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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

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Israel and unconditional loyalty

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4040112.html
Last week, Israel's far-right foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman visited the UK. His visit was protested by progressive Zionists. Yet he responded with a remarkable declaration:

My expectation from all Jewish communities around the world is that they support any Israeli government. It doesn't matter if you have a left government or a right government.

Jews are to support the Israeli government: any government. Doesn't matter what it does, what policies it pursues. Jews should support it.

Former national chairperson of the Australasian Union of Jewish Students and past chairperson of the Australian Zionist Youth Council, Liam Getreu, described this as a "dangerous brand of Zionism".

The episode, I think, illustrated serious issues facing the world's diaspora Jewish communities. To what will we be loyal? Universal principles of justice, human rights and equality? Or unthinking, tribal loyalty to the Israel government, regardless of who is in it, and what it does?

These issues have become a matter of great urgency. In October 2010, I wrote an article about the corruption the occupation caused within Green Line Israel. I warned about "an overflowing tide of chauvinist nationalism". I wrote that Israel's "colonial rule is corroding its society".

A startling, and horrifying, illustration of this trend occurred last week.

The Israeli government is made up of a coalition of parties, including Likud, Kadima and Shas. Likud is the party of the prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu.

On May 23, a demonstration was "organised mostly by Likud activists", according to progressive Israeli journalist Haggai Matar. As reported in Ha'aretz, over a thousand of them gathered "in south Tel Aviv, calling on Israeli authorities to expel illegal migrants".

"Illegal migrants" is how the liberal Ha'aretz describes African asylum seekers in Israel. There are about 60,000 in Israel, according to the Israeli government.

Likud and Kadima speakers were among those who addressed the crowd. Likud member of Knesset Danny Danon declared:

We must expel the infiltrators from Israel. We should not be afraid to say the words 'expulsion now'.

Another Likud MK, Miri Regev, said, "The Sudanese were a cancer in our body."
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a_unique_person said:
Israel and unconditional loyalty

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4040112.html
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Here is another article about that same speech.

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/68025/be-loyal-israel-pleads-foreign-minister-lieberman

And from that article:

Speaking at an event hosted by the Jewish National Fund in London on Tuesday evening, Mr Lieberman said that Jews who organised a petition against his visit were a legitimate part of the debate about the future of Israel.

However, he said that it was his personal view that Jews around the world should be loyal to the Israeli government. “My expectation from all Jewish communities around the world is that they support any Israeli government. It doesn’t matter if you have a left government or a right government.”
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Emphasis mine.

So it's unclear what "support any Israeli government" means because apparently it doesn't mean to refrain from criticizing it.

Oh wait, maybe this next paragraph offers some context that helps resolve this apparent dilemma.

In discussion with author and political commentator Douglas Murray at the Pillar Hotel in Hendon, Mr Lieberman said Israel suffered from the plethora of mass media outlets ranged against it. He said he had counted 16 Arab channels on his hotel television (“not counting the BBC”).
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Again, emphasis mine. I like the snarky humor of the "not counting the BBC" part. :)

So possibly what Lieberman means is that Jewish communities around the world should support the Israeli government against the "plethora of mass media outlets ranged against it" even as they voice their disagreement over individual policies. Very much in the same way I support President Obama against idiot birthers and conspiracy mongers who spread crazy stories against him, even though I didn't vote for him and disagree with many of his policies.

That would make sense, correct?
 
So the latest terrorist attack in Bulgaria hasn't been mentioned much in this forum. So i'll start it. Have to dig up the article where this is mentioned, but the latest was that a Dutch national female and her Iranian national husband were those who were the perpetrators of this terrorist attack.

Anybody have any more information? Would have to be quick since I'm going for reserve duty for a month next week in the south by Beersheva.
 
Jeezus freaking christ.

220 pages? Don't you people have anything substantive to do at all? If not, then why not go torture some cats or something? This obsessive Israel-demonizing in an obscure internet forum isn't hurting Israel.
 
Think this is a general thread because the mods are getting lazy. As for the current events, any comments?
 
bigjelmapro said:
So the latest terrorist attack in Bulgaria hasn't been mentioned much in this forum. So i'll start it. Have to dig up the article where this is mentioned, but the latest was that a Dutch national female and her Iranian national husband were those who were the perpetrators of this terrorist attack.

