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Julian Assange: rapist or not?

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After reading your lengthy post undermining the credibility of the rape case, I have no idea what explanation you think is more plausible. Would you be willing to summarize it (or link to a post in this thread where you've already done so)?

I think what happened is he messed around with women in a place where it's very easy to file a rape charge, which they did when they found out things about him that displeased them. Being as he didn't actually rape them, or have any reason to think he might be charged with it, when he was accused he naturally assumed one of the numerous entities that he has reason to believe might also dislike him must be behind it somehow, so after talking to them and not having it resolved quickly he fled.

Since just about everyone now has reason to want to see him go down for something the Swedes won't back down, the Brits wash their hands and everyone else just laughs their asses off. :)
 
I think what happened is he messed around with women in a place where it's very easy to file a rape charge, which they did when they found out things about him that displeased them. Being as he didn't actually rape them, or have any reason to think he might be charged with it, when he was accused he naturally assumed one of the numerous entities that he has reason to believe might also dislike him must be behind it somehow, so after talking to them and not having it resolved quickly he fled.
Why did he naturally assume that? You have substantially the same information he does, but you naturally assumed what you believe to be a much more plausible explanation?

I mean, when you look at the rape case, you think it's pretty weak and that Sweden goes a little overboard, but you still think that's the most plausible explanation. You think it's reasonable to expect that the US will persecute Assange in some way, but you still think the Swedish rape case, as weak as it is, is most likely no more than what it appears to be.

Obviously we can't read Assange's mind, so we don't know for sure what his motivation is for claiming that the Swedish rape case is actually a US plot to... something. But it seems like reasonable people don't think that's a reasonable claim.

You seem to be wanting it both ways: You want to agree with reasonable people about what happened, but you also want to agree with Assange that his explanation of what happened is also reasonable.
 
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I think what happened is he messed around with women in a place where it's very easy to file a rape charge, which they did when they found out things about him that displeased them. Being as he didn't actually rape them, or have any reason to think he might be charged with it, when he was accused he naturally assumed one of the numerous entities that he has reason to believe might also dislike him must be behind it somehow, so after talking to them and not having it resolved quickly he fled.

since you boiled your long post down to this one, it's a bit easier to comment on, especially since it seems we have similar views on most things and the real issue lies in whether there was an alleged crime.

I disagree that it is "very easy to file a rape charge" in fact in articles posted by others they complain exactly the opposite, that it's hard to file rape claims and so that this one has made it this far makes it unusual. You can't have it both ways.

I want to focus on if a crime was commited, based on the women's statements which you linked to. Let's have a look.

1. Unlawful coercion

On 13-14 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [AA] in Stockholm. Assange, by using violence. forced the injured party to endure his restricting her freedom of movement. The violence consisted in a firm hold of the injured party's arms and a forceful spreading of her legs whilst lying on top of her and with his body weight preventing her from moving or shifting.


From the Statment of Anna Ardin:

Then they lay in the bed. Anna was on her back and Assange was on top of her. Anna thought Assange wanted to immediately put his penis in her vagina which she didn't want as he didn't have a condom on. So she tried to twist her hips to the side and squeeze her legs together to prevent a penetration. Anna tried several times to reach for a condom which Assange stopped her from doing by holding her arms and prying open her legs and trying nevertheless to penetrate her with his penis without a condom. Anna says that in the end she was ready to cry because she was pinned and couldn't reach a condom and thought 'this might not end well'. In answer to a question Anna says Assange must have known she was trying to reach for a condom and he was holding her arms to stop her.

2. Sexual molestation

On 13-14 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [AA] in Stockholm, Assange deliberately molested the injured party by acting in a manner designed to violate her sexual integrity. Assange, who was aware that it was the expressed wish of the injured party and a prerequisite of sexual intercourse that a condom be used, consummated unprotected sexual intercourse with her without her knowledge.


