seemingly unexplainable cases of the paranormal

[Andyman409]

I lived in Cheltenham for twelve years (1970-1981), at a time when I was still very much into the paranormal and giving it considerable credence. I have never heard of the Cheltenham apparition.

Odd. It popped up in a quite a few books and articles, although none of them go into the details. Here is the most descriptive source I could find on it. So far, it looks like it can be explained as an actress pretending to be a ghost. But, for all I know, it could be something even more mundane. I'll have to look for more details.

 

[Humphreys]

Ummm... A better question would be: Who actively claims *not* to be a skeptic?
Do you ever hear a story starting with
"I'm a gullable moron"?

Obviously it would start with "I'm not the type of person to just fall for these things"

That's true, to a point, but quite a few people do not consider themselves "skeptics" but "believers". "Believers" are those who are already decided on the issue of the paranormal and are already believers in ghosts.

Some may start the story with something silly like "As someone very sensitive to the ghost world...".

 

[Resume]

Old houses have a tendency to make strange noises, so something mundance cant be ruled out.

Yes, ruling it out would be biased.

Of course, they could've be from a guy who liked to stay up late. It hardly takes any imagination to figure out what a college student would want to do late at night. How the person/ sounds got up there would be the tricky part, unless they were the ones who had access to the rooms.

Yes, it hardly takes any imagination at all to figure most of these things out. That is unless you're biased to find a paranormal explanation. Of course a paranormal explanation would necessitate some of the pesky objective evidence stuff. Of which there is none currently available for the paranormal explanation.

So there's that.

 

[Cainkane1]

Theres a house in Conyers Ga that has been around for over a century. It was last used as a restaurant but now its closed. A woman working there claimed she saw a ghost but I believe it was carbon monoxide from the cooking. Our minds can really play tricks on us some time.

Ghosts would be cool if only they existed.

 

[TheShadow]

Yes, ruling it out would be biased.



Yes, it hardly takes any imagination at all to figure most of these things out. That is unless you're biased to find a paranormal explanation. Of course a paranormal explanation would necessitate some of the pesky objective evidence stuff. Of which there is none currently available for the paranormal explanation.

So there's that.

First of all, I dont think Andyman read correctly what I related...
He mentioned some other person being up there, when I clearly stated that this was not a possibilty- unless one of my house mates was a lock picker, who then could reach through the closed door, and put the padlock back on after he went upstairs.


Secondly, I never said I thought it was a ghost or paranormal.
I said the footsteps I heard defied explanation.

It was not just an occasional creaking board somewhere, but distinct thudding footsteps that could be heard.

If just myself, sure i'd consider possibly imagining it. But before I had ever said another word to anyone other than my room-mate, I had been approached by a guy from Turkey who lived across the hall from me one day, who asked me if I knew who was walking around upstairs during the night. It was only after four or five of us discussed it, at some later point, that I began to really be confused and perplexed by it.

I know its part of some peoples skeptical nature, but its a little annoying sometimes to have people automatically dismiss what you think you heard, or saw etc.. or suggest you must be mistaken.

I grew up in an old farmhouse in upstate NY. I had been listening to one family member or another trudging around upstairs for years, and feel comfortable that I have a good grasp on what footsteps sound like.

The sounds we heard in that house, would go on for minutes at a time.
It wasnt like you'd hear just one creaking floor board, it was the sound of repetitive thudding footsteps, walking as I said in a way that sounded like someone pacing back and forth.

I'm not going to go down the "I guess you had to be there" road, but it does matter to me that I was not alone in my experience, and had several other people who claimed to be hearing the same exact thing I was.

Meh, I'll just file it back away and not worry about it.
I just thought it was interesting, as its been something I've thought back on from time to time over the years, and was somewhat relevant to the threads subject matter.

-TS-

 

[Resume]

First of all, I dont think Andyman read correctly what I related...

I responded to Andyman's interpretation of your anecdote; sorry for any confusion.

 

[carlitos]

I Dewi Rees found that, amogst widows, about 2-3% experienced tactile experiences of their deceased loved ones. If there are any details that would rule this possibility out, they haven't been presented (although I doubt it'd matter, since one could question the accuracy of the details).

And several times a month, both my wife and I "feel" our phones vibrating, despite the phones not actually vibrating.

