General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

[Nick Terry]

I'm noticing the complete lack of sources for Einsatzkommando Tunis and in the second:

which was to carry out a mass killing of Jews in British mandate of Palestine
was standing by in Athens and was ready to disembark
was to be led by SS Obersturmbannfuehrer Walther Rauff.

I'm starting to see that if the treshold of "evidence" with respect to Einsatzgruppen in North Africa is THIS LOW, I'm bound to lose any argument here.

Or perhaps you might decide not to cherrypick ancient posts in side-issue discussions which led to members posting Wiki links as a basic STARTING POINT to inform others about a subject.

If however you want to buy Mallmann and Cueppers' book on the subject and read their article and discuss that, then feel free to do so.

 

[Nick Terry]

Now that's quite a feat. 7000 statements? And he systematically analyzed every single one of them? Wow, must have taken some time.

No, you misread the post. Paulsson went through an (indexed) collection of 7,000 testimonies gathered in Poland after the war, and pulled out all the testimonies relating to survival in hiding in Warsaw. That number is still in the hundreds, though, and yes it would take some time. That's one of many reasons why Paulsson got a PhD for his efforts since it was a substantive piece of research, and certainly a more extensive piece of research than has been undertaken for many a PhD in other fields.

I thought there were not even near 7000 records, let alone statements as many of the listed survivors, including the majority of family groups, fled east into in Soviet Union in 1939 and probably not all of them returned to the US zone of occupation. Let alone it is guaranteed that each person has only one record.

It's beginning to become clear that whatever you think about the evidence for the Holocaust is probably wrong.

The Central Jewish Historical Commission in Poland gathered 7,000 testimonies, mostly in 1945, from surviving Jews in postwar Poland. Thus not every survivor gave a testimony since there were many more who had survived *in Poland* and those that had survived concentration camps in Germany tended to stay there. Another Historical Commission gathered those testimonies in Displaced Persons camps. Of course, other survivors gave testimonies direct to Allied war crimes investigation units, so the total number of survivors from Poland alone who wrote something down or had something written down is going to be over 10,000 for the 1940s alone.

There were at least 100,000 survivors among Polish Jews who survived Nazi camps or life in hiding under Nazi occupation. More survived having been deported by the Soviets and then could be repatriated, which adds another 100,000 or so in total.

But since there were more than 3.3 million Jews in Poland in 1939, the death toll was of the order of 3 million. Of those, nearly 1 million were shot where they lived, several 100s of 1000s died in ghettos and camps, and not more than 1.8 million were sent to the death camps.

 

[Nick Terry]

If there are supposedly 6 million dead, even taking multiple applications into account, how come there are at least 5 million claims for reparations from Israel? I do have to agree that Werner Laska is not exactly an unbiased source and I can not find a scan or something of the original letter.

If you care about your credibility then please don't quote the Journal of Historical Review from 20 years ago. The German government has been pretty open about the number of claims for compensation and has a brochure about it which you can read here. On page 49 you will find that claims under the BEG which are for compensation for loss of property were under 5 million through to the end of the 1980s, so your source is a lying denier scumbag.

And yes there were multiple claims per claimant, since the BEG covered property. Most of the claims were filed by German Jews and other German citizens who had been dispossessed from 1933 onwards. They had all been stripped of pensions, benefits, insurance policies, shares and stocks, and other property which each had to be claimed for separately.

On page 51 you see the number of pensions paid to Nazi victims as of the year 2000; a total of 89,000 pensions in all. That number has of course dropped since then, the latest figures for 2010 showed about 60,000 pensions being paid out. The entitlement to pensions is based on time spent in a concentration camp or other place of confinement; so the pensions are paid to all categories of victims not just Jews.

 

[Nick Terry]

Which is supposed to prove just about what? That he proposed to spare just about every single jew then living in the occupied territories as of 1942? Are you really bent on refuting revisionists?

Your reading comprehension is evidently not very good and nor is your grasp of historical context. Brack stated in mid-1942 that he thought of the 10 million Jews in Europe, 2-3 million ought to be spared for labour. That implies very directly that the others would die. 'am Leben erhalten' is the term he used, IIRC.