From the Statment of Anna Ardin:

After a while Assange ejaculates inside her and thereafter withdraws. Anna saw that the condom didn't have semen in it when Assange took it off. When Anna began moving her body she noticed how things were running out of her vagina. Anna understood rather quickly that it must be Assange's semen. She pointed this out for Assange but he denied this and told her it was she who was wet with her own juices. Anna is convinced that Assange, when he withdrew from her the first time, deliberately broken the condom at the tip and thereafter continued the sex with the resulting ejaculation.

3. Sexual molestation

On 18 August 2010 or on any of the days before or after that date, in the home of the injured party [AA] in Stockholm, Assange deliberately molested the injured party by acting in a manner designed to violate her sexual integrity i.e. lying next to her and pressing his naked, erect penis to her body.


From the Statment of Anna Ardin:

After the above mentioned incident Anna says she and Assange didn't have any more sex. Yet Assange went on living with her up to and including Friday 20 August. According to Anna Assange made sexual overtures every day after that evening when they'd had sex. For example by touching her breasts. Anna rebuffed Assange on all these occasions and Assange accepted it. On one occasion, Wednesday 18 August, he'd suddenly removed all his clothing on his lower body and thereafter rubbed his lower body and his erect penis against Anna. Anna says she thought this was strange behaviour and uncomfortable and had therefore moved down to a mattress on the floor and slept there instead of up in the bed with Assange.

4. Rape

On 17 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [SW] in Enkoping, Assange deliberately consummated sexual intercourse with her by improperly exploiting that she, due to sleep. was in a helpless state.


From the Statment of Sofia Wilén:

They fell asleep and she woke by feeling him penetrate her.

So that is from the statments you posted. Each of the accusations is certainly in the statments of the two.

I also want to note something very important. Accepting a non-consensual action after the fact does not make it consensual. Just because AA accepted having sex once Assange put on the condom does not mean that his eariler actions were acceptable, or no longer breached the law (if they did.) Likewise, starting sexual intercourse without consent doesn't magically get turned into a consensual action because the person doesn't object to it immediately. If I punch you in face and you fail to object or state, "okay I deserved that," it doesn't make it any less assualt. No one would suggest that if a man pulled a knife and forced himself on a girl that such an action would be legal if after he was in he put the knife away and she failed to object and tell him to stop.

It's also clear that she wan't happy with the action and felt there was little she could do to stop it.

She felt it was too late. He was already inside her and she let him continue. She couldn't be bothered telling him again. She'd been nagging about condoms all night long.

What is also quite clear from Sophie's interview is that she was unware that what she experienced was likely illegal, and it wasn't until others explained it that she became aware.

When she talked with her friends afterwards she understood she was the victim of a crime. She went into Danderyd hospital and went from there to the Söder hospital. There she was examined and they even took samples with a so-called 'rape kit'.

At the end of the day there are several things to note...

1) Getting consent to have sex with a condom does not automatically grant consent for sex without a condom.

2) Having been given consent for sex at one point in time, doesn't give a right to take sex at another point in time without consent.

3) Starting sex without consent is non-consentual sex, regardless of what occurs after that point.

When you consider these three things with the information from the statments above, there seems no doubt that the accusations that Assange faces are at least valid from the police and prosecution's point of view.
 
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It's safe to say that the people responsible for that tweet are mentally insane. Driven mad by a cult memetic virus, I'd reckon. Where the only cure is their own medicine they most certainly will not take...
 
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Name the one's which were confirmed as genuine by empirical evidence, e.g recordings of their engines. Then explain how this justifies the hype.

Not how it works. You're trying to deny accepted historical fact. Just like when it comes to holocaust denial, the burden is on you to prove history wrong.
 
PhantomWolf said:
From the Statment of Anna Ardin:

Quote:
Then they lay in the bed. Anna was on her back and Assange was on top of her. Anna thought Assange wanted to immediately put his penis in her vagina which she didn't want as he didn't have a condom on. So she tried to twist her hips to the side and squeeze her legs together to prevent a penetration. Anna tried several times to reach for a condom which Assange stopped her from doing by holding her arms and prying open her legs and trying nevertheless to penetrate her with his penis without a condom. Anna says that in the end she was ready to cry because she was pinned and couldn't reach a condom and thought 'this might not end well'. In answer to a question Anna says Assange must have known she was trying to reach for a condom and he was holding her arms to stop her.

