General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

[LemmyCaution]

Lemmy, correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t you pulled up on the old RODOH forum about a story concerning a fictitious relative of yours who was supposedly held by the Germans in a POW camp somewhere inside the Reich?

Ah, in fact, you and others claimed that my relative in the POW camp - Fallingbostel - was fictitious - get this - because, having heard over the years about his experiences but not read about the camp in eons, I misspelled the camp name in posting about it! I believe part of the exchange went like this, with a Mr Albert Fish replying to my post on my father in law with this rather bizarre post, introducing "Samuel Goldstein" into the discussion:

Yes KentFord9, or should I say "Samuel Goldstein" it was a very silly, amateurish mistake to make. You created the character of your Internet father in law (a supposed veteran of the Battle of the Bulge) to enhance the credibility of your RODOH identity. Unfortunately for you your laziness in copying misspelled names from dodgy American Internet sites has given the game away.

I replied, saying that in fact

If I'd copied the camp's name, I'd have found a decent source and spelled it correctly. Good grief. I misremembered the spelling. The turnip story stuck with me, as did my father-in-law's comments about the Russian POWs. My relating this anecdote enhances nothing about me, my Rodoh identity, or my sense of worth and well being. It was a merely response to Balmoral's crack about turnips and a relevant comment in the context of camp life, a tangent to be sure.

If that is what you mean by my being "pulled up" on a fiction, why, I am a bit confused, because it seemed that your BS was instead exposed in the discussion: I believe, rather, I was "pulled up" on the proper spelling of a POW camp whose name I'd mangled a bit, having made the egregious error of substituting an o for an a, like so, when I wrote that (and the context is interesting and worth reading, IMO) my father in law was incarcerated as a POW

at Follingbostel, from whence he later escaped. He used to declare, as though it were a burning contemporary issue, that he would never again eat anything with turnips in it, as a result of his camp experiences. He also reported that the treatment of the Soviet POWs was murderous, with many of them on starvation rations. Anti-Soviet GI's would try to smuggle food to the Soviets, whom they ostensibly depised, because they could not bear to see them starving. I guess under certain conditions even a turnip has its charms.

If this "pulling up" is your best shot, and/or how you do history, god help you, Mr Traynor.

 

[LemmyCaution]

RODOH. RODOH.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that where you fantasized about your corespondents being hung on The Day Of The Rope?

And where you first started lying about that movie you were making for release Real Soon Now -- that's been what? Five? Six years ago now?

LOL, good "memory" TSR, yes, that RODOH, and I was one of the two correspondents fantasized about (a polite word for Mr Traynor's musings!).

And, yes, The Fish Reporr has been a long time comin'.

 

[LemmyCaution]

4) Of course they are anti-semites. Find one who isn't one.
5) How is that an attack on freedom of speech ?

I think now is a good time to remind our rev interlocutors of the place (Nazi Germany) and time (during the Third Reich) that freedom of speech was reserved for antisemites and denied to opponents of antisemitism.

And by "denied to" I am not engaging in cry-baby histrionics like those of Mr Moore. Mr Moore wails about the fate of a few brave revs, the self-appointed leaders of the truth movement, 99.44% of them cowed into silence by mere laws and possible penalties for inciting hatred. Mr Moore now has a hissy fit over his losses in the rough and tumble of free exchange - and marks it up as an attack on speech! No, in Nazi Germany denial of speech rights usually meant shutting the eff up or doing hard time in a place like KL Dachau or Mauthausen.

 

[000063]

I suggest you use the search tool and refresh your own memory Dr Terry. Your JREF collegues tactic of smothering revisionist arguments in broadsweeping BS and insinuating all critical thinkers are anti-Semites is an attack on freedom of speech.

Why are you backing those liars Nick?

The sad thing is, you'll never realize the irony.

Nice try attempting to conflate "revisionist" and "critical thinker". Too bad it flies in the face of the massive amount of evidence the deniers in this thread regularly ignore, which is why most of your points are personal attacks instead of actual points. For example, Clay is studiously and conspicuously ignoring a post Terry made asking him to back up one of his claims, desperately trying to change the subject. He has also lied about his own source when he specifically quoted the section that explicitly contradicted his claim. His posts consist almost entirely of incredulity. He is clearly doing very little, if any, "critical thinking".