He was of course an over-optimistic Nazi who assumed that the summer offensive would probably bring total victory to the Nazis, thereby opening up the possibility to kill 7-8 million Jews. In actual fact the Nazis had already killed nearly 2 million Jews by June 1942. They went on to kill just over 5 million.

The numbers mentioned are not based on Brack's detailed census of the number of Jews in Nazi hands, they are an expression of his basic position on the Final Solution of the Jewish Question as a whole. The ultimate Nazi target was the entire Jewish population of Europe. They were still asking their Axis allies in the summer of 1942 to hand Jews over. They were still expecting to overrun the Caucasus and other parts of the Soviet Union with sizeable Jewish populations. They were still expecting one day to defeat Britain.
Brack's letter to Himmler indicates that in Brack's opinion, 20-30% of the Jewish population of Europe should be kept alive as workers, but they should be sterilised.

Under no circumstances can that letter be read as anything other than a discussion of genocide. Sterilising 2-3 million Jews and killing the rest means that the Jewish people would have died out in a generation ffs. As a statement of intent, it is quite chillingly clear. Your obfuscation attempts don't change that.

 

[triforcharity]

So were they "murdered" or did they die from starvation and overwork?

If you force people to work and then don't feed them, they will die.

This is called murder.

ETA: If doing that is not your definition of murder, what would YOU call it?

(Mods: I don't know what the rule is, but I believe that my addition is on topic, and well within the MA. Sorry if I am not allowed to edit in a modded thread.)

 

[Nick Terry]

The US locked up the Japanese and also let them do work in the camps. You seem not to take into account that at the end of the war, even the general German populace and in much of the occupied countries the food situation was not good, often no thanks to allied bombings. Had the food situation in the US also been bad, I suppose all the Japanese that died in those camps would have been murdered too right? THAT is the "logic" you use. They WERE locked up, often had to work, the food diet was no well balanced at any time but enough except at the end of the war. Is that "murder"? I don't think so.

As others have already pointed out, way to go, you just absolved Stalin of most of his crimes.

Anyone who takes prisoners has a duty of care to them. Failing to meet that duty of care, regardless of circumstances, is murder. The Nazis were presiding over camps in which very large numbers were dying long before 1945.

The Nazis just about managed to feed 7 million foreign workers through to the end of the war along with large numbers of POWs, but for some reason the 700,000 concentration camp prisoners died in disproportionate numbers. What might that reason be?

Face it, if the Nazis could organise the proper feeding of 10x the number of foreign workers, then appealing to "Allied bombing" doesn't fly at all.

 

[triforcharity]

No it doesn't, but since you have made a positive claim, please show your math.

I personally would love to see that math also. Heck, even gross estimates accounting for all the known variables would at least be a step in the right direction.

 

[Natan]

Or perhaps you might decide not to cherrypick ancient posts in side-issue discussions

Well, I am wading my way through the hundreds of posts - as I was challenged here to post in this thread if I feel I have something to contribute - but couldn't let that pass, since you seem so smug on historic sources.

If however you want to buy Mallmann and Cueppers' book on the subject and read their article and discuss that, then feel free to do so.

I won't buy it. Reports on what is supposedly in that book are not exactly encouraging:

Nazis planned Holocaust for pre-state Israel
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3237529,00.html

Seems it got stuck at planning alright if you read the article.

 

[Natan]

But since there were more than 3.3 million Jews in Poland in 1939, the death toll was of the order of 3 million. Of those, nearly 1 million were shot where they lived, several 100s of 1000s died in ghettos and camps, and not more than 1.8 million were sent to the death camps.

So, 300.000 surviving eh? How many fled ahead of the Nazis in 1939 to the USSR? I heard recently Germany is paying again for 80.000 "survivors" who have probably not even come near a Nazi. If someone had a handy applet with actuarial tables, I wonder how many those 80.000 would be in 1939. I bet it would be far larger than 300.000 (not insinuating all of them were Polish, but still).

 

[Natan]

Yes, if the US had done to the interned Japanese what the Nazis did to the Jews and engaged in a policy to deliberately starve and work them to death, that would also be murder. However, since they didn't do that, your counterfactual is rather moot, isn't it?

The starving to death was intentional, sure. You are aware that jews were by far not the only group in concentration camps, right?

 

[Natan]

No it doesn't, but since you have made a positive claim, please show your math.