I believe what she is saying, what I don't understand is why she didn't tell him out loud that she wanted him to hold off until she could get a condom. She said "Assange must have known she was trying to reach for a condom". Why should he have known that? He would have to have been psychic to know what she was thinking. Because she didn't actually ask him to wait, he had no way of knowing what she was doing or why she was doing it. This completely throws into question whether he was intentionally holding her down against her will with the express purpose of preventing her from getting a condom. Had she just asked he may well have acceded to her conditions willingly.

From the Statment of Anna Ardin:

Quote:
After a while Assange ejaculates inside her and thereafter withdraws. Anna saw that the condom didn't have semen in it when Assange took it off. When Anna began moving her body she noticed how things were running out of her vagina. Anna understood rather quickly that it must be Assange's semen. She pointed this out for Assange but he denied this and told her it was she who was wet with her own juices. Anna is convinced that Assange, when he withdrew from her the first time, deliberately broken the condom at the tip and thereafter continued the sex with the resulting ejaculation.

From her own statement, Assange was wearing a condom when she required him to do so. The only thing in question is whether he deliberately broke the condom at the tip so that he could ___? What would be his motivation for doing this to a person he only knew for a few hours? He was willing to wear the condom, so why poke a hole in it? It makes no sense, it's not logical and makes her sound unusually paranoid. Could the condom have been defective? That's a lot more plausible than him intentionally trying to impregnate or give her an STD.

From the Statment of Anna Ardin:

Quote:
After the above mentioned incident Anna says she and Assange didn't have any more sex. Yet Assange went on living with her up to and including Friday 20 August. According to Anna Assange made sexual overtures every day after that evening when they'd had sex. For example by touching her breasts. Anna rebuffed Assange on all these occasions and Assange accepted it. On one occasion, Wednesday 18 August, he'd suddenly removed all his clothing on his lower body and thereafter rubbed his lower body and his erect penis against Anna. Anna says she thought this was strange behaviour and uncomfortable and had therefore moved down to a mattress on the floor and slept there instead of up in the bed with Assange.[/QUOTE]


By her own admission "Anna rebuffed Assange on all these occasions and Assange accepted it." In other words, he stopped when she asked him to and did not force her to have sex with him. If she didn't want to have sex with him any more, why did she continue to let him stay with her and share her bed? His friend offered to let Julian stay with him so that Anna could have her place back but Anna insisted that Julian stay with her. She obviously didn't appreciate his sexual advances so why not kick him out? She wasn't obligated in any way to let him stay. Why sleep on a separate mattress on the floor of her own house? I believe that she didn't like it when he "rubbed his lower body and his erect penis against Anna." but it sounds like she was giving him mixed messages by continuing to let him sleep in her bed. By doing so she allowed him to think he still had a chance of sex with her. He may have been presumptuous in making a pass at her in this way but in my opinion it doesn't sound like she made it clear to him that she wanted no more sex from him ever and that his overtures made her feel violated in any way.
 
Not how it works. You're trying to deny accepted historical fact. Just like when it comes to holocaust denial, the burden is on you to prove history wrong.

It's almost as if she can't prove her point and is trying to shift the burden of proof and attack her opponents!

Or is it that she's terrified of actually expressing her views on the matter for fear they'll be actually challenged?

Seriously, Jane, trying to phrase your insinuations about your opponents in the form of a rhetorical question fools no one.

...
By her own admission "Anna rebuffed Assange on all these occasions and Assange accepted it." In other words, he stopped when she asked him to and did not force her to have sex with him. If she didn't want to have sex with him any more, why did she continue to let him stay with her and share her bed? His friend offered to let Julian stay with him so that Anna could have her place back but Anna insisted that Julian stay with her. She obviously didn't appreciate his sexual advances so why not kick him out? ...
"If he beats you, why not just leave him?"
 
