Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[Natural Born Skeptic]

1. By "in hand", I meant "on his person. That wasn't well worded.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think "carry" means, where do you think people who carry keep their guns? In the center console? In the glove compartment? Do you think they put the gun on the seat when they get out of the car??

People who carry typically do so on their person, that's safest because you're not leaving a gun laying around somewhere, which could result in forgetting and leaving it where a child or other could get a hold of it.

 

[Unabogie]

Deleted.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Good point. Since he had no compunction against committing a felony, maybe he wouldn't have a problem committing another.

Another ? What prior felony is was convicted of ? None that I am aware of.

Maybe he was just too stoopid to know how to cut off without the GPS alerting the authorities within seconds.

Sure, that's it.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=removing+ankle+bracelet

 

[Noztradamus]

1. By "in hand", I meant "on his person. That wasn't well worded.
~~~

When I go grocery shopping and expect to return after dark, I put a small flashlight that lives in a desk drawer with my car keys and wallet into one of my pockets.
George's black flashlight maybe 2" longer than mine, but it would still fit into a jacket pocket.

So I see nothing unusual in GZ having it on his person when he exits his truck

 

[Unabogie]

Deleted.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Trayvon Martin was involved in a burglary? When? With whom?

Tu quoque ?

You are conflating outcome with intention.

Of course there any number of outcomes in which Zimmerman would not flee the country despite the fact that he was planning to do so.

But this is irrelevant to the fact that he was making plans to flee.

I admitted, I agree it was possible what he was doing was preparing to be able to flee.

So why do you think he was conspiring to hide money and a passport from the court?

I think he and his wife were moving monies around so it wouldn't be counted in setting his bail. It doesn't sounds like they intentionally kept the passport as much as they intentionally didn't turn it in right away. That's why i keep saying it sounded like he just decided to keep his options open, rather than he was planning on leaving.

Probably the cops that would have been alerted when he removed the monitor.

He had plenty of money to pay someone to do it. Google suggests it's not rocket science.

 

[sgtbaker]

Thanks for this part. Just to complete the thought here, if the lights being on were because he exited the car with the auto-light still on, the headlights would have shut off after 15 seconds, according to the manual.

That means that if he were walking at the normal speed he demonstrated in the walkthrough, they lights would have shut off around the same time as he reached the first house. He would have been walking toward the T for the first time in the dark. This is why it contradicts what he later said about staying on RVC because of the lack of light. This is why the police brought it up to him. Why go into the dark in one direction, but not the other, all things being equal? Especially since he says Trayvon was gone and he wrote him off as having gotten away?

You raised a good point that maybe his headlights lit the way on the first pass, but I think we've shown that this isn't possible (unless he was running) since the headlight timer only waits 15 seconds before turning off. Now if he was running, it actually supports your theory but undercuts his story. He said he never ran and it was only the wind. But if he was running, it would explain how he got to the other side, the lights went off, and then he was concerned about walking back in the dark. But running after Trayvon is an obvious problem for him, right?

He is still shy of the T, in the walkthrough, when he says his flashlight wasn't working. Why would he be trying to get his flashlight on if the lights of the car were still on? I think the lights turned off when he was approaching the T, he tried to turn the flashlight on while he was walking, it doesn't turn on, when he continues to RVC to get the address but he is distracted by trying get the flashlight on. I am just not seeing a story breaker, here. In the walkthrough, they stroll over to the sidewalk and begin the walk up the sidewalk at about 7:43, they stop at the T and he talks for another 15 seconds before they start again and make it to the end, a minute and 13 seconds later. He does sound like he is walking faster on the call with the dispatcher so I think the time fits, very easily.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Reasonable mature discussion tends to get left by the wayside once people start willfully ignoring evidence.

I don't recall you being quite so tolerant to anyone who would have suggested that no one had presented any evidence of Martin's involvement in burglary aside from the screwdriver and jewelery.

I don't believe I am willfully ignoring anything. And if you have to go back to a few months ago in this thread to 'recall' me not being 'quite so tolerant' - I think I must be doing pretty good.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