Since you seem to think a body can be cremated in 15 minutes, why don't you show me a super duper high tech crema oven of today that can do just that? I won't even ask you to show me a 1945 one.

 

[Natan]

One of my colleagues is a pretty well known historian of WWII, and he's currently finishing a book about strategic bombing in WWII. He will be revising the numbers of bombing dead downwards in virtually every case, without partisanship for any one side. How? He will present real hard evidence. He won't simply sit back and cast doubt on the higher numbers. He will show that the official Soviet records indicate a few thousand civilians were killed in August 1942 in Stalingrad province, and not the 10s of 1000s who are frequently held to have died in one single air raid on the city by the Luftwaffe.

I am also doubting those bloated Soviet figures as well as those for "Holodomor" and a whole lot of other claims, like the hundreds of thousands of victims in Saddam's mass graves. But there happens to be only one special historical occurrence where it is deemed legally necessary to prevent people from revising the figure downward and no free cigar if you guess which event that is.

 

[Natan]

Stop the Gish Galloping. You're mixing up Auschwitz and the Aktion Reinhard camps in one gigantic ball of incredulity.

It's all part of the Holocaust, like it or not.

One isolated case, which is blown out of all proportion by deniers. The Polish government-in-exile drafted an indictment of Hans Frank on the basis of various wartime reports it had received. That corpus of reports actually specified gas chambers at Treblinka over and over and over again. All the other evidence at Nuremberg presented on Treblinka also specified gas chambers (namely a witness and the Soviets reading in part of the communist Polish government's investigative report into evidence).

Meh. Electrocution chambers anyone? Not in Treblinka admittedly. Also in a bath house though. Eastern European jews weren't exactly known for their good hygiene, this could explain all the horror involves showering.

I end my quotation here, and I call the attention of the Tribunal to Page 136 on the reverse side of the document book; this is from a report of the Polish Government, which shows that the Camp Sobibur was founded during the first and second liquidation of the Jewish ghetto. But the extermination on a large scale in this camp really started at the beginning of 1943. In this same report, in the last paragraph on Page 136 of the document book, we may read that Camp Belsen was founded in 1940; but it was in 1942 that the special electrical appliances were built in for mass extermination of people. Under the pretext that the people were being led to the

576

19 Feb. 46

bath-house, the doomed were undressed and then driven to the building where the floor was electrified in a special way; there they were killed.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/02-19-46.asp

The fact that an Allied organisation got something wrong rather militates, by the way, against the frequent claims of forgery, coercion and orchestration peddled by deniers.

Make that some things and don't try to deny that forgery, coercion and orchestration did NOT happen. Now THAT would be revisionism of a bad kind.

Now, any claim to refute the sum total of witness testimony to the Reinhard camps is eventually going to have to confront all of them.

Seems like you think I'm a keeper. It would keep me busy alright.

In our critique, we examined denier canards like diesel and corpse colour and found them all dramatically wanting. The deniers had advanced their claims, we refuted them.

Let me see how you did that. Still wading through the hundreds of posts.

In particular, on a classic issue like 'diesel' we were able to show where this had come from and why, noting a major disagreement between witnesses who actually operated the gassing engines and those who did not. The best explanation for the repetition of 'diesel' was that it was camp slang, reinforced by the fact that a diesel generator for the power supply was colocated next to the petrol-driven gassing engine. Thus, the diesel argument has been destroyed once and for all. Sorry.

I see, special interpretation saves the day yet again. All things "Sonder" similarly equal death. Where would we be without Holocaust historians giving us translations for the rich German language? Anyway, so if Eichmann at his trial says a Russian submarine engine was used (even if there is no record of the Germans capturing one intact), it was a GASOLINE engine? Makes sense, Russian engineering, put a gasoline engine in a submarine.

Oh, an excellent example would be Hans Aumeier, SS officer, telling the British in Norway that the first gas chambers at Auschwitz were named 'Bunkers' at the same time as Szlama Dragon, Sonderkommando, told the Poles the exact same thing.

I'm almost laughing out loud. Bunkers is very specific and you do realize that the original Krema I gas chamber had been converted by the Germans into an air raid shelter in September 1944 even according to conventional history right? Bunkers sounds so out of the blue. Should have given anyone a clue that it is a place for gassings.