000063 said:
"If he beats you, why not just leave him?"

By phrasing it that way it's like saying that the victim is partially to blame for staying in an abusive relationship. In a matter of spousal abuse, the victim may be scared to leave because she fears reprisal. In this case however, Anna had nothing to fear from asking Julian to leave. By her own statement, she did not feel threatened by him.
 
since you boiled your long post down to this one, it's a bit easier to comment on, especially since it seems we have similar views on most things and the real issue lies in whether there was an alleged crime.

I disagree that it is "very easy to file a rape charge" in fact in articles posted by others they complain exactly the opposite, that it's hard to file rape claims and so that this one has made it this far makes it unusual. You can't have it both ways.

I'd say it's worse than you thought. Not only is it very easy to file a rape charge in Sweden, they lead Europe by a wide margin in reported rapes double that of the nearest countries and of all these states listed are second only to Botswana. They also have a per capita rape conviction rate three-four times the European average. So not only do they have an unholy number of reports, they also have an incredible number of convictions. What seems to distress some people is all the ones that don't get prosecuted make for a low prosecution rate, and I suspect they are the sort who wouldn't dare consider that might be because a lot of those are bogus accusations like this one.

Being as the five years previous to this event saw the number of reported rapes increase by 50%, either males in Sweden have been acting like Europe hasn't seen since the Red Army conquered eastern Germany, or it has become quite trendy in Sweden to accuse men of rape on specious grounds as false accusations are seldom prosecuted. I find the former explanation unlikely and the latter fitting quite nicely with Anna's 'legal revenge' blog. :)

I want to focus on if a crime was commited, based on the women's statements which you linked to. Let's have a look.

1. Unlawful coercion

On 13-14 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [AA] in Stockholm. Assange, by using violence. forced the injured party to endure his restricting her freedom of movement. The violence consisted in a firm hold of the injured party's arms and a forceful spreading of her legs whilst lying on top of her and with his body weight preventing her from moving or shifting.


From the Statment of Anna Ardin:



2. Sexual molestation

On 13-14 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [AA] in Stockholm, Assange deliberately molested the injured party by acting in a manner designed to violate her sexual integrity. Assange, who was aware that it was the expressed wish of the injured party and a prerequisite of sexual intercourse that a condom be used, consummated unprotected sexual intercourse with her without her knowledge.

Despite the dramatic retelling, that was consensual sex by her own admission and with a condom. Her own account also notes that she checked more than once that a condom was installed and found that it was. Her assumption that the pool could only have materialized because he deliberately broke the condom for whatever reason is ludicrous.

Anything she, or Sofia below, says about their state of mind, or their opinion of what he was thinking is meaningless as he can't read their minds and well after the fact when they're pissed about him for other reasons.


From the Statment of Anna Ardin:



3. Sexual molestation

On 18 August 2010 or on any of the days before or after that date, in the home of the injured party [AA] in Stockholm, Assange deliberately molested the injured party by acting in a manner designed to violate her sexual integrity i.e. lying next to her and pressing his naked, erect penis to her body.

Which occurred in the context of him being invited to stay with her, having sex with her, and sleeping in her bed. She rebuffed the approach and like all others when she wasn't interested, he demurred. That's not what one would expect of a rapist.

From the Statment of Anna Ardin:



4. Rape

On 17 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [SW] in Enkoping, Assange deliberately consummated sexual intercourse with her by improperly exploiting that she, due to sleep. was in a helpless state.


From the Statment of Sofia Wilén:



So that is from the statments you posted. Each of the accusations is certainly in the statments of the two.

However the context of this one is a marathon sex session where he first disappointed her and fell asleep, then they twice awoke to having sex, regardless of who initiated the encounters (as she doesn't say) it establishes that wasn't beyond the bounds of their sexual relationship, because she then calls in sick to work to continue having sex with him and goes out to get him breakfast. They have sex again and then she awakes to find him starting again and inquires as to the condom and he tells her the truth and she says 'you better not have HIV' and he replies 'of course not,' and she does not object and afterward she even laughs and jokes about having a baby after finding he'd been recently tested. This is her own story.

