HPV Vaccine Poll

[Tomtomkent]

Do you know that the lemming approach of dealing with unbridled authority is the chickens way out?

Yeah! Lemmings. All believing in gravity and thinking you need to drink water to live just because everybody else does! No way you could all have reached the same judgement based on objective evidence.

 

[jaydeehess]

Its striking that Clayton posted the poll results only 3 hours after beginning the poll.

Hell. I did not even see the poll until now. So what do we see over two days later?

Yes. Every girl and boy should be vaccinated._________60____86.96%
Yes. Every girl should be vaccinated. _________________8____11.59%
Yes, even though I have some reservations. ________________0 0%
No. I'm worried about possible side effects._____________1 ___1.45%
No. I have moral objections to it.__________________________0 0%
No, but for reasons other than those provided.______________0 0%
Voters: 69.

Clayton is still the only person scared to let anyone get this vaccine

 

[jaydeehess]

BTW, the HPV vaccine does offer protection against genital warts (in boys) associated with HPV and may offer protection (undetermined) against anal and penile cancers.

It will however aid in stopping the spread to females and thus contribute to the prevention of cervical cancer.

 

[LSSBB]

BTW, the HPV vaccine does offer protection against genital warts (in boys) associated with HPV and may offer protection (undetermined) against anal and penile cancers.

It will however aid in stopping the spread to females and thus contribute to the prevention of cervical cancer.

I thought prevention of oral cancer in boys was the big worry.

 

[Horatius]

A smart person who was anti-vax looking at those poll results would conclude that their current strategy is convincing no one and they need to be more persuasive. CM just calls everyone who doesn't agree with him lemmings and chickens, yeah that'll rally everyone to the cause...

It wouldn't be the first time someone like CM didn't really get the notion of how to convince people. I posted this a few years back to another Holocaust denier type:

You know, I think your inability to understand history is matched only by your inability to understand what it is you're doing here at JREF. Do you know what that is?


You're advertising.

You're trying to promote your beliefs (Holocaust denial) in the marketplace of ideas. We here are the potential consumers of those ideas, whom you wish to attract to your product.

Now, we skeptics here at JREF are a desirable consumer base in the marketplace of ideas. We are well-known for being smart shoppers, not easily swayed by the nonsense of the day. As such, purveyors of ideas come to us from all over, knowing that if they can convince us, they can convince almost anyone to believe as they do. Thus, we have people who believe in UFOs, Bigfoot, God, Angels, homeopathy, 9/11 Truth, and a thousand other ideas vying for our attention.

Now remember, you came to us. We did not go looking for your favourite forum to start a discussion of your videos, you came to our forum. If you want to compete against those others for our attention, you must give us something more than they do. I can go to any forum on this site, and find some earnest idea-pusher eager to engage me, and convince me to join them in their beliefs. Why should I engage with you, rather than any one of them?

Your posts here are your advertisements, and they are all you have to draw us in. Despite that, though, right from the very start, you have consistently refused to give us the information that we, as smart shoppers, have learned is needed to make any engagement with you worthwhile. We've shown you reports on your beliefs that indicate they are seriously flawed, which you have made no effort to rebut. It's as if a car salesman were to simply wave away a Consumers Report article that indicated the car he was selling was a fire hazard. Rejecting such a report out of hand may be easy, but it won't sell a car, will it?


You're competing in the marketplace of ideas. If you're incapable of expressing those ideas in a form that attracts our attention, then you'll surely lose.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5021659#post5021659


Far too many of these guys, truthers, deniers, or just assorted woos, seem more keen on scoring "gotcha" points than in actually doing anything to advance the acceptance of their professed beliefs. One must wonder at the psychology of such a person.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Far too many of these guys, truthers, deniers, or just assorted woos, seem more keen on scoring "gotcha" points than in actually doing anything to advance the acceptance of their professed beliefs. One must wonder at the psychology of such a person.

They believe that if they can outsmart you on even a single point, then they're smarter than you. And by being smarter than you, the things they say are more correct than the things you say.

They try so very hard to "prove" that they are smarter than you, because they are, for whatever reason, completely incapable of proving that their information is more accurate.

 

[BrianH]

They believe that if they can outsmart you on even a single point, then they're smarter than you. And by being smarter than you, the things they say are more correct than the things you say.

They try so very hard to "prove" that they are smarter than you, because they are, for whatever reason, completely incapable of proving that their information is more accurate.

Of course! The truth is always determined by debate; if that fails, trial by combat.

 

[000063]

1. Mixed metaphor! Lemmings don't chicken out. As it turns out, they don' t even commit mass suicide as once believed.

2. Let me get this right- the complete absence of support for your position in this poll so far is evidence- in favor of your position? You only began the poll to prove to us what lemmings we were? If everyone supported the existence of gravity in a poll, would that be a sign of unquestioning acceptance of authority?

He's not the first CT to do this either. One once said debunkers were wrong, but refused to prove it when asked, because it would run counter to her goals of proving debunkers wrong.

Much like Clay, her primary tool is an entirely unwarranted smugness.

A smart person who was anti-vax looking at those poll results would conclude that their current strategy is convincing no one and they need to be more persuasive. CM just calls everyone who doesn't agree with him lemmings and chickens, yeah that'll rally everyone to the cause...

Almost as if he doesn't actually care about whether he's convincing people!

