Julian Assange: rapist or not?

[uke2se]

Are you making up things as you go?

I think we've established quite firmly that this is the case for Kaosium.

 

[Jaxe]

And what does this mean for the case?

You are talking about a woman who ran a blog with tips on how to really hurt men through abusing the justice system, who knew exactly how to do it, and who's been on a first name basis for atleast 10 years with with one of the most controversial lawyers in sweden (on the very subject).

And the question i believe was, why him?...

 

[uke2se]

I've already figured it out, as for the precise numbers, I leave that as an exercise for the student.

Please prove your assertions. Failure to do so diminishes your credibility. I will keep reminding you.

You're starting to sound like all the ones who kept saying 'nineteen judges found them guilty![/i] but you don't even have a determination of guilt! You do however have a prosecutor who said there was no evidence of rape in the statements until the politically-motivated types went for 'Skandalllllll!'

We also have two prosecutors and three courts saying there is evidence of rape. This includes legal professionals in two nations.

 

[uke2se]

You are talking about a woman who ran a blog with tips on how to really hurt men through abusing the justice system, who knew exactly how to do it, and who's been on a first name basis for atleast 10 years with with one of the most controversial lawyers in sweden (on the very subject).

And the question i believe was, why him?...

Please link to this blog about abusing the justice system.

Also, please answer the question. How does her knowing her would be lawyer affect the facts of the court case?

 

[Jaxe]

Please link to this blog about abusing the justice system.

The blog was closed it down not long after the news first hit the streets. I've read copies of her posts on various places when this was still news. One of them is reprinted here (not as easy to find as it used to be). I realize she does not mention abusing the legal system specifically. But the 7 step revenge list and her knowledge of the system is enough to make the point stick. Which is if she was out for revenge, this method would be very probable.

Also, please answer the question. How does her knowing her would be lawyer affect the facts of the court case?

The question was, i say again, "Why would she choose him?"

 

[uke2se]

The blog was closed it down not long after the news first hit the streets. I've read copies of her posts on various places when this was still news. One of them is reprinted here (not as easy to find as it used to be). I realize she does not mention abusing the legal system specifically. But the 7 step revenge list and her knowledge of the system is enough to make the point stick. Which is if she was out for revenge, this method would be very probable.

This method? There's no method there. It's basically a list of how to manage a revenge scheme, not any pointers on how to go about it. Seriously, is this doing the rounds on the Assange sycophant blogs? Reaching for straws, indeed.

The question was, i say again, "Why would she choose him?"

Nope. The question was "How does her knowing her would be lawyer affect the facts of the court case?" I know this, because i posed the question. It still hasn't gotten an answer.

To answer your question, she chose him because she knows him. That's the way I would prefer to go about it when selecting a lawyer.

 

[uke2se]

For those not well versed in Swedish, I'll translate Anna Ardin's "secret how-to handbook on how to abuse the Swedish justice system for vengeance".

Steg 1
Tänk igenom väldigt noga om du verkligen ska hämnas. Det är nästan alltid bättre att förlåta än att hämnas

Step 1
Really think through if you want revenge. It's almost always better to forgive than to get revenge.

Steg 2
Tänk igenom varför du ska hämnas. Du behöver alltså inte bara vara på det klara med vem du ska hämnas på utan också varför. Hämnd ska aldrig riktas mot bara en person, utan även möta en viss handling.

Step 2
Think through why you want revenge. You not only need to know who you want revenge on, but why. Vengeance should never just be directed against a person, but also against a specific act.

Steg 3
Proportionalitetsprincipen. Kom ihåg att hämnden inte bara ska matcha dådet i storlek utan även i art. En bra hämnd är kopplad till det som gjorts mot dig. Om du till exempel vill hämnas på någon som varit otrogen eller som dumpat dig, så bör straffet ha något med dejting/sex/trohet att göra.

Step 3
Proportion principle. Remember that vengeance not only should match the deed in size, but also in kind. A good vengeance is connected to that which has been done to you. If you for example want revenge on someone who has been cheating on you or dumped you, the penalty should have something to do with dating/sex/fidelity.

Steg 4
Gör en brainstorm kring lämpliga åtgärder för kategorin av hämnd du är ute efter. För att fortsätta exemplet ovan så kan du paja ditt offers nuvarande relation, fixa så att dennes nye partner är otrogen eller se till att han får en galning efter sig. Använd din fantasi!

Step 4
Brainstorm around appropriate actions for the category of vengeance you are after. To continue the example from above, you could mess up your victim's current relationship, make sure his partner cheats on him or send a madwoman after him. Use your imagination.

Steg 5
Tänk ut hur du kan hämnas systematiskt. Kanske kan en serie brev och foton som får den nya att tro att ni ännu ses bättre än bara en stor lögn vid ett enstaka tillfälle?

Step 5
Think through how you can get revenge systematically. Maybe a series of letters and photos that let's his new flame believe that the two of you are still together is better than a big lie at a single occasion.