 

[Andyman409]

First of all, I dont think Andyman read correctly what I related...
He mentioned some other person being up there, when I clearly stated that this was not a possibilty- unless one of my house mates was a lock picker, who then could reach through the closed door, and put the padlock back on after he went upstairs.


Secondly, I never said I thought it was a ghost or paranormal.
I said the footsteps I heard defied explanation.

It was not just an occasional creaking board somewhere, but distinct thudding footsteps that could be heard.

If just myself, sure i'd consider possibly imagining it. But before I had ever said another word to anyone other than my room-mate, I had been approached by a guy from Turkey who lived across the hall from me one day, who asked me if I knew who was walking around upstairs during the night. It was only after four or five of us discussed it, at some later point, that I began to really be confused and perplexed by it.

I know its part of some peoples skeptical nature, but its a little annoying sometimes to have people automatically dismiss what you think you heard, or saw etc.. or suggest you must be mistaken.

I grew up in an old farmhouse in upstate NY. I had been listening to one family member or another trudging around upstairs for years, and feel comfortable that I have a good grasp on what footsteps sound like.

The sounds we heard in that house, would go on for minutes at a time.
It wasnt like you'd hear just one creaking floor board, it was the sound of repetitive thudding footsteps, walking as I said in a way that sounded like someone pacing back and forth.

I'm not going to go down the "I guess you had to be there" road, but it does matter to me that I was not alone in my experience, and had several other people who claimed to be hearing the same exact thing I was.

Meh, I'll just file it back away and not worry about it.
I just thought it was interesting, as its been something I've thought back on from time to time over the years, and was somewhat relevant to the threads subject matter.

-TS-

Hold on a second. Here's what I said:

Old houses have a tendency to make strange noises, so something mundance cant be ruled out. Of course, they could've be from a guy who liked to stay up late. It hardly takes any imagination to figure out what a college student would want to do late at night. How the person/ sounds got up there would be the tricky part, unless they were the ones who had access to the rooms.

 

[elipse]

After my first cat died, every once in a while, right when I was falling asleep, I would "feel" the slight bounce of the bed that happened when he would jump up to sleep with me. The first time it happened I jolted up and actually checked before I was quite awake to see if he was there. It has happened since a few times, and I just smile and thank my imagination for reminding me of him. I found it interesting to experience the kind of event that someone else would accept as a paranormal event--in fact, I have a friend I would never tell about this, because she would be sure my dead cat's ghost or spirit was visiting me, and I have a hard enough time holding my tongue when it's her own dead loved ones who she is sure come back as spirits.

I never felt the need for a more specific explanation than "edge of sleep imagination", but would that qualify as a tactile hallucination?

ps right after he died, I also dreamed that he had come back from the dead, and I knew he was a zombie cat, but he didn't look all gross or act weird, so in my dream I decided not to worry about the fact that he was a zombie and just give him hugs and snuggles. I liked that dream a lot.

 

[JoeMorgue]

1. People lie.
2. People can be mistaken.
3. People lie.
4. People can be delusional.
5. People lie.
6. People can misunderstand natural or explainable phenomena.
7. People lie.
8. People can mishear stories 2nd or 3rd hand.
9. People lie.
10. People can hallucinate.
11. People lie.
12. People can be under the influence of alcohol or other drugs.
13. People lie.

 

[GeeMack]

1. People lie.
2. People can be mistaken.
3. People lie.
4. People can be delusional.
5. People lie.
6. People can misunderstand natural or explainable phenomena.
7. People lie.
8. People can mishear stories 2nd or 3rd hand.
9. People lie.
10. People can hallucinate.
11. People lie.
12. People can be under the influence of alcohol or other drugs.
13. People lie.

Yes. All too often people want paranormal explanations for odd occurrences and experiences, so they jump right past the long list of mundane possibilities. Notice how Andyman409 started this thread and the poltergeist thread in order to trade ghost stories, not to apply any critical thinking to the matter. When someone points out that the burden of proof falls to the claimant and when rational explanations are offered, he ignores them like they're invisible and goes back to asking who has another ghost story. It's a great example of pretending to be skeptical when it's actually the opposite of skepticism.

Until those mundane explanations are thoroughly explored and reasonably eliminated, all of them, it's foolish to even consider ghosts or other supernatural nonsense. Poltergeist and not-poltergeist are not equally valid propositions. Somewhere half way between natural and paranormal is not a rational starting point for explaining difficult to understand happenings. The starting point is the null hypothesis which is, all apparently supernatural phenomena are the result of purely natural causes. Falsify that and you're getting somewhere.