Almost all of Clayton's posts are filled with outrage and untouched by introspection. As a result he continuously undermines his own position: citing links that actually say the opposite of what he thought, refusing to learn more about (in this thread) immunology and basic biology, failing to reply to reasonable questions (such as if there are any vaccines he views as safe), ignoring pages of responses to his own questions, and often resorting to completely unsupported proclamations (or laughing dogs) when asked for evidence. I suspect Clayton really believed this poll would support him when he began it- now he is even more outraged.

Co-signed. Funny thing is, he tried this with the Holocaust Denial poll. He started another one that was anonymous, because he felt being able to see who voted what was unfair pressure, and got basically the exact same results, then ran away from the thread.

 

[Belz...]

Do you know that the lemming approach of dealing with unbridled authority is the chickens way out?

Do you know that appeals to emotion are the irrational way out ?

 

[jdc324]

There's a nice graphical summary of the evidence here: http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/2011/is-the-hpv-vaccine-safe-v-2-0/

Clayton doesn't seem to have responded to this. That's a shame, as I thought he might find it interesting.

35 million doses of Gardasil distributed in the US. 0.1% of people had mild side-effects and no deaths were linked to the vaccine.

The Lu et al study found that side effects and deaths were no more likely in the HPV vaccine group than in the placebo group. None of the deaths in either group were linked to the vaccine.

Potential lives saved per year if 80% of girls aged 12-13 vaccinated: 2500 in the US (480 UK, 159700 worldwide).

 

[jaydeehess]

I thought prevention of oral cancer in boys was the big worry.

yes, missed that one, thx

 

[Clayton Moore]

Clayton doesn't seem to have responded to this. That's a shame, as I thought he might find it interesting.

35 million doses of Gardasil distributed in the US. 0.1% of people had mild side-effects and no deaths were linked to the vaccine.

The Lu et al study found that side effects and deaths were no more likely in the HPV vaccine group than in the placebo group. None of the deaths in either group were linked to the vaccine.

Potential lives saved per year if 80% of girls aged 12-13 vaccinated: 2500 in the US (480 UK, 159700 worldwide).

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/01/24/hpv-vaccine-victim-sues-merck.aspx

The documents obtained from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) detail 26 new deaths reported to the government following HPV vaccination between September 1, 2010 and September 15, 2011. That's 26 reported deaths of young, previously healthy, girls after Gardasil vaccination in just one year.

Other serious side effects reported during that time frame included:

Seizures Paralysis Blindness Pancreatitis
Speech problems Short term memory loss Guillain-Barre syndrome Ovarian cysts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UHy-EkK2xo&feature=player_embedded#!

Good luck with Gardasil.

 

[jaydeehess]

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/01/24/hpv-vaccine-victim-sues-merck.aspx


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UHy-EkK2xo&feature=player_embedded#!

Good luck with Gardasil.

might you have a link to the FDA report(s) this claim is based on?

 

[Clayton Moore]

might you have a link to the FDA report(s) this claim is based on?

The FDA diming on an FDA approved drug?

You think the girl is lying?

 

[jaydeehess]

The FDA diming on an FDA approved drug?

The FDA report linking 26 deaths in one year to HPV vaccine

You think the girl is lying?

as has been explained to you many times, what a teen says she thinks caused her problems is quite irrellevant as she has no training or education that allows for a competant diagnoses.

 

[carlitos]

The FDA report linking 26 deaths in one year to HPV vaccine


as has been explained to you many times, what a teen says she thinks caused her problems is quite irrellevant as she has no training or education that allows for a competant diagnoses.

There are some actual reports linked at the bottom of this pager, which is linked from the Mercola page.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-...sil-records-detailing-26-new-reported-deaths/

 

[Horatius]

Good luck with Gardasil.

So we'll just add "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc" to the list of things you don't understand.

 

[Skeptic Guy]

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/01/24/hpv-vaccine-victim-sues-merck.aspx


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UHy-EkK2xo&feature=player_embedded#!

Good luck with Gardasil.

Quoting Mercola and Youtube to support your position is a "fail" from the start. Neither of them are reputable for medical advice.

 

[jdc324]

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/01/24/hpv-vaccine-victim-sues-merck.aspx


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UHy-EkK2xo&feature=player_embedded#!

Good luck with Gardasil.

Mercola links to Judicial Watch, who claim that there were "16 new deaths (including four suicides)" and he (Mercola) says that the total stands at 26. He's including deaths from suicide in the list of deaths associated with vaccination.

Please re-read (or read for the first time) the Info is Beautiful page which points out that none of the deaths following Gardasil were actually linked to the vaccine and that in trials, people died in both groups (HPV vaccine and placebo) in roughly equal numbers - deaths included suicides and traffic accidents. How exactly do you think Gardasil is causing suicides and car accidents? How do you think that the placebo used in trials is causing suicides and car accidents?

Judicial Watch links to a PDF of VAERS data. Look at the IiB page. See the bit about VAERS not being able to track cause and effect? You might want to make a note of that...

Here's what the FDA say about deaths and Gardasil: http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/ucm179549.htm

Concerns have been raised about reports of deaths occurring in individuals after receiving Gardasil. As of December 31, 2008, 32 deaths had been reported to VAERS. There was not a common pattern to the deaths that would suggest they were caused by the vaccine. In the majority of cases with available autopsy, death certificate and medical records, the cause of death was explained by factors other than the vaccine.

 

[twinstead]

I'm not participating until there is a Planet X option