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Julian Assange: rapist or not?

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Statements you disagree with? Check.

Blowhard windbag screeching hatred? Nope.

No retraction. I believe your posts display an irrational hatred of Assange. Sue me.

*shrug*

Eh, no skin off my nose. I personally could care less what happens to Assange; his petty little drama doesn't intrude on my daily life to any great extent. I simply take issue with people assuming, without any evidence to support it, that the US is conducting some sort of witch hunt for the man, when it's fairly clear that he's imploding all on his own without any assistance on our part.
 
Just out of interest...

Is there anybody posting in this thread who thinks both

(a) that this impasse really is about Assange being wanted for questioning on sex charges Sweden, and has nothing to do with the Americans wanting him for his wikileaks activities.

AND

(b) that Assange was justified in publishing damaging US secrets - that he has done nothing wrong in that respect and does not need to be punished/silenced.

??

I suspect there are none. I suspect that every person who is claiming (a) also believes the opposite of (b). Funny, that.

You are fooling nobody.
 
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*shrug*

Eh, no skin off my nose. I personally could care less what happens to Assange; his petty little drama doesn't intrude on my daily life to any great extent. I simply take issue with people assuming, without any evidence to support it, that the US is conducting some sort of witch hunt for the man.

There have been calls from US politicians, pundits and public alike for Assange to be "dealt with." This includes the US government trying to figure out what crime to charge him with and TV pundits demanding that he be "illegally assassinated".

Given the previous record of the US, and what we know about wikileaks, it would be very surprising if the US wasn't doing everything its power to get their hands on him.
 
So, your reason for assuming, WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE AND IGNORING ALL THE EVIDENCE AGAINST IT PRESENTED IN THIS VERY THREAD, that the US is after Assange is because you're biased.

Thanks for clearing that up, UE.

You do not threaten to storm an embassy to get hold of a man wanted for questioning about obscure and minor sex charges, especially if the evidence to support them is very flimsy.

And if the person in question also just happens to be the publisher of the most damaging leaked material in US history, then the only rational conclusion one can arrive at is that this is the real reason for threatening to storm the embassy.

The rest is bovine faeces.
 
Just out of interest...

Is there anybody posting in this thread who thinks both

(a) that this impasse really is about Assange being wanted for questioning on sex charges Sweden, and has nothing to do with the Americans wanting him for his wikileaks activities.
I'll start with a yes - I do really think that the evidence and facts show that the case against JA in Sweden is real. (this does not mean that I think he's definitely guilty - it means that I think due process is the way forward).

For the other part, that this is only about that - no, JA himself has done everything he can to involve Wikileaks in this.
(b) that Assange was justified in publishing damaging US secrets - that he has done nothing wrong in that respect and does not need to be punished/silenced.
I do not agree with the idea that everything should be available to everybody, I think there are legitimate reasons for states as well as individuals to have part of their works/information kept secret.

I do however think that whistle-blowing is important to identify situations where laws are broken, and in fact I live in a country that has laws to protect whistle-blowers- laws I find important.

I have not seen a good legal analysis that has shown that JA has committed a crime against US law, and as such he should not be punished. I'm willing to learn if someone can provide me with a link - this is not something I have researched in depth.

So that would then be a yes to your second question.

I suspect there are none. I suspect that every person who is claiming (a) also believes the opposite of (b). Funny, that.
So, now that it turned out that you were wrong, what happens?
 
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Just out of interest...

Is there anybody posting in this thread who thinks both

(a) that this impasse really is about Assange being wanted for questioning on sex charges Sweden, and has nothing to do with the Americans wanting him for his wikileaks activities.

AND

(b) that Assange was justified in publishing damaging US secrets - that he has done nothing wrong in that respect and does not need to be punished/silenced.

??

I suspect there are none. I suspect that every person who is claiming (a) also believes the opposite of (b). Funny, that.

You are fooling nobody.

Actually, I am pretty close to that position. Except that for 'b' I believe he did a foolish thing, and he did not think the whole thing through fully. Some information must be kept secret for the protection of other individuals. The guy is a dick in that regard and he deserves any legitimate consequences that come his way - same as anyone, and he should man up to his mistakes (on both).
 
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There have been calls from US politicians, pundits and public alike for Assange to be "dealt with." This includes the US government trying to figure out what crime to charge him with and TV pundits demanding that he be "illegally assassinated".

Given the previous record of the US, and what we know about wikileaks, it would be very surprising if the US wasn't doing everything its power to get their hands on him.