That's not rape.

As a matter of fact unlike Anna, there's no absolute insistence of a condom with this one either, merely a preference for them and nagging, which he complied with. When he wanted not to use one she didn't object, and it was an issue of mirth until she got to talking to others, finding things out about Assange she didn't like from the one who'd blogged about legal revenge tactics, of which one in Sweden involves condom use... ;)

I also want to note something very important. Accepting a non-consensual action after the fact does not make it consensual. Just because AA accepted having sex once Assange put on the condom does not mean that his eariler actions were acceptable, or no longer breached the law (if they did.) Likewise, starting sexual intercourse without consent doesn't magically get turned into a consensual action because the person doesn't object to it immediately. If I punch you in face and you fail to object or state, "okay I deserved that," it doesn't make it any less assualt. No one would suggest that if a man pulled a knife and forced himself on a girl that such an action would be legal if after he was in he put the knife away and she failed to object and tell him to stop.

Nothing like that happened here though, and there's also an expectation of consent, which happens when two people are willingly in bed naked together. If the slavering brute tries something mild and not out of the ordinary (for a sexual relationship) but something the other doesn't like, then she says something like 'no, don't do that,' and at that point if he fails to comply then the question of withdrawn consent arises. Otherwise we're going to need contracts and pre-choreographed sex!

It's also clear that she wan't happy with the action and felt there was little she could do to stop it.

That's where the word 'No' comes in handy. Her regaling of her state of mind much later is pretty much irrelevant and after indications from her own story she wasn't very distressed about it until she found out he was sleeping with another woman who just happened to know legal revenge strategies.


What is also quite clear from Sophie's interview is that she was unware that what she experienced was likely illegal, and it wasn't until others explained it that she became aware.

Uh, huh, uh huh. :)

Whether or not it's even illegal in Sweden has yet to be established, but what she may have found out is she can get the brute punished by at least being arrested, humiliated and thrown in jail, and there was little chance of consequences for her.



At the end of the day there are several things to note...

1) Getting consent to have sex with a condom does not automatically grant consent for sex without a condom.

2) Having been given consent for sex at one point in time, doesn't give a right to take sex at another point in time without consent.

3) Starting sex without consent is non-consentual sex, regardless of what occurs after that point.

When you consider these three things with the information from the statments above, there seems no doubt that the accusations that Assange faces are at least valid from the police and prosecution's point of view.

Actually the more I look into it, the less I'm sure of even that. It looks to me like it was originally considered not worthy of a rape prosecution as Eva Finné closed it saying “But the content of the interrogation does not support any claim that a crime has been committed” but it was then picked up by an activist lawyer named Claes Borgström from the fringes of one of their political parties who made a fuss and a prosecutor with a reputation for bias in these cases who restarted the whole mess. It appears there's a policewoman named Irmeli Krans who may be connected to Anna and the instigator of this, meaning rape charges never should have been even filed. She was apparently removed from the case and might have embellished something, and she too has activist connections apparently with Claes Borgström but I couldn't find corroboration for that outside blogs and such.

It doesn't actually matter, as the charge is what it is, and in my view that's a mockery of rape and an insult to real victims, however it does explain a great deal about how this got as far as it has. It looks like this is internal Swedish politics and it's activists like this which have lead to Sweden becoming the laughingstock of the free world in regards to rape law and false accusations.

However it works out nicely for everyone else pissed off at Julian Assange, he cowers in corner knowing full well even if he's mailed to Ecuador in a box ('diplomatic pouch'--worse than steerage!) there may very well be those who'd like nothing better than to drag him back to Sweden by his short-n-curlies for his gelding. :p
 
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Why did he naturally assume that? You have substantially the same information he does, but you naturally assumed what you believe to be a much more plausible explanation?

I mean, when you look at the rape case, you think it's pretty weak and that Sweden goes a little overboard, but you still think that's the most plausible explanation. You think it's reasonable to expect that the US will persecute Assange in some way, but you still think the Swedish rape case, as weak as it is, is most likely no more than what it appears to be.