By looking at details not mentioned in the report, silly. For example, the Vrba-Wetzler report doesn't discuss wire-mesh columns in Kremas II and III. However, we have witnesses on both sides of the Iron Curtain describing wire mesh columns to different investigating nation-states, with those interrogations or testimonies remaining unpublicised at the time. Ergo, they were independent reports since there is no common source in the public domain which could have formed the template for that detail, which is repeated so frequently that it would be massively improbable that it was invented simultaneously by telepathy or whatever other magic fantasy you have to claim to deny the fact that the witnesses are independent on this.

Sweet, corroborating evidence on wire mesh columns which were never found. I guess those thievy Soviets needed scrap metal BADLY.

Bare assertion fallacy. And before you start blethering about Hoess, think on this: there were more than 30 SS officers who served at Auschwitz who described gas chambers and mass murder to Allied and East Bloc interrogators from 1945 to the time that Hoess was captured in March 1946.

Fine, give 10. I feel lenient.

Feel free to lay out an argument that they were all tortured.

Feel free to show me ten. I'll show you one who was tortured.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mc3y-6DobeQ/UBCXnJPk1WI/AAAAAAAAHW8/s84N-roe8FA/s640/1.jpg

But I guess I should stop blethering.

But first you have to identify who they are. Someone who had actually read a decent amount on Auschwitz would know who they were and who captured them. I'm pretty sure you don't.

I don't. I guess I'm stupid.

It's patently obvious that you have absolutely no idea how many witnesses there are from the SS side alone, never mind other witnesses. There were nearly 40 SS witnesses who served in the Reinhard camps just to name one example. Better than 100 SS witnesses testified in the run up to and during the Frankfurt Auschwitz Trial. There were 32 separate trials involving gas vans in postwar Germany, i.e. not conducted by the Allies. Each of those trials had multiple German witnesses, never mind other witness categories.

If I have some spare time after wading through all the posts here, I'll go looking for your SS witnesses to the gas chambers. They'd better be there.

Yet the SS still confessed to gas chambers. As did Eichmann in Argentina when he was a free man, being interviewed by a Dutch SS veteran who wanted him to deny the Holocaust. Yet Eichmann didn't.

I wouldn't mention Eichmann if I were you. See above.

If there are so few documents then you can list them, no? And tell us why they don't prove gas chambers.

If there was ANY document that CONCLUSIVELY proves gas chambers did exist, there wouldn't be nearly as many revisionists, wouldn't it?

Generations of deniers have tried to tell us what the 'Vergasungskeller' document meant. We have been told it was

a carburetion chamber
an air raid shelter
a morgue
a delousing chamber

which are all mutually contradictory explanations, and which all are contradicted by other documents and other facts relating to the same crematoria in Auschwitz.

So you're saying this sign is wrong in TWO ways? It actually WAS used as a gas chamber AND it was not a Gaskammer but a Vergasungskeller?

http://www.sannhistoria.org/grap/dachau1.jpg

Try again buddy. Gas chamber is Gaskammer in German. Vergasungskeller IS NOT.

Now, on its own the 'Vergasungskeller' document could be read in all sorts of ways but the document doesn't exist on its own.

I couldn't give a hoot whether you have a million documents saying Vergasungskeller, a Vergasungskeller is a gassifying basement or cellar, not a gas chamber.

So that's your document angle buggered.

I'm sure you're happy to have me buggered.

On the contrary, I specifically DID explain cremations in 15 minutes because I discussed multiple body cremations. If you cremate 2 bodies at the same time then you will complete the bulk of the cremation in 30 minutes. By this stage the size of the corpse is actually quite small and so you can insert 2 more bodies into the muffle. Thus, 4 bodies per hour, therefore 1 body per 15 minutes. In actual fact, each body is taking a full hour to be cremated down to cinders.

I am sorry but the available documentation seems to suggest that one body can be cremated in 15 minutes WITHOUT mentioning this is done by shoving in more than one body per muffle. Apart from other issues with those documents, this clearly indicates forgery.

Of course, it's all a lot easier when a significant number of the bodies are those of children.

It's been suggested by promotors of the conventional Holocaust that children and those emaciated people were good candidates. They'd like to forget that they claim most people were allegedly gassed upon arrival and hence not emaciated. A better idea would be to give up the ridiculous claims that up to 4700 people or so could be cremated a day at Auschwitz, but that would be equivalent to admitting at least one case of good forgeries exists. So no can do.

