Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

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elbe said:
Personally, I'm taking it as conceit by people like Robert that they can't defeat Obama legitimately in November so they'll resort to trying, in vain, to undermine his presidency.
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Oooh, I like that one.

OK, I am half doing it for the larfs and half doing it for elbe's reason.
 
JayUtah said:
Yes, I have taken it seriously up to this point. Which is to say, I have followed the arguments on both sides and contributed where I felt it was relevant. One can disbelieve the claims of the other side and have good reasons for considering their opinions to be foolishly founded, but at the same time conduct a discussion with appropriate decorum and honesty. However our present pro-Birther contributor has a long history on this forum, and prefers to debate in a manner that bodes ill for serious consideration.
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Indeed.

We passed the signpost that said foolishly founded quite some time ago. In fact, I think that was well before our distinguished colleague threw out a poisoning-the-well accusation after previously describing the Democrats as demonic and pure evil. Pure evil. Not an amalgam of evil and incompetence. Or evil and willful ignorance. Not 99 and 44/00 percent evil. Pure evil.
 
This thread is a train wreck I cannot look away from ...

It reminds me of the "glory days" of the 9/11 CT forum, every time we resolve the arguments a new CT enters and starts from the beginning with the exact same links, debunked evidence and retarded arguments.
 
Alareth said:
This thread is a train wreck I cannot look away from ...

It reminds me of the "glory days" of the 9/11 CT forum, every time we resolve the arguments a new CT enters and starts from the beginning with the exact same links, debunked evidence and retarded arguments.
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Reminds me of the old joke about prison inmates who have been together so long they don't need to bother telling whole jokes anymore, they can just shout out the number.
 
I don't expect this thread to be just us regulars sitting around talking about why the birther cases always fail, and why they are wrong. The problem is I hate seeing the formula of debunked birther claim> link to debunking> "baloney".

Simply put I want new out of this thread, and like the 9/11 stuff it comes down to the whole not willing to try something new. Atleast we can say that the newest entries are not satirical in any sense.
 
fullflavormenthol said:
Oh, and finally she ignores...
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I'd argue that Zebest's finality, aside from her dismal failure in a courtroom Robert has yet to name, is instaed in her subsequent decision to apply her newly-minted photo analysis "skills" to the famous war-room photo of the President. Since I covered it elsewhere at length and it's only marginally on-topic here, I won't go into great details. Suffice to say she revealed both her bias and her incompetence in spades.

She really fired off quite a few howlers in that one. But it's obvious that she has zero training or experience in the forensic analysis of photographic material. Yes, this is relevant; the Birthers place a great deal of faith in her analysis of the PDF -- irrelevant as it is to the final act of certifying Obama eligible. Her alleged analytical skill is all that attributes various "anomalies" inexorably to the hypothesis of an Adobe-fueled forgery. All examples of such skill (or the lack thereof) are relevant, because they raise the possibility that the "anomalies" are due instead to specific things Zebest doesn't know about.

...keeps posting without actually responding to counter arguments.
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Technically lunchmeat is a response. Just not a relevant one.
 
JayUtah said:
I'd argue that Zebest's finality, aside from her dismal failure in a courtroom Robert has yet to name, is instaed in her subsequent decision to apply her newly-minted photo analysis "skills" to the famous war-room photo of the President. Since I covered it elsewhere at length and it's only marginally on-topic here, I won't go into great details. Suffice to say she revealed both her bias and her incompetence in spades.

She really fired off quite a few howlers in that one. But it's obvious that she has zero training or experience in the forensic analysis of photographic material. Yes, this is relevant; the Birthers place a great deal of faith in her analysis of the PDF -- irrelevant as it is to the final act of certifying Obama eligible. Her alleged analytical skill is all that attributes various "anomalies" inexorably to the hypothesis of an Adobe-fueled forgery. All examples of such skill (or the lack thereof) are relevant, because they raise the possibility that the "anomalies" are due instead to specific things Zebest doesn't know about.

Technically lunchmeat is a response. Just not a relevant one.
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Typical Jay Utah response. He can't argue the substance of the evidence, so he ad hominems the messenger. Predictable.
 
fullflavormenthol said:
The whole OCR argument is effectively a strawman used by Zebest in order to ignore several points, 1.) the document was scanned in Apple QuartzPDF, not Adobe. 2.) the anamolies being pointed out are easily explained by the Apple QuartzPDF algorithm, which shows "layers" that would make no sense for a person to compile. 3.) the PDF that she presented as evidence is one she her self has effectively created using Adobe CS5.

Oh, and finally she ignores that Hawaii confirms the existence of the vital information, and certifies the certificate meaning the Full Faith and Credit Clause trumps the wackiness of the ol' Shuriff. And given that I don't wish to re argue the entire existing thread I will simply ignore the person that keeps posting without actually responding to counter arguments.
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Lofty pronouncements from officials is not proof. And Truth will not be deterred by hiding behind the Full Faith and Credit clause. The layers betrayed in the document in question are far too specific as to what is or is not in a particular layer such as dates, signatures, stamps, lines, background to to be the happenstance of the program.
 