Obviously we can't read Assange's mind, so we don't know for sure what his motivation is for claiming that the Swedish rape case is actually a US plot to... something. But it seems like reasonable people don't think that's a reasonable claim.

You seem to be wanting it both ways: You want to agree with reasonable people about what happened, but you also want to agree with Assange that his explanation of what happened is also reasonable.

I wrote a much longer answer to this but lost it, and the first draft of the one I just rewrote to PW, when I closed Chrome inadvertently and unlike Firefox it did not restore all I typed when I restarted it and restored the windows. I now officially despise Chrome, but have to keep using it because Firefox won't start Youtube anymore for some reason. :(

Briefly I don't think that it's reasonable to expect Julian Assange in his position to necessarily feel the same way anyone else might.

I also don't think it reasonable to think that his fears are entirely unreasonable. Thus maybe the 'reasonable' people all accepted a position that he was unreasonable because he's pissed off so many different people they won't give him an inch? The more people that say something, the more 'reasonable' it appears; that doesn't make it so however. I've a different method of developing my opinion and I've made my case along those lines and see no need to retype it again. :)
 
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I believe what she is saying, what I don't understand is why she didn't tell him out loud that she wanted him to hold off until she could get a condom. She said "Assange must have known she was trying to reach for a condom". Why should he have known that?

Because he was allegedly holding her arms down so that she couldn't get the condom. It might have been more clear to her that a few more details might make more clear to us, or a misunderstanding (she reached for the condom and he just happened to pick that time to hold her arms down). It also matters where the condom was sitting. If it's out in the open, it's more likely he knew what she was reaching for.
 
I'd say it's worse than you thought. Not only is it very easy to file a rape charge in Sweden, they lead Europe by a wide margin in reported rapes double that of the nearest countries and of all these states listed are second only to Botswana. They also have a per capita rape conviction rate three-four times the European average. So not only do they have an unholy number of reports, they also have an incredible number of convictions.

Funny that you quoted part of the reason that it is believed that Sweden has a high complaint level, and not the rest. Funny that you also forgot to add the part of the quote that stated that Sweden's rape rate isn't different to other countries.

in Sweden a lot of effort is made to register all cases that can be suspected to be rape. As this is done at a very early stage of the process, cases are included that later turn out to be some other sex crime, or even no crime at all. In addition to this, all individual acts are registered — not just the latest occasion or the main crime. In many other countries cases like these are filtered out and do not show up in the statistics.

I have no idea why you linked to Nigel Hawkes article to try and prove that Sweden had a high conviction rate of three to four times the European Average as he never states that in the article, all he says is that the UK's is lower than Sweden's.

What seems to distress some people is all the ones that don't get prosecuted make for a low prosecution rate, and I suspect they are the sort who wouldn't dare consider that might be because a lot of those are bogus accusations like this one.

It is well known that rape is notoriously hard to prosecute because 90% of the time it is merely a "He says, She says" case with very little physical evidence. Just because the police fail to prosecute or even when a defendant is found Not Guilty doesn't mean no crime was committed and that the complaint was bogus, it means there wasn't enough evidence to convict. Now that's not saying that all complaints are true either, just that a complaint can be true, but for reasons of evidence it may never get a conviction.

As to this particular case, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I firmly believe that starting sexual intercourse with a sleeping person you are not in a long term relationship with and have no reason to believe that the person would consent if awake, and every reason to know that they would not, is a criminal action that most legal states call rape. You clearly don't. I guess at that point we are at an impasse. It would appear from this case and others that the laws agrees with me however.

Being as the five years previous to this event saw the number of reported rapes increase by 50%, either males in Sweden have been acting like Europe hasn't seen since the Red Army conquered eastern Germany, or it has become quite trendy in Sweden to accuse men of rape on specious grounds as false accusations are seldom prosecuted. I find the former explanation unlikely and the latter fitting quite nicely with Anna's 'legal revenge' blog. :)

This is what we call a false dichotomy.