As I've posted before, UE, if you had bothered to actually READ the thread, there is no indication that any entity in the US is doing anything beyond keeping an eye on the situation. The US Department of Justice is only investigating Wikileaks in connection with other cases they're working on, and they have given no indication that they would like to prosecute Assange. And of note is the fact that, while "US politicians, pundits, and public alike" have given calls for Assange to be "dealt with", the US is highly aware of its standing in the international community, given the mistakes of the past several years, and very likely does not want to actively pursue some sort of witch hunt against Assange. IANAL, but right now the best we could charge Assange with is being an accessory to a crime. The actual perpetrator of the whole Wikileaks fiasco is Bradley Manning. HE violated US and military law by providing classified information to a person neither cleared for nor authorized to view the information. All Assange did was receive the documentation.

And while there may be politicians calling for his head, those politicians still have to answer to the SCOTUS as to exactly what they would like to charge him with. The POTUS has given no indication that he wishes to pursue Assange, and statements from the White House have basically said that Assange's wrongdoings were in another country and are therefore none of our business. Pundits and the public have little or no control over the US Department of Justice either. I would also note that there is by no means a majority of Americans who wish to see Assange prosecuted, unless you can provide proof of such. One cannot point to the screams of a few individuals and extrapolate that the entirety of a country feels the same as they do.

Of note in that regard: A 2010 poll given by the Washington Times asking whether the US should prosecute Assange would seem to indicate that the majority of the US does NOT in fact feel Assange should be prosecuted. See here. 50% feel he is providing a necessary public service, while only 37% feel he should be prosecuted. 13% would like to reserve judgment until any investigation is completed. I cannot find a single poll that indicates a majority of Americans feel he should be charged with anything.

Perhaps what you are failing to realize, UE, is that the US CAN in fact learn from its mistakes, and while we cannot silence the calls of a few blowhards (that whole Free Speech thing) who may believe Assange should be shot at the stake, we can thankfully ignore them in favor of approaching this issue in the manner it should be approached. I wouldn't deny that the US would certainly like to prosecute SOMEBODY in the Wikileaks case, but they are at least waiting for EVIDENCE before rushing in. The benefit of having a well-educated, calm, rational man at the helm, in my opinion; the US is trying to show that we are trying to avoid knee-jerk reactions in favor of actually learning the truth, whatever it may be. And right now, the truth is we have no legitimate reason to charge Assange with anything. His only concerns with the law right now are in Sweden, not the US, despite his posturing otherwise.
 
Wildcat,

I have been consistently "anti-American", if that is what you mean. My beliefs and attitudes towards the United States go back a long way, and run very deep. It started in my teens (I'm 43), primarily because of two things: the anti-scientific/pseudo-scientific nonsense of the US religious right, and the anti-scientific political response to climate change. Since then, all I've found is other reasons to dislike the United States.
Well that's certainly a good reason to cheer the death of thousands of people who have nothing to do with those positions you hate. How much sway do you think the religious right has in NYC?

And just to be clear, you have no problem with a non-judicial death penalty for not just those whose opinions you disagree, but anyone who just happens to live in the same country as them, correct?

I'm not alone. A significant proportion of the world's population don't exactly like America.

Had I been in Assange's position (having come into the possession of that material) then I would have done exactly the same thing: publish all of it.
By your own logic the US has the right to kill Assange, without so much as a trial or even charges. Or even to just start killing random Australians.
 
Just out of interest...

Is there anybody posting in this thread who thinks both

(a) that this impasse really is about Assange being wanted for questioning on sex charges Sweden, and has nothing to do with the Americans wanting him for his wikileaks activities.
Yes, it is all about Assange running away from rape charges. The rest is just noise.

AND

(b) that Assange was justified in publishing damaging US secrets - that he has done nothing wrong in that respect and does not need to be punished/silenced.

??

I suspect there are none. I suspect that every person who is claiming (a) also believes the opposite of (b). Funny, that.

You are fooling nobody.
Sure, Assange can publish. So can the New York Times, in fact they did publish much of the juicier bits. So did YouTube for that matter.

Hell, much of what wikileaks released was already reported by the NYT years before Assange even started wikileaks.

I expect Assange to get charged by the US at the same time the editors of the NYT get charged, never. But that won't stop him from using that as an excuse to avoid the rape charges.

Manning will rot in prison for the rest of his miserable life, and that's as it should be. He, after all, is the actual leaker.
 
Just out of interest...

Is there anybody posting in this thread who thinks both

(a) that this impasse really is about Assange being wanted for questioning on sex charges Sweden, and has nothing to do with the Americans wanting him for his wikileaks activities.

AND

(b) that Assange was justified in publishing damaging US secrets - that he has done nothing wrong in that respect and does not need to be punished/silenced.

??

I suspect there are none. I suspect that every person who is claiming (a) also believes the opposite of (b). Funny, that.