Anybody have any more information? Would have to be quick since I'm going for reserve duty for a month next week in the south by Beersheva.
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I think we're allowed to let this thread die, aren't we? We could try discussing the attack in Bulgaria in its own thread.
 
Won't it be fudged together with this thread eventually? If there isn't one started in the next day or two, I'll do it.....
 
Mycroft said:
I think we're allowed to let this thread die, aren't we?
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This thread was only necessary because of parky spamming the forum with 3 Israel threads a day. The need for this thread died with parky's banning.
 
Looks like Mitt Romney's been reading Virus as well as "historian" Paul Johnson:

"And as I come here and I look out over this city and consider the accomplishments of the people of this nation, I recognise the power of at least culture and a few other things," the presumptive Republican candidate told his audience. He cited a climate of innovation, the Jewish history of thriving in adversity and the "hand of providence".
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"Hand of Providence"? Isn't that the type of thing that Hitler would say?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/30/mitt-romney-israel-economic-success
 
Funny, this Israel-hating leftist disagrees with Romney about what's holding back the Palestinian economy, and how it can be improved:

We seek a peace in which they’ll be neither Israel’s subjects nor its citizens. They should enjoy a national life of dignity as a free, viable and independent people living in their own state. They should enjoy a prosperous economy, where their creativity and initiative can flourish.

Now, we’ve already seen the beginnings of what is possible. In the last two years, the Palestinians have begun to build a better life for themselves. By the way, Prime Minister Fayyad has led this effort on their part, and I — I wish him a speedy recovery from his recent operation.

We’ve helped — on our side, we’ve helped the Palestinian economic growth by removing hundreds of barriers and roadblocks to the free flow of goods and people, and the results have been nothing short of remarkable. The Palestinian economy is booming; it’s growing by more than 10 percent a year. And Palestinian cities — they look very different today than what they looked just a few years — a few years ago. They have shopping malls, movie theaters, restaurants, banks. They even have e-businesses, but you can’t see that when you visit them.
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I read in htis thread that Christians have not been anti semitc.

So it was not Orthodox CHristians orchestratting pogroms against the Orthosox Jews in Tsarist Russia?

So it was not Christians that drove ut and destroyed the jewish community of York in England inthe Middle Ages?

And htey are jsut a couple I can think of in five minutes
 
Dcdrac said:
I read in htis thread that Christians have not been anti semitc.
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You did? Where, got a link?

You didn't just make that up, did you?

And what do you think of the Holocaust-denying anti-semitic genocidal group that was elected to power in Gaza, Hamas? Are they reasonable people Israel can negotiate with?
 
Do not confuse Hamas wiht all the Plaitinaiana and do ascribe beleifs to me you do not know I have.

And yes there is a long hostory of HCristian anti smeitism and it is still around especially in Eastern Europe to this dya, to deny it is to fly in the face of known documented history
 
Dcdrac said:
Do not confuse Hamas wiht all the Plaitinaiana and do ascribe beleifs to me you do not know I have.

And yes there is a long hostory of HCristian anti smeitism and it is still around especially in Eastern Europe to this dya, to deny it is to fly in the face of known documented history
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No one has claimed this, as far as I'm aware.
 
It was Mulder

"No, I don't, because Christianity is not anti-semitic. Some people who are or claim(ed) to be nominal Christians were/are, but it is not a teaching of the Bible. Christians are taught that the Jewish people are the special people of God, chosen and protected by Him. Through the sacrifice of Jesus, non-Jews can be adopted into this "family" (for want of a better word) and become joint-heirs with the Jewish nation in all God's promises"

And to say Christinaity has not been anti semitc is a delusion.
 
Dcdrac said:
Do not confuse Hamas wiht all the Plaitinaiana
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Can I confuse them with the majority of Palestinians in Gaza who decided that they wanted a genocidal anti-semitic terrorist group as their government?

Dcdrac said:
and do ascribe beleifs to me you do not know I have.
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What beliuefs are those?

Dcdrac said:
And yes there is a long hostory of HCristian anti smeitism and it is still around especially in Eastern Europe to this dya, to deny it is to fly in the face of known documented history
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Who has denied this? You claimed there were people saying that in this very thread, did you just make that up?

Post a link, or retract your claim.
 
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