I would like to explicitly deny that I think Holocaust denial is necessarily anti-Semite. It oft involves people who are, but many HDs are simply idiots.

Lemmy, correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t you pulled up on the old RODOH forum about a story concerning a fictitious relative of yours who was supposedly held by the Germans in a POW camp somewhere inside the Reich?

Red herring/ad hom combo.

 

[TSR]

One notes that, like his Brave Aryan Heroes, ct has run from getting rid of his "jester" by the simple expedient of point out my "defense" of Zisblatt, preferring instead to pretend the matter was deported back East while himself importing more lies from another forum.

Four and counting, admirer of wife beating -- four and counting.

 

[Nick Terry]

I would like to explicitly deny that I think Holocaust denial is necessarily anti-Semite. It oft involves people who are, but many HDs are simply idiots.

All the people who have come up with the ideas within Holocaust denial, without exception, have been antisemites. I'm talking of Bardeche-Rassinier-Faurisson-Butz et cetera. The entire doctrine is tainted to its core with antisemitism. There might well be a very small number of contrarians who think it's funny to deny reality, but if they stick with it they absorb the antisemitism too. That's what happened to that sad case, Bradley Smith, currently dying of cancer after wasting the last 30 years of his life on a quixotic crusade.

 

[000063]

....
Other JREF members like Border Reiver, 000063, Robrob and ANTPogo who also supported Zisblatt revealed their almost adolescent gullibility and excitability whilst directing a torrent of mindless insults at me. Shame on you! ....

I have never defended Zisbaltt. I do not give a crap about her.

I challenge you to provide a post showing me

1. Supporting Zisblatt,
2. "directing a torrent of mindless insults at [you]"

The irony, of course, is that just about all you do is insult people. I have, IIRC, repeatedly asked you why you do not call out the clear intellectual dishonesty of your fellow "revisionists". You have never answered. Much like you will be able to provide evidence for either of your claims regarding me, or for that matter anyone at all. The last time we chatted, you accused me of lying, quote-mined my simple questions out of your response, and dodged when I pointed out how transparent you were. In fact, you provided a textbook example of a denier dismissing a debunker's points as irrelevant without ever explaining their criteria for relevance.

If you want to prove deniers have a point, quit whining about the imaginary incidents of debunkers being meeean to you among other things, and actually address the evidence. And I do mean "address", not "ask incredulous questions you don't actually care about the answers to".

 

[Moss]

I normally go Moss.hit(head, desk); when the Nazi hagiographers complain about the likes of Zisblatt but stay strangely silent when it comes to obvious frauds on their side like Germar Rudolf or Leuchter. Especially when the latter two fraudulently claimed to possess expert knowledge and objective results. (Which reminds me of the equally silent Herr Krege, where is that report and where is the raw data?)

 

[LemmyCaution]

I have been quite busy yesterday and today and only now scrolling through and replying to posts in this thread. I seem to have missed where Mr Moore replied to the questions asked him about Nick's list of scholarly works on Jewish resistance. Could someone link to the post where Mr Moore states which of the works he's read, explains how the works support the Lemming Theory, and does a close analysis of a work of his choice? Much obliged, LC

 

[TSR]

I have been quite busy yesterday and today and only now scrolling through and replying to posts in this thread. I seem to have missed where Mr Moore replied to the questions asked him about Nick's list of scholarly works on Jewish resistance. Could someone link to the post where Mr Moore states which of the works he's read, explains how the works support the Lemming Theory, and does a close analysis of a work of his choice? Much obliged, LC

Sure thing, it was right here ~~~> ( * )

 

[Cyrix686]

If you don't the answer to your question about which Waffen SS unit was involved Charles Traynor, pop over to the Axis History Forum. That's where you should be.

 

[Cyrix686]

I have heard about this Fish report. Does it discuss Holocaust denial or is it something to do with the carparks at Auschwitz? Someone called Mr. Albert Fish was always saying that it was going to be out soon.