Despite the dramatic retelling, that was consensual sex by her own admission and with a condom. Her own account also notes that she checked more than once that a condom was installed and found that it was. Her assumption that the pool could only have materialized because he deliberately broke the condom for whatever reason is ludicrous.

Anything she, or Sofia below, says about their state of mind, or their opinion of what he was thinking is meaningless as he can't read their minds and well after the fact when they're pissed about him for other reasons.

No one is claiming that the sex in the case of AA wasn't consensual sex, in fact as you point out she herself says it was. This is why the accusations in the case of AA are not Rape, they are 1. Unlawful coercion, and 2. Sexual molestation. Neither of these require that the sex was non-consensual, so you are throwing in red herrings there. The accusations relate to his alleged holding her down and preventing her from moving while she struggled against him, and the alleged deliberate breaking of the condom.

Which occurred in the context of him being invited to stay with her, having sex with her, and sleeping in her bed. She rebuffed the approach and like all others when she wasn't interested, he demurred. That's not what one would expect of a rapist.

Yes he demurred by allegedly stripping off and rubbing himself against her, an action that left her upset and made her left the property and request him to be gone, something he failed to do for another three days. I'm not sure what world you live in, but the idea that after having had sex with someone once, you are entitled to behave like that towards them is more than creepy to me. By the way, sharing a house and even a bed is NOT a open invitation to having sex, even if the person has had sex with you previously. In fact even being in a sexual relationship with another person is not an open invitation to having sex whenever you want it as most countries have conceded by the introduction of spousal rape laws.

However the context of this one is a marathon sex session where he first disappointed her and fell asleep

If you consider two perhaps three times to be a "marathon sex session".

then they twice awoke to having sex

Blatantly incorrect. on the previous occasions she stated that they awoke and had sex, not that they were awoken by having sex.

regardless of who initiated the encounters (as she doesn't say) it establishes that wasn't beyond the bounds of their sexual relationship, because she then calls in sick to work to continue having sex with him and goes out to get him breakfast.

Again incorrect in details. She called in sick after Assange had left. Going and getting breakfast (which according to her he ordered her to do and wasn't happy about) is not an open invitation to sex.

They have sex again and then she awakes to find him starting again and inquires as to the condom and he tells her the truth and she says 'you better not have HIV' and he replies 'of course not,' and she does not object and afterward she even laughs and jokes about having a baby after finding he'd been recently tested. This is her own story.

That's not rape.

I highlighted the important part for you. Whether you like it or not, previously having has sex does not give you cart blanche to keep having sex whenever you like, even if that sex was earlier in the day. Secondly, starting to have sex with someone who is asleep is a potentially a criminal offence because they are not in a condition to give their consent to such an action. The issue for if it is or isn't for me is would the person have given consent to the action had they been awake? In this case the answer is quite clear. Since she had demanded the use of condoms previously, in fact in her own words "She'd been nagging about condoms all night long," she would not have consented to having unprotected sex with Assange had she been awake when the act had commenced.

To me the actions taken afterward are irrelevant to whether consent was given for two reasons. 1) I find it very hard to accept the post dating of consent. Consent needs to be given before the action, not after. If consent is not gained before an action, then by definition that action is non-consensual. And no, consent can't just be assumed by previous actions. 2) In many cases, and it appears this is one, once the action has been started, the infringed party merely accepts that action based on the fact it is already being done. This is not consent but rather resignation to the action after the fact.

As a matter of fact unlike Anna, there's no absolute insistence of a condom with this one either, merely a preference for them and nagging, which he complied with. When he wanted not to use one she didn't object, and it was an issue of mirth until she got to talking to others, finding things out about Assange she didn't like from the one who'd blogged about legal revenge tactics, of which one in Sweden involves condom use... ;)

This boils down to the whole "Victims must act in the specific way I demand or they can't be victims" mentality. I fail to agree with you here. People act in entirely different ways to things, and most of the time that won't be the way you demand that they do. Also, to the whole "no absolute insistence of a condom" the only time she failed to insist on one was when he started when she was sleep. Assange was fully aware that on the previous occasions she had indeed insisted on his using them and so had absolutely no excuse for claiming not to have known it in the final case. The allowing it to continue was not an acceptance of not having one, but rather a resignation to what was being done to her because it was too late to change it.