Since it's known that ash was thrown into the Sola river then it's pretty unsurprising that the full quantity of ash was not found. There are however still ash ponds and ash pits at Birkenau today. But the fact that the ash was thrown into the river makes your 'no one can find the tons of ash' a spectacularly stupid argument.

If you've ever watched "Defamation", you'll see that the Israelis still demonize the Polish living around Auschwitz as having used those ashes as fertilizer on their land.

And if you actually knew anything about the concentration camp system then you'd know that the Nazis discontinued sending out urns quite early on for most inmates, especially for Poles, Czechs, Russians and Jews, continuing only for German inmates, whose relatives received an urn filled willy-nilly with some ash from the latest cremation rather than cremating each body individually.

Well, NOW you're adding nuance.

So far, you're averaging about D minus by denier standards, Simon. That is compared to the Fs scored by Clayton Moore and the C minuses from Dogzilla. We've heard it all before. You'll have to try harder.

Meh. I'll try looking for your SS witnesses to the gas chambers if I have time. I know 3 or 4, but 30?

 

[Natan]

If you care about your credibility then please don't quote the Journal of Historical Review from 20 years ago. The German government has been pretty open about the number of claims for compensation and has a brochure about it which you can read here.

It would have been easiest for me if I had a real document indeed. I have seen better (with respect to concrete figures for numbers of claims, less about amounts) documents on German reparations than the one you've presented. I guess I'll have to find them back and see whether there is some discrepancy to be found there.

 

[Natan]

Your reading comprehension is evidently not very good and nor is your grasp of historical context. Brack stated in mid-1942 that he thought of the 10 million Jews in Europe, 2-3 million ought to be spared for labour. That implies very directly that the others would die. 'am Leben erhalten' is the term he used, IIRC.

That also implies conquering the whole Soviet Union all the way up to Vladivostok to get his ten million. An optimist alright.

He was of course an over-optimistic Nazi who assumed that the summer offensive would probably bring total victory to the Nazis, thereby opening up the possibility to kill 7-8 million Jews. In actual fact the Nazis had already killed nearly 2 million Jews by June 1942. They went on to kill just over 5 million.

Oh sure. Maybe if you interpret Zugang in the Hoefle telegram as "killed". More help with interpreting the rich German language. Me I think Zugang means entry of some sort.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Der Bundesminister der Finanzen
5300 Bonn 1
Graurheindorferstr. 108


10. September 1985
VI A4-01478-L 4/85
Herrn Werner Laska

Betr.:Wiedergutmachung nationalsozialistischen Unrechts; hier: Leistungen an Israel
Bezug:Ihr Schreiben vom 4. September 1985

Sehr geehrter Herr Laska,
auf Ihr Schreiben vom 4. September 1985 darf ich Ihnen zur Ergänzung einen Abdruck der Wiedergutmachungsübersicht nach dem Stande vom 1. Januar 1985 übersenden. Darin finden Sie auf Seite 2 (rot kenntlich gemacht)auch Hinweise auf die Zahl der bis zum 1. Januar 1985 gestellten Anträge. Allein nach dem Bundesentschädigungsgesetz und dem Bundesrückerstattungsgesetz sind es zusammen weit über 5 Millionen.
Hinzuzurechnen sind außerdem alle Anträge, die im Rahmen sonstiger Wiedergutmachungsregelungen - beispielsweise nach den Entschädigungsgesetzen der einzelnen Bundesländer - gestellt worden sind; insgesamt wird man wohl von mindestens 6 bis 7 Millionen Anträgen ausgehen können.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Im Auftrag
Oldenburg

Beglaubigt Stempel Unterschrift Angestellte

=====================================================

If there are supposedly 6 million dead, even taking multiple applications into account, how come there are at least 5 million claims for reparations from Israel? I do have to agree that Werner Laska is not exactly an unbiased source and I can not find a scan or something of the original letter.

You'll find the Holocaust huggers have little respect for the Jewish people of WWII Europe.

For 3 straight years Europe's Jewish people arrive at camps a million each year and are gassed without being registered. The Jewish people took no notice that a million of their friends, neighbors, and relatives simply disappeared off the face of the Earth and arrived for a second and third year.