Steg 6
Ranka dina systematiska hämndscheman från låg till hög i termer av troligt lyckat genomförande, krävd insats från dig samt grad av tillfredsställelse om du lyckas. Den ideala hämnden ligger givetvis så högt som möjligt i dessa staplar, men ofta kan en ökad insats av arbete och kapital ge säkrare output för de andra två, egentligen viktigare parametrarna.

Step 6
Rank your systematic vengeance schemes from low to high according to probability of successful accomplishment, needed effort and amount of satisfaction if you succeed. The ideal vengeance of course lies as high as possible in these columns, but quite often an increased amount of effort and capital can provide a more secure outcome for the other two, more important parameters.

Step 7
Skrid till verket. Och kom ihåg vilket ditt mål är medan du opererar, se till att ditt offer får lida på samma sätt som han fick dig att lida.”

Step 7
Go to work. And, remember what your goal is when you are in action, make sure your victim gets to suffer the same way he made you suffer.


So, nothing about how to game the Swedish Judiciary system. Simply a list of how to get back at your fella when he cheats on you. Schoolgirl stuff.

Also please note that this was a single blog-post. Not an entire blog.

Jaxe, would you like to explain the discrepancies between your description of this blog post and what is actually there? Was it an intentional lie on your part, or did you simply take for granted what you read on an Assange-sycophantic blog?

 

[Jaxe]

Please prove your assertion that there are numerous false allegations in Sweden. I mean "prove" as in, with evidence, as opposed to making stuff up.

It's only loosely related to what you're asking for, and it's not really a reply, but it just reminded me of these two cases.

Billy Butt

Tito Beltran

That's just the celebrities who ended up in the papers, i'm not going to speculate on how many unknown people end up at the chopping block, but even if there's only "a few", heck, even if there are none, the two above would be enough to demonstrate that rape cases in Sweden can be highly controversial. Not to mention the way they end.

 

[Jaxe]

This method? There's no method there. It's basically a list of how to manage a revenge scheme, not any pointers on how to go about it. Seriously, is this doing the rounds on the Assange sycophant blogs? Reaching for straws, indeed.

She is through her occupation and her involvment in Brödraskapet well aquanted with how swedish law works with rape accusations. All the list does is demonstrate that she is very willing to seek revenge. That's all it needs to do.

 

[uke2se]

It's only loosely related to what you're asking for, and it's not really a reply, but it just reminded me of these two cases.

Billy Butt

Tito Beltran

That's just the celebrities who ended up in the papers, i'm not going to speculate on how many unknown people end up at the chopping block, but even if there's only "a few", heck, even if there are none, the two above would be enough to demonstrate that rape cases in Sweden can be highly controversial. Not to mention the way they end.

Two editorials? That's your evidence? Sorry, I'm going to have to ask for more. Statistics.

 

[Jaxe]

Now, has it ever been determined just why those two women went to that lawyer? Was he perhaps recommended by someone, or was it just coincidence?

There's a thread about this in the conspiracy forum. You are welcome to make wild assertions there.

The question was why.

 

[Here_to_learn]

That's just the celebrities who ended up in the papers, i'm not going to speculate on how many unknown people end up at the chopping block, but even if there's only "a few", heck, even if there are none, the two above would be enough to demonstrate that rape cases in Sweden can be highly controversial. Not to mention the way they end.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the legal system in Sweden is perfect. But just because errors has been made previously does not mean that this specific case is a mistake.

One additional point is also that the link you provided regarding TB ends with TBs lawyer expressing relief over the new decision from the supreme courts that would avoid that specific error again.

Surely you are not arguing that since rape cases can be controversial in Sweden (in what jurisdiction are they not controversial?) they should not be prosecuted?

 

[uke2se]

She is through her occupation and her involvment in Brödraskapet well aquanted with how swedish law works with rape accusations. All the list does is demonstrate that she is very willing to seek revenge. That's all it needs to do.

Nope. It needs to be a blog "with tips on how to really hurt men through abusing the justice system". It isn't. So, that's a lie from you.

Anna Ardin isn't involved with anything called "Brödraskapet". She is involved with a Social Democratic Christian organization called "Broderskapsrörelsen". That organization has nothing to do with Swedish law and rape accusations, so that's another lie from you.

The list doesn't show Anna Ardin is "very willing to seek revenge". It shows that she was abandoned by her boyfriend and was upset. I'm going to make a guess here that you, Jaxe, have never actually had any contact with a member of the female gender. They tend to get upset when you treat them badly. This includes writing mean things in their diaries and blogs.

ETA - A tip for you, Jaxe: Don't get your news from flashback. It's not known for its accuracy in reporting.

 

[uke2se]

The question was why.

Nope, the question was "How does her knowing her would be lawyer affect the facts of the court case?" The question "why" was answered many posts ago.

 

[Jaxe]

Two editorials? That's your evidence? Sorry, I'm going to have to ask for more. Statistics.