That may be so, but on a Ridgeline, it specifically says it does this if the lights are on. We know George left the lights on for illumination, and we know he took the keys with him. You can hear the dings until you hear the door close, which suggests the keys were with him. In other words, "****, he's running", grab the keys, open the door. That's how I always exit a car. I want to make sure I have my keys with me.

Now, if you are going to suggest he was in such a hurry to get out of the car he rushed things, that really doesn't help support his story. "****, he's running", followed by his huffing and puffing, is consistent with a quick car exit, but not his calm search for a street sign.

But again, the evidence is consistent with the manual: He grabbed his keys, left the lights on for light, exited the car with his gun and flashlight.

By the way, when did he grab the flashlight after he says "****, he's running" and jumps out of the car? Was he carrying it the whole time? And if so, that goes to another issue, which is his "trip to the store". Was he carrying a gun and flashlight on a routine trip to Target? Sure sounds like patrolling to me...

All of my cars have flashlights in them and accessible. My insurance company specifically recommends that, along with spare batteries.

And has been gone over many times before, many people who have CWP carry everywhere, every time they leave the house.

Speaking of the trip to target ... do we all agree he was going to Target ?
Wasn't he bank video going bust things wide open about he was actually somewhere else ?

 

[sgtbaker]

Last car I had with that feature (and this was a long time ago), it was variable up to 2 minutes.

I wish I would have seen this comment a long time ago because I felt like I was the only one that knew of this feature. Had I known I had a little back up, I would have probably skipped the video.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Deleted as Uniboogie deleted his comments.

 

[Unabogie]

He is still shy of the T, in the walkthrough, when he says his flashlight wasn't working. Why would he be trying to get his flashlight on if the lights of the car were still on? I think the lights turned off when he was approaching the T, he tried to turn the flashlight on while he was walking, it doesn't turn on, when he continues to RVC to get the address but he is distracted by trying get the flashlight on. I am just not seeing a story breaker, here. In the walkthrough, they stroll over to the sidewalk and begin the walk up the sidewalk at about 7:43, they stop at the T and he talks for another 15 seconds before they start again and make it to the end, a minute and 13 seconds later. He does sound like he is walking faster on the call with the dispatcher so I think the time fits, very easily.

The distance to the T from either sidewalk is 10-15 seconds. The distance from the car to the first house is 10-15 seconds. If the trip has 3 legs: car to house, house to T, T to RVC, then by the end of the first leg, the lights are off. So he then has to walk the second leg in the dark. I don't believe this is what happened, though, since as you know I think he was obviously running. But if he was walking then by the time he reached the first house, it was already dark.

 

[sgtbaker]

All of my cars have flashlights in them and accessible. My insurance company specifically recommends that, along with spare batteries.

And has been gone over many times before, many people who have CWP carry everywhere, every time they leave the house.

Speaking of the trip to target ... do we all agree he was going to Target ?
Wasn't he bank video going bust things wide open about he was actually somewhere else ?

Bank video? What the hell did I miss?

 

[sgtbaker]

The distance to the T from either sidewalk is 10-15 seconds. The distance from the car to the first house is 10-15 seconds. If the trip has 3 legs: car to house, house to T, T to RVC, then by the end of the first leg, the lights are off. So he then has to walk the second leg in the dark. I don't believe this is what happened, though, since as you know I think he was obviously running. But if he was walking then by the time he reached the first house, it was already dark.

What are you basing your time off of?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Of course he was. Little Hero Complex cop-wannabes always carry such tools.

Serino is the one who made the ‘little hero complex’ comment, but he also said that GZ did not want to be a police officer.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Bank video? What the hell did I miss?

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-grio/48165188#48165188

The Duval County State Attorney released another collection of evidence Thursday, including never-before-seen footage of Shellie Zimmerman using at atm the day Trayvon Martin died.

In a word, nothing.

But there were grand hopes that the video was in discovery because it would prove GZ wasn't really going to target or I don't know what.

 

[sgtbaker]

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-grio/48165188#48165188