You are fooling nobody.

Uh, there's me, at least. *shrugs* Wikileaks hasn't done anything that newspapers haven't been doing for ages, and as far as I can tell, their publication of the Iraq files and the diplomatic cables doesn't appear to have broken any laws either. Sure, the leak might have hurt US interests, but, eh, I'm not particularly invested in US interests -- they often conflict with mine.

Then there's the issue of the charges against Assange in Sweden. There's no evidence of any kind that the USA has applied any form of pressure on this matter, nor does Sweden's interests coincide with the USA's in this case and the Swedish legal system has both low levels of corruption (one of the best in the world in that regard) and is well isolated from political pressure both formally and in practice.

The idea that the legal proceedings against Assange in Sweden has somehow come about due to political pressure from the USA are simply far fetched and remarkably naïve in a weird, paranoid way.
 
Just out of interest...

Is there anybody posting in this thread who thinks both

(a) that this impasse really is about Assange being wanted for questioning on sex charges Sweden, and has nothing to do with the Americans wanting him for his wikileaks activities.

AND

(b) that Assange was justified in publishing damaging US secrets - that he has done nothing wrong in that respect and does not need to be punished/silenced.

??

I suspect there are none. I suspect that every person who is claiming (a) also believes the opposite of (b). Funny, that.

You are fooling nobody.

Infact, (a) and (b) more or less sum up my feelings perfectly.
 
As I've posted before, UE, if you had bothered to actually READ the thread, there is no indication that any entity in the US is doing anything beyond keeping an eye on the situation.

Rubbish.

You do not threaten to storm an embassy to get hold of a person who is wanted for questioning about relatively minor sex offences.

You may well threaten to do so to get hold of a person who has published a large amount of damaging, leaked material.


It does not matter how much propaganda you attempt to use to obscure the above facts, they will remain facts.
 
Rubbish.

You do not threaten to storm an embassy to get hold of a person who is wanted for questioning about relatively minor sex offences.

You may well threaten to do so to get hold of a person who has published a large amount of damaging, leaked material.


It does not matter how much propaganda you attempt to use to obscure the above facts, they will remain facts.

Nonsense. They're assumptions and assumptions based on subjective interpretations at that. (How you manage to interpret a rape charge as "relatively minor sex offense" eludes me, though.)
 
Rubbish.

You do not threaten to storm an embassy to get hold of a person who is wanted for questioning about relatively minor sex offences.
But you can kill thousands of innocent people because you disagre with some of their countrymen on questions of science and religion, correct?
 
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Rubbish.

You do not threaten to storm an embassy to get hold of a person who is wanted for questioning about relatively minor sex offences.

You may well threaten to do so to get hold of a person who has published a large amount of damaging, leaked material.


It does not matter how much propaganda you attempt to use to obscure the above facts, they will remain facts.

Please provide evidence that any involved party has threatened to "storm an embassy."
 
Please provide evidence that any involved party has threatened to "storm an embassy."

Eh? The Ecuadorians have spent several weeks making a large song and dance about this threat, and the UK government has now "withdrawn" it. It is also an established fact that the British place were swarming up the internal fire escape at one point, apparently preparing to raid the embassy.

I don't think there is any serious doubt that the threat was made. The UK government told the Ecuadorians (privately) that because of a change in the law that was made after the murder of a British police officer by a shot fired from within the Libyan embassy, they were technically capable of storming the embassy. The Ecuadorians responded by telling the world that this threat had been made, and appealing to the rest of Latin America to support them. And most of it did.
 
Nonsense. They're assumptions and assumptions based on subjective interpretations at that. (How you manage to interpret a rape charge as "relatively minor sex offense" eludes me, though.)

These (non-existent) charges debase the term "rape."
 
What exactly are you getting at?

It is an attempted character assassination. He's telling people that ten years ago I said some rather anti-American things in response to WTC attacks. I've been saying anti-American things before and since also. I'm not entirely sure what this has to do with my comments in this thread about the Julian Assange case. He's just making sure that everybody knows that UE doesn't like the US very much.
 
OK, I see where this is going. If these are the allegations, then they will come down to one person's word against another person's word. No evidence is possible to prove what happened, and the case should be dropped.

If you're going to accuse somebody of rape, you require some sort of evidence. In this case, we know for a fact that the woman in question took the "rapist" in question to a party the next evening, and recommended her friend to have sex with him. Now we are supposed to believe the same person when she makes an allegation of rape?? If we are fools, we will believe her.

It's nice to see that you have actually looked at the material prepared by the police for the investigation.

You have done that, haven't you? I mean, you have made a judgment, so surely you have looked long and hard at all the evidence?
 
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