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JayUtah said:
Yes, I have taken it seriously up to this point. Which is to say, I have followed the arguments on both sides and contributed where I felt it was relevant. One can disbelieve the claims of the other side and have good reasons for considering their opinions to be foolishly founded, but at the same time conduct a discussion with appropriate decorum and honesty. However our present pro-Birther contributor has a long history on this forum, and prefers to debate in a manner that bodes ill for serious consideration.
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Yeah, like discussing the evidence, unlike others who prefer to dwell on attacking the messenger.
 
JayUtah said:
None. That's the point. The Birthers have so often shifted the goalposts that they don't realize when they've shifted them right off the playing field.

At first they questioned the authenticity of the digest birth certificate. Forgery! they cried. Then they questioned the authenticity of the long-form birth certificate. Again, Forgery! That alone is hilarious, as they wrongly believed the paper circulated at the White House press conference was simply a printout of the PDF. Therefore they did (and still do) expend exhaustive effort trying to impeach the PDF even though it has no bearing on Obama's eligibility.

But now that evidence shows the press and others saw an actual certified paper copy, and now that Hawaiian officials have certified the material details contained in the paper copy and in the PDF, the Birthers are shifting the goalposts again to focus on the original paper record, which they now say must be a forgery.
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"The press and others was an actual certified copy????" I only know of one person who claims to have seen and handled an actual certified copy and that copy, whoever may have seen it and handled it could not possibly have been a copy of the same document presented as a copy of the original. The amateurs involved in this hoax forgot how to spell the word 'Hawaii." Correctly spelled in the WH PDF, but not so in the alleged paper copy. For the record, Hawaii is not spelled Huwaii.[/B ]But nice try.

http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/06/savannah-guthrie-busted-again-hawaii.html
 
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JayUtah said:
The latest press conference simply reiterates the same charges made three years ago, that have been discussed at length here, discussed elsewhere at length by qualified experts (no, Zebest isn't one), and tried in court with disastrous outcomes for Birthers.

You refuse to read this thread, so you are not an authority on what rebuttals it does and does not contain. Your refusal, however, does indicate a futility in attempting to engage you, since you've thereby basically predetermined not to read or respond to rebuttals. Therefore the question remains valid: why should anyone engage you here?
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Thus far, there is nothing in this thread that refutes the evidence presented in Sheriff Joe's July 27 press conference. You criticize me for not slogging through 129 pages of previous brainwash on this board, but I doubt if you or anyone else has actually heard the entire July 27 press conference. What has happened before posted on this board is irrelevant to me and everyone else because prior to Sheriff Joe's involvement, there was no investigation by law enforcement. Also, prior to Sheriff' Joe's July 27 Press Conference, I was not a believer in the the Birth Certificate fraud, but squarely on the fence. Now perhaps you could for once leave your Ad Hominems aside, and try to discuss the evidence. That would be something new.
 
From what I have seen on this thread there has been stacks of evidenc presented to you which you have either ignored or not bother to ready.

The sheriff you keep mentioning has found exactly nothing
 
elbe said:
Personally, I'm taking it as conceit by people like Robert that they can't defeat Obama legitimately in November so they'll resort to trying, in vain, to undermine his presidency.
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There is no way the birther issue is going to have any relevance to The Anointed One's re-election. Even the GOP base is largely brainwashed. But my interest is exposing this monumental fraud of a Presidential Imposter. It has been said that the assassination of JFK was the Crime of the Century -- the 20th Century. But this unprecedented fraud has to rank as The Crime of the 21st.
 
fullflavormenthol said:
The whole OCR argument is effectively a strawman used by Zebest in order to ignore several points, 1.) the document was scanned in Apple QuartzPDF, not Adobe. 2.) the anamolies being pointed out are easily explained by the Apple QuartzPDF algorithm, which shows "layers" that would make no sense for a person to compile. 3.) the PDF that she presented as evidence is one she her self has effectively created using Adobe CS5.

Oh, and finally she ignores that Hawaii confirms the existence of the vital information, and certifies the certificate meaning the Full Faith and Credit Clause trumps the wackiness of the ol' Shuriff. And given that I don't wish to re argue the entire existing thread I will simply ignore the person that keeps posting without actually responding to counter arguments.
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For example.....?????
 
its all over this thread your tin pot sheriff has been throughly debunked you just do not want to accept it.
 
Robert Prey said:
How utterly predictable you guys are. You can't even cite a single point, so you throw up your hands, and retreat. Game, Set, Match.
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Hold on there, dude. First you have to show evidence that your pet pig in Maricopa County has better credentials than any of the government officials to analyse documents.
 
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