The Duval County State Attorney released another collection of evidence Thursday, including never-before-seen footage of Shellie Zimmerman using at atm the day Trayvon Martin died.

In a word, nothing.

But there were grand hopes that the video was in discovery because it would prove GZ wasn't really going to target or I don't know what.

I for one, am now convinced he is guilty. Does that have any relevance to the case at all?

 

[quadraginta]

No. I am curious about the instrument used. I chose this approach because:

- there is no decimal value greater than 12
- there is a decimal value of .10 and no others show signifigant digits

In either instance, the difference is negligible except for the calculation for OM-6h. The rest will be gobbled up by rounding anyway.

I guess one way to tell would be to calculate OM-6h and OM-6f using both methods and comparing the results with what we know about Martin's height.

I think what you are seeing is this.

Total stations are becoming standard equipment at crime scenes where there is a lot of spread out evidence to locate. My understanding is that SPD used one there.

The procedure would be to set up on a point that could be easily returned to if necessary, and could be counted on to stay in one place. The intersection of the edges of the sidewalk at the "tee" would be ideal for this.

Then a couple of permanent features would be located for reference purposes and to establish an orientation for the data set. In this case that would be the two building columns. (Only one is needful, the other is redundancy, and to facilitate re-establishing points at a later date without an instrument. More on that later)

Finally all of the locations of the various points of evidence would be recorded.

After having done this it is a simple matter to inverse between any two points in the data set and find out the distance and bearing between them.

It looks to me like they did this between each of the evidence locations and both building columns so that anyone with two measuring tapes could go back to the scene and re-construct the locations. No total station (and someone who knew how to use it) would be needed.

Civil and surveying distances in the U.S. are most commonly expressed in decimal feet. All of the total stations I've used in the past twenty years can be set to calculate and display in decimal feet or in metric, but I haven't seen one that uses feet and inches. Most surveyors and field engineers routinely convert between inches and decimal feet in their head if they need to. It isn't particularly hard with a bit of practice. Someone who can't probably can't use the hardware either.

It's not uncommon in situations which don't require high precision to keep the display precision for distance on a total station set to two decimal places when working in decimal feet, more than that clutters up the screen real estate, and tends to be wishful thinking anyway. I think that whoever hand drew that sketch was probably reading the distances off of the data collector they were using to inverse the points and just rounding to the nearest tenth in their head. (Hundredths ... roughly equal to eighths of an inch ... aren't particularly realistic or even useful in a situation like that.)

My guess is that the one measurement with a zero in the hundredths probably actually had a zero in the hundredths, on the data collector display, and whoever was copying it just inadvertently wrote it down that way without thinking because they weren't actually rounding that one.

 

[triforcharity]

Right. Since my reply you quoted wasn't even in response to you, and the first thing you typed was 'useless drivel ignored' ... Do you think that predisposes me to bother answering your questions ?

So, because the post I replied to wasn't addressed to me, I am not allowed to respond to it? Cool.

So, we can conclude that you have either A-No plans to answer, because you're afraid to answer the question or B- You cannot answer it because it will hurt your entire argument WRT: Zimmerman's probable plans to leave the country.

Or, maybe there's a third one that I haven't thought of. Maybe you can explain then.

And yes, IMO, your post was mostly useless drivel. You're welcome to disagree, and that's fine.

But, the fact remains: To date, I have YET to see anyone come up with a reasonable reason to hide ~$130,000 and a valid passport from not only MOM, but also the courts.

WRT: The money transfers, there's a reason they are all less than 10,000 dollars. Do you know what that reason is? It's pretty significant, and it ties into the probability that GZ was planning on leaving. Take a guess, it's ok if you're wrong. Most people don't even know that this triggers an event at the bank because most people don't receive >$10,000 deposits at a time.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

WRT: The money transfers, there's a reason they are all less than 10,000 dollars. Do you know what that reason is? It's pretty significant, and it ties into the probability that GZ was planning on leaving. Take a guess, it's ok if you're wrong. Most people don't even know that this triggers an event at the bank because most people don't receive >$10,000 deposits at a time.

I'm quoting this just because it's so priceless, and I want to make sure it doesn't disappear.