 

[Resume]

Hold on a second. Here's what I said:

Does "tricky" mean impossible to you?

 

[SezMe]

So what do you do, if you experience something, and being a common sense logical kind of guy, you run through every possible normal/natural scenario you can think of, without even considering any *woo* stuff, but you cannot figure out the solution ?

I thought you yourself gave an excellent answer in the very same post:

... just file it away in the "Unsolved Mysteries" folder in the old brain bucket.

"I don't know" is sometimes a perfectly acceptable answer.

 

[Andyman409]

Does "tricky" mean impossible to you?

Since when did "tricky" mean impossible to anyone? I gave two possibilities of what caused the sound- thats it. A third is that the sound appeared to be over his head, when it fact it was coming from somewhere else. That would make the stoned/frivilous teenager hypothesis much stronger. I'm not saying it's what happened- but that its a possibility. The guy wanted possibilities, so I gave him some.

 

[Andyman409]

Yes. All too often people want paranormal explanations for odd occurrences and experiences, so they jump right past the long list of mundane possibilities. Notice how Andyman409 started this thread and the poltergeist thread in order to trade ghost stories, not to apply any critical thinking to the matter. When someone points out that the burden of proof falls to the claimant and when rational explanations are offered, he ignores them like they're invisible and goes back to asking who has another ghost story. It's a great example of pretending to be skeptical when it's actually the opposite of skepticism.

Until those mundane explanations are thoroughly explored and reasonably eliminated, all of them, it's foolish to even consider ghosts or other supernatural nonsense. Poltergeist and not-poltergeist are not equally valid propositions. Somewhere half way between natural and paranormal is not a rational starting point for the explaining difficult to understand happenings. The starting point is the null hypothesis which is, all apparently supernatural phenomena are the result of purely natural causes. Falsify that and you're getting somewhere.

Share ghost stories? One of my biggest, if not the biggest, reason I came here was to understand why some people like this guy consider ghosts/poltergeists to be such strong evidence for the afterlife. Sure, one can mock them for being deluded fools. I just prefer to understand their position before ridiculing it. Sorry for finding them interesting.

 

[Resume]

Since when did "tricky" mean impossible to anyone? I gave two possibilities of what caused the sound- thats it. A third is that the sound appeared to be over his head, when it fact it was coming from somewhere else. That would make the stoned/frivilous teenager hypothesis much stronger. I'm not saying it's what happened- but that its a possibility. The guy wanted probabilities, so I gave him some.

Excellent!

So would you say that given the lack of any objective evidence for a paranormal conclusion, such a conclusion lacks merit?

Provisionally speaking of course.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Sure, one can mock them for being deluded fools.

We're not "mocking them for being deluded fools" out of some childish schoolyard bullying glee.

We're simply stating that there is no rational, empirical, objective evidence to entertain their notions.

You're not the first person the flood this forums with threads expecting the rational members here to prove why this one particular case after one particular case are wrong despite none of the particular cases you present being all that note worthy.

If you're bound and determined to go into stuff like this with the mentality of constantly trying to come up with an excuse as to why this one case of paranormal bunk is different fine, none of use can stop you. But I fail to see to what end or what purpose.

These vague "Can you be sure it's not different this time?" posts serve no purpose and have obvious ulterior motives.

 

[PixyMisa]

Share ghost stories? One of my biggest, if not the biggest, reason I came here was to understand why some people like this guy consider ghosts/poltergeists to be such strong evidence for the afterlife.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_memory_biases
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

 

[Resume]

Share ghost stories? One of my biggest, if not the biggest, reason I came here was to understand why some people like this guy consider ghosts/poltergeists to be such strong evidence for the afterlife. Sure, one can mock them for being deluded fools. I just prefer to understand their position before ridiculing it. Sorry for finding them interesting.

What do you need to understand about his position?

Additionally, could you detail what you find about these anecdotes interesting?

Thanks.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Share ghost stories? One of my biggest, if not the biggest, reason I came here was to understand why some people like this guy consider ghosts/poltergeists to be such strong evidence for the afterlife.

You know I'll make it even broader, simpler, and more basic then Pixy did.

Because he's wrong. Either intentionally or unintentionally, honestly or dishonestly, for noble or not noble reasons I neither know nor care not does it make a difference.