Statistics for what? A demonstration that rape cases in Sweden can and have in the past had very controversial outcomes, even when they're celebrities and thus pretty open to the public to see the travesty that's going on right before their eyes?

 

[uke2se]

Statistics for what? A demonstration that rape cases in Sweden can and have in the past had very controversial outcomes, even when they're celebrities and thus pretty open to the public to see the travesty that's going on right before their eyes?

No, statistics that show that there are numerous cases in Sweden where false rape allegations have led to convictions, and that this number is higher than in other nations. Remember? That was the original contention.

 

[tsig]

Nope, it's cases like this that make a mockery of rape, and who harm innocents by not dissuading false allegations like this.

The two of them either repeatedly had consensual sex with Julian Assange or slept in the same bed with him days afterward while he was living with them and didn't do any complaining about it until they found out he was sleeping with both. They got their pound of flesh for that, pretending that Julian Assange should also do years in prison after all the other damage has been done to his reputation and perhaps even inflicting significant mental anguish is a sadistic position.

The state of rape law in Sweden these days is a disgraceful violation of human rights and should be condemned. You're not going to get anywhere chest-thumping in outrage with me, though I might make more jokes about moose and Swedish women.

Ok, is it jealous women who want revenge or overzealous prosecutors who trumped up a case or a conspiracy by unknown organizations? You've advocated all three.

 

[Jaxe]

Nope. It needs to be a blog "with tips on how to really hurt men through abusing the justice system". It isn't. So, that's a lie from you.

The details may have been incorrect, but the point was never wrong. That she has knowledge about the system is easily demonstratable, it's one of the reasons she holds the position at the Upsala University, the 'lie' was irrelevant, all the list needs to show is exactly what it says.

Anna Ardin isn't involved with anything called "Brödraskapet". She is involved with a Social Democratic Christian organization called "Broderskapsrörelsen". That organization has nothing to do with Swedish law and rape accusations, so that's another lie from you.

She is very well aquainted with 'gender' laws in particular from her background at Uppsala University and her radical feminist activities through the "Broderskapsrörelsen".

The list doesn't show Anna Ardin is "very willing to seek revenge". It shows that she was abandoned by her boyfriend and was upset. I'm going to make a guess here that you, Jaxe, have never actually had any contact with a member of the female gender. They tend to get upset when you treat them badly. This includes writing mean things in their diaries and blogs.

It also includes seeking revenge. Also very very low attempt at ad hominem. Try to stay calm. There are no emotions invested here.

ETA - A tip for you, Jaxe: Don't get your news from flashback. It's not known for its accuracy in reporting.

Actually it is, it's just burried in lots of junk.

 

[Jaxe]

No, statistics that show that there are numerous cases in Sweden where false rape allegations have led to convictions, and that this number is higher than in other nations. Remember? That was the original contention.

It was, it had nothing more to do with my post other than that it reminded me of something similar. It was not meant to show statistics. Do you consider the two cases presented as fantasy? as not at all controversial? Either they show that the swedish legal system when it comes to sexual crimes is not to be trusted, or they're false. Which do you claim it is?

ETA. intersesting factoid, in the case against Tito Beltran, the people involved were Monica Dahlström-Lannes and Tomas Bodström.

 

[uke2se]

The details may have been incorrect, but the point was never wrong. That she has knowledge about the system is easily demonstratable, it's one of the reasons she holds the position at the Upsala University,

Ok, so you are now arguing that Ardin knows about the system so she must have set Assange up?

the 'lie' was irrelevant, all the list needs to show is exactly what it says.

A lie is never irrelevant. You felt the need to make this blog post into something that it isn't. Why did you feel the need to lie, Jaxe? I mean, especially if, as you say, "all the list needs to show is exactly what it says"? Do you think Anna Ardin is the only person in Stockholm who has written a diary or blog entry about getting revenge on a cheating lover? In Sweden? In the world?

She is very well aquainted with 'gender' laws in particular from her background at Uppsala University and her radical feminist activities through the "Broderskapsrörelsen".

But does she know how to game the system in order to frame someone for rape? That was your accusation, after all. Can you prove that she not only has this knowledge, but actually did it as well?

By the way, "Broderskapsrörelsen" (I'm happy you realize you were wrong about the name. An admittance of that fact would have been nice, though.) doesn't deal specifically with gender issues.

It also includes seeking revenge.

Yes, the list includes seeking revenge on a cheating lover. I translated it above for all to see. What it doesn't do is show how to game the justice system in order to get revenge. Why did you lie and say that it did, Jaxe?

Also very very low attempt at ad hominem. Try to stay calm. There are no emotions invested here.

I didn't make an ad hominem attack. You might want to read up on what that actually is. I simply guessed from your apparent unfamiliarity with women's feelings that you are quite young, and not very well versed in such things.

Actually it is, it's just burried in lots of junk.

And we see from your arguments that the junk is what sticks.