And there is story after story about young children surviving multiple so called death camps.

The vicious Germans were babysitters?

And all the Jewish doctors. What was their purpose?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Some books about the "Holocaust" that aren't the usual lies and fabrications.

Auschwitz: Crematorium I and the Alleged Homicidal Gassings by Carlo Mattogno (Sep 15, 2005)

Auschwitz: The First Gassing. Rumor and Reality by Carlo Mattogno (Sep 1, 2005)


Auschwitz the End of a Legend: A Critique of Jean-Claude Pressac by Carlo Mattogno (Jun 1994)

Auschwitz: The End of a Legend : How Was Such Mass Murder Technically Possible? (Critique on Pressac's Auschwitz Books) by Carlo Mattogno (May 1994)

Auschwitz-Lies. Legends, Lies, and Prejudices on the Holocaust by Carlo Mattogno and Germar Rudolf (Sep 15, 2005)
Auschwitz Lies: Legends, Lies, and Prejudices on the Holocaust (Holocaust Handbook) by Rudolf Germar, Carlo Mattogno, Henry Gardner and Carlos Porter (Jul 31, 2011)


Auschwitz: The First Gassing: Rumor and Reality (Holocaust Handbook) by Carlo Mattogno and Henry Gardner (Dec 4, 2011)


Auschwitz: Open Air Incinerations by Carlo Mattogno (Sep 1, 2005)
Auschwitz: Crematorium I and the Alleged Homicidal Gassings (Holocaust Handbooks, vol. 21) by Carlo Mattogno (2010)
Auschwitz-Lies. Legends, Lies, and Prejudices on the Holocaust by Carlo Mattogno Germar Rudolf (Sep 15, 2005)

Auschwitz - The Case for Sanity: A Historical and Technical Study of Jean-Claude Pressac's "Criminal Traces" and Robert Jan Van Pelt's "Convergence of Evidence" (Holocaust Handbook) by Carlo Mattogno and Henry Gardner (Sep 30, 2010)

Auschwitz: Plain Facts: A Response to Jean-Claude Pressac (Holocaust Handbook) by Carlo Mattogno, Robert Faurisson, Serge Thion and Rudolf Germar (Nov 30, 2010)
Auschwitz: Plain Facts. A Response to Jean-Claude Pressac by Germar Rudolf (ed.) (Sep 1, 2005)

Auschwitz: Open Air Incinerations (Holocaust Handbook) by Carlo Mattogno and Henry Gardner (Nov 30, 2010)


Auschwitz: The First Gassing by Carlo Mattogno (Aug 10, 2008)



Auschwitz Holocaust revisionist Jean-Claude Pressac: The "gassed" people of Auschwitz: Pressac's new revisions by Carlo Mattogno (1995)


The Myth of the Extermination of the Jews by CARLO MATTOGNO (Oct 20, 2009)





Concentration Camp Stutthof: And Its Function in National Socialist Jewish Policy (Holocaust Handbooks Series, 4) by Jurgen Graf and Carlo Mattogno (Jun 2003)


Concentration Camp Majdanek: A Historical and Technical Study by Jürgen Graf and Carlo Mattogno (Nov 1, 2004)

Concentration Camp Majdanek: A Historical and Technical Study (Holocaust Handbook) by Carlo Mattogno and Jurgen Graf (Jan 1, 2012)


The Central Construction Office of the Waffen-SS and Police Auschwitz: Organization, Responsibilities, Activities by Carlo Mattogno (Jun 2005)


Belzec in Propaganda, Testimonies, Archeological Research, and History (Holocaust Handbook) by Carlo Mattogno and Henry Gardner (Jun 30, 2011)
Belzec in Propaganda, Testimonies, Archeological Research, and History by Carlo Mattogno (Jun 21, 2004)

KL Majdanek: Eine Historische und Technische Studie (German Edition) by Jurgen Graf and Carlo Mattogno (Jun 1998)


My banned holocaust interview by Carlo Mattogno (1996)


The Journal of Historical Review, 1989 Omnibus by Robert Faurisson, Fred Leuchter, David Irving and Carlo Mattogno (1989)


The Journal of Historical Review, 1988 Omnibus by Robert Faurisson, Carlo Mattogno, Henri Roques and Martin A Larsen (1988)




