows about that Quercus species.

Now, the standard of Christianity is the cross from the shape of the tree on which Jesus was nailed.

Did you......*sigh*.....I mean....*shakes head*......really?.....
Oh..My.Gawd.....

Please listen to http://aristean.org/g11b-pah3.mp3

Not if you payed me.

Is there anything impossible with the true God? (http://aristean.org/jesus888.htm ).

Apparently not.

Numerology is not science, and I think it's probably heresy.

*Facepalm*

 

[Agatha]

@Jack by the hedge, #348

Akuma Tennou would know Quercus crucifera. He is right. It is a silky oak species. He was the one who mentioned it first. So he may tell us how he knows about that Quercus species.

He made it up, as a joke. There is no q. crucifera.

Now, the standard of Christianity is the cross from the shape of the tree on which Jesus was nailed.

Which is a bizarre thing, using an instrument of torture to symbolise a religion, but carry on...

It is not stated in the Holy Bible that the Gumamela Celis (Blessed Virgin Mary) would plant the three seeds many years before she was even born. I did not invent this. Please listen to http://aristean.org/g11b-pah3.mp3 titled “Part 3 - Ang Kaban ng Tipan at parusa kay Maria” (Part 3 – The Chest {or Trunk} of the Covenant and punishment of Mary).

You may not have invented it, but somebody did. Because it is utter nonsense, on a par with WWIII interrupting the 2012 Olympic Games or that there is a giantess living in a remote area of England in a house full of corpses. None of it is real, it is all make-believe.

Is there anything impossible with the true God? He planned that Jesus with two malefactors would be executed by crucifixion and that the trees to be used were those planted by the BVM. Now, the tree may rarely be seen or has become extinct, just like the disappearance of the cross at post office box when we finally departed from the city of Campbelltown, New South Wales, Australia in 2004 (http://aristean.org/jesus888.htm ).

There is nothing on your web page about the "cross" disappearing, and even if there were it is proof of nothing more than the existence of coincidence.

 

[Shiner]

..idiotic Passionfruit Mahjong...

Mmmm, Pavlova. Oh, wait....never mind.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Just to be clear on this, there's no evidence of this at all beyond the revelations of Ama, and there is very good reason to doubt it. The fact that some sort of calendar shift as a result of Babylonian contact does not in any way imply that they were using two kinds of calendars during the time of Jesus. It's much more sensible, in the absence of any other evidence, to assume that they shifted to a single lunisolar calendar, leaving whatever calendar they used before that behind.

(Note: The Essenes did use a different calendar, but it had nothing to do with a purely lunar calendar.)

Indeed, there is very good evidence from the Bible that a "purely lunar" calendar was never in use at all. The Bible links the start of the first month with the ripening of the barley. If the calendar were purely lunar, the barley would ripen at different times.


The only thing the reform of 358 did was to eliminate the reliance on barey ripening as a means of determining when to hold Nisan. As the Jews were now scattered and so many had no connection with Jerusalem, and there were no priests left at any rate to give an "official" determination, they calculated a schedule of which years to insert the intercalary month, known as second Adar.

I am assuming that, barley or no barley, in reality the priests used astronomy to set the date of Nisan based on the new moon afterthe vernal equinox. That would explain the date of Easter quite nicely. However, I have no proof that was what would be used.

And yes, the current Jewish calendar does things as required in the Torah.


Wrong? A direct revelation from the one true God, but this Filipino woman can do better?


Apparently excluding the Book of Acts?


Good plan, but I'm not reading anything else in the Book of Esther. I will, on the other hand, listen to it when the 14th of Adar rolls around, because that's the day when we celebrate, just like it says to do in Chapter 9.

As for Chapters 3 and 4, it's all about Nisan and Adar. Lunisolar right from the start.

@Meadmaker, #336

You are right, Meadmaker, that the book of Esther was using a lunisolar calendar right from the start. This was when Esther was in Babylon. Chapters 3 and 4 talk about Nisan and Adar. Why is the Fast of Esther in Adar now when it was in Nisan when it took place?

Just remember that after the crucifixion of Jesus and His burial, He was three days and three nights in the tomb. After three days, He resurrected and was with His disciples for the next 40 days. Then, He ascended to Heaven.

Acts 2:1 should not at Pentecost (Shavuoth) but in Tabernacles (Sukkoth). I am the one who is saying that Act 2:1 should not at Pentecost. The spirit of Ama did not say that it is wrong. Why is it wrong? First is that the day following the ascension of Jesus to Heaven was the Feast of Tabernacles. Second is where will you find people get drunk: in Pentecost or in Tabernacles (Acts 2:13-15)? You know that Pentecost is 50 days after Passover. Jesus ascended to Heaven on the forty-third day. What would you do if the promised gift did not come on the 44th day? On the 45th day? On the 46th day? On the 47th day? On the 48th day? You would charge that Jesus is a false prophet, wouldn’t you? You might walk away after the promise is not fulfilled after three days that He ascended. How about if immediately after the ascension, the following day, the gift of tongue was given? You would become enthusiastic, wouldn’t you? Would you believe that truly Jesus fulfilled His promise of sending the Spirit? That is why Acts 2:1 should be in Tabernacles (Sukkoth) and not at Pentecost (Shavuoth).

Did you know why the Israelites reformed their calendar in 358/359 AD? Because they were using two calendars: a purely lunar calendar and a lunisolar calendar. They would like to consolidate it and avoid the Christians attacking their calendars. Also, because the Christians had set Easter or the Christian Passover in 325 AD (33 years earlier) in March or April, the time when the Israelites departed from Egypt and the barley was in the ear.

Regarding the Feast of Dedication, to which season does the Jewish month of Kislev belong? It is in Autumn, isn’t it? What does John 10:22 say about the Feast of Dedication? It was winter, wasn’t it? So why Kislev? Why in Autumn?

 

[Elizabeth I]

The Holy Bible is not totally wrong. The spirit of Ama recommended that we use the King James Version of the Holy Bible supplemented by “Pasiong Mahal."

Why on earth would the Word of God^TM need to be supplemented by anything?

 

[Multivac]

And, of course, "a totally unidentifiable little metal object with flanges at both ends and a sort of ridge and a sort of a hole for a screw."
THGTG, vol iii



PC, do you really believe this?

Wasn't that the ratchet scredriver fruit, after it had been left in a dark drawer for many years?

Always good to the Good Book referenced on these fora.