"She felt it was too late. He was already inside her and she let him continue. She couldn't be bothered telling him again. She'd been nagging about condoms all night long."

This is a classic response to a feeling of powerlessness and resignation to allow a form of abuse to continue. It doesn't make a person any less a victim. When a spouse is being beaten, they don't stop being a victim because they give up and just accept the beatings without complaint.

Nothing like that happened here though, and there's also an expectation of consent, which happens when two people are willingly in bed naked together.

Wow. Sorry but being in bed naked with someone in no way shape or form implies consent to having sex.

If the slavering brute tries something mild and not out of the ordinary (for a sexual relationship) but something the other doesn't like, then she says something like 'no, don't do that,' and at that point if he fails to comply then the question of withdrawn consent arises. Otherwise we're going to need contracts and pre-choreographed sex!

We're not talking about trying "something mild and not out of the ordinary (for the relationship they had)" we are talking about a man starting sexual intercourse in a manner that he knew, after being told repeatedly, was unacceptable at a point in time that he also knew the woman would be unable to object to his doing so. No contracts and choreography needed, just some descent human manners and being able to do what the woman wanted after being told multiple times, rather than forcing his own will onto her.

That's where the word 'No' comes in handy. Her regaling of her state of mind much later is pretty much irrelevant and after indications from her own story she wasn't very distressed about it until she found out he was sleeping with another woman who just happened to know legal revenge strategies.

Again untrue to her statement. It states that she learned that "she understood she was the victim of a crime" after talking with her friends later. It doesn't state, and there is no evidence that this discussion happened after she had spoken with AA and found out he'd slept with her. If anything she was likely under the impression given to her by Assange that AA was only into girls at the time she spoke to her friends.

Uh, huh, uh huh. :)

Yes amazing isn't it, some people may not know that they have been offended against until it's explained to them by someone else that actually knows the law. Funny thing, I didn't know I had been illegally dismissed from a job back in 1998 when I was forced to resign, until I had it explained to me a couple of months ago. I was in the dark about being the victim of an employment crime for 14 years! I was also involved in a case of sexual harassment (as a victim) where I didn't recognise what it was for well two years until I attended a seminar on sexual harassment in the workplace and went, OMG that was me. All I knew what that the person in question made me highly uncomfortable in her actions towards me. By that stage I had already left the company, and so has she. The fact of the matter is that in the clear light of day, and with a number of years to reflect on what occurred, you still seem to be unwilling to accept that it might have been a crime, so to point the finger and say she should have known immediately and responded to it as such, or it wasn't one, certainly is a double standard.

Whether or not it's even illegal in Sweden has yet to be established, but what she may have found out is she can get the brute punished by at least being arrested, humiliated and thrown in jail, and there was little chance of consequences for her.

Or she might have found out that commencing sexual intercourse when a person in unable to consent and doing so in a manner they would not have consented to is called non-consensual sex, or if you want a non technical term for it, rape.



I'm not going to bother responding to the last part of the post as it really is just more mudslinging that has been repeatedly dealt with in this thread.



ETA: Actually I will add one more thing. If these two were really out to get Assange, I suspect that they would have done a far better job. Instead of saying that he held her down AA could have come up with a far better attempted rape story I am sure by just embellishing the statement she gave a little more. Adding in how she told him she wanted him to use a condom and he refused and tried to push her legs apart anyway saying he wasn't going to use one, and that it was only after she got out from under him and he convinced her he was sorry and would use one that they had sex. For SW she could have stated that on waking and finding he wasn't using one she told him to get off and he refused and held her down to finish. These stories would have been very easy to concoct and use, not that far from what they did tell so as to be seen as suspicious, but would have been far, far stronger as accusations. The fact they didn't make them stronger is to me one of the major signals that the tales are true.
 
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