 

[TSR]

I have heard about this Fish report. Does it discuss Holocaust denial or is it something to do with the carparks at Auschwitz? Someone called Mr. Albert Fish was always saying that it was going to be out soon.

Would those be the parking lots that that serial murderer flies all the way to Poland each year to get drunk in with his buddies?

 

[Cyrix686]

He publicly stated that he had been sober on his last annual trip to the camp. And I think he was in a van, not an aeroplane.

 

[Cyrix686]

I think he was drinking the times before though, otherwise why would he have to write something like that???

 

[LemmyCaution]

LOL, you lot either used to peek in at RODOH - or good news travels fast and far. The Fish Reporr, how do I say, "forthcoming." That's what it is, always has been been, and ever will be.

I have read, where the Fish Reporr is involved, about car parks, Polish women, floods, beer, more beer, and so on. At first it seemed to concern a scientific expedition, on the sly, and chiseling and investigating, to be done at Auschwitz with the aim of Scientific Truth. Then it was mostly about being forthcoming. And beer. The Reporr devolved into a rather pedestrian and pedantic travelogue, not at all friendly to Poland and its residents.

Mr Traynor, posting under another name at the time, declared that his Reporr/video

has the potential to be very damaging to the Hoax in the future.

According to himself, it had the power to make hoaxsters quake in their boots:

The only people fearing the release of the Fish Report are you True Believers.

We learned, in 2009, having waited a year for the promised masterwork, that the Reporr would be, well, forthcoming in 2010:

Incidents like this only reinforce my will to fight for truth. Look forward to the Fish Reports forthcoming release in 2010.

So promised Mr Traynor.

And we waited, not having learned the essential truth of the Reporr, its nature as always-to-be-forthcoming.

At one point, during the follies, Mr Traynor pledged, one of his merry band's annual jaunts at Auschwitz completed, as follows:

Sorry to dash your hopes KF9, but all Kameraden involved in Operation Wahrheit Macht Frei III have returned home safe and sound. In fact, I had such a good time at Auschwitz this year that I feel fully recharged and ready to continue the struggle against your disgusting Holohoax with renewed strength.

Sometime in 2010, the Reporr still forthcoming, Mr Traynor himself forgot its nature and again and declared, against Reason and Nature:

Any insult from the devil is a compliment. I want you all to be in no doubt that you will be seeing a lot more of the Fish in 2011. You should also expect to see the publication of the eagerly anticipated Fish Report. Don't forget: he who laughs last, laughs longest.

Which must be true, because I have been laughing, I confess, quite some time - perhaps 4 years - about this Fish Reporr.

Not finished declaring, Mr Traynor once nailed down with decent accuracy when the Reporr would see the light of day:

RODOH members not blacklisted should be looking forward to the release of the Fish Report in the first quarter 2011.

The emblem for the whole operation, if not a photo of a Shriners' car zipping around a parking lot, could be this bit of wisdom which Mr Traynor once posted:

I intend to be down the kneipe relaxing with a few beers and surrounded by blond floozies. You know the more I think about this field trip and the Fish Report, the more confident I become of being able to pull it off successfully.

Mr Traynor's ideas about Auschwitz and reality are, you can see, quite different things. His confidence notwithstanding, the Reporr remains more an object of Mr Traynor's imagination than an actual thing-in-the-world.

The Reporr remains forthcoming. There will be a quiz, Cyrix. I am confident, with these SparkNotes, you will do swimmingly.

 

[Cyrix686]

Sure thing, it was right here ~~~> ( * )

Isn't it amazing. Miniaturised detailed argumentation with bibliographic references and page numbers irrefutably proving Clayton Moore's first JREF lemmings theory of Umsiedlung. All concealed behind a tiny asterisk!

 

[TSR]

He publicly stated that he had been sober on his last annual trip to the camp.

And of course, we all know what a paragon of honesty he was...

 

[LemmyCaution]

I took him at his word. Because Science and Truth were at stake. After all.

 

[Cyrix686]

I also remember something concerning a receptionist in Cracow becoming suspicious of Fish and his comrades behaviour and presence.