Sobibor: Holocaust Propaganda and Reality (Holocaust Handbook) by Jurgen Graf, Thomas Kues, Carlo Mattogno and Henry Gardner (May 31, 2010)

Chelmno: A German Camp in History and Propaganda (Holocaust Handbook) by Carlo Mattogno and Henry Gardner (Dec 10, 2011)

Treblinka: Extermination Camp or Transit Camp? (Holocaust Handbook) by Carlo Mattogno and Jürgen Graf (Jan 2004)

Treblinka: Extermination Camp or Transit Camp? (Holocaust Handbook) by Carlo Mattogno, Jurgen Graf and Regina Belser (Dec 31, 2010)
Treblinka: Vernichtungslager Oder Durchgangslager? (German Edition) by Carlo Mattogno and J]rgen Graf (Oct 2002)

The Central Construction Office of the Waffen-SS and Police -Auschwitz by Carlo Mattogno (2005)


The Journal of Historical Review: The Myth of the Extermination of the Jews By Carlo Mattogno (Volume Eight, Number Two, Summer 1988) by Theodore J. O'Keefe (1988)

Die Akte Sobibor by Carlo Mattogno, Thomas Kues Juergen Graf (Jan 1, 1901)


The Bunkers of Auschwitz: Black Propaganda versus History (Holocaust Handbooks)
Bunkers of Auschwitz by Carlo Mattogno (Jan 1, 1901)


Konzentrationslager Stutthof und Seine Funktion in der Nationalsozialistischen Judenpolitik (German Edition) by Jurgen Graf and Carlo Mattogno (Aug 1999)-Illustrated


Kl Majdanek: Eine Historische Und Technische Studie = Concentration Camp Majdanek (German Edition) by J]rgen Graf and Carlo Mattogno (Jun 2003)

The crematories of Auschwitz: A critique of Jean-Claude Pressac by Carlo Mattogno (1995)

The Giant With Feet of Clay : Raul Hilberg and his Standard Work on the Holocaust (Holocaust Handbooks) by Jürgen Graf (Apr 25, 2001)

Exactitude: Festschrift for Robert Faurisson to His 75th birthday by Robert H. Countess, Germar Rudolf and Christian Lindtner (Jan 2004)


Did Six Million Really Die? by Richard Harwood (Dec 10, 2011)

Holocaust Denial as an International Movement by Stephen E. Atkins (Apr 30, 2009)

Jewish Emigration from the Third Reich by Ingrid Weckert (Dec 2, 2004)

Dissecting the Holocaust: The Growing Critique of "Truth" and "Memory" (Holocaust Handbooks Series, 1) by Germar Rudolf (Aug 1, 2003)


Special Treatment in Auschwitz: Origin and Meaning of a Term (Holocaust Handbooks)

The Rudolf Report: Expert Report on Chemical and Technical Aspects (Holocaust Handbooks Series, 2) by Germar Rudolf (Jun 2003)

 

[Belz...]

Revisionists most often don't just deny the cause but also the numbers, right? I will agree that even if it is 1.5 million or something and no gas chambers, you can genuinely ask the question whether morally it matters for those who suffered or whether it makes the Nazis any better. It indeed DOES NOT. But it DOES matter with respect to the truth.

That's an interesting and telling alteration of what I said: I didn't change the 5 million number.

 

[Loss Leader]

The starving to death was intentional, sure. You are aware that jews were by far not the only group in concentration camps, right?

Was there a race, religion or nationality that saw a higher percentage of its worldwide population interred?

 

[Straw Man]

As others have already pointed out, way to go, you just absolved Stalin of most of his crimes.

Anyone who takes prisoners has a duty of care to them. Failing to meet that duty of care, regardless of circumstances, is murder. The Nazis were presiding over camps in which very large numbers were dying long before 1945.

The Nazis just about managed to feed 7 million foreign workers through to the end of the war along with large numbers of POWs, but for some reason the 700,000 concentration camp prisoners died in disproportionate numbers. What might that reason be?

Face it, if the Nazis could organise the proper feeding of 10x the number of foreign workers, then appealing to "Allied bombing" doesn't fly at all.

Can I add to that, the foreign civilian internees from belligerent nations managed to survive, apart from the very small numbers who got sick or old.