General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

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There is adequate evidence for Einsatzgruppen activity. I don't "deny" Einsatzgruppen activity. Team holocaust believes evidence for the Eisatzgruppen is part of the evidence that jumps together to prove the gas chambers and the plan to exterminate the Jews and the six million number. I'm not gullible enough to fall for the theory that lots of weak evidence adds up to strong evidence. For evidence for Einsatzgruppen activity to be relevant to me you need to tie it to the gas chambers or the plan or the six million. So far, nobody has done that.

On the contrary, people have done all those things repeatedly, but you have simply ignored the connections and obfuscate the issues.

It has been pointed out repeatedly that the mass shootings (by a range of SS and Police forces, not just "the Einsatzgruppen", who were only one branch of the entire force) claimed over 2 million Jewish lives. We have consistently used more realistic figures of 5.1 to 5.3 million victims of the Nazi genocide, so right there you have a very direct tie to the numbers - 40% of the victims died in mass shootings.

You've also been told repeatedly that the mass shootings wiped out very close to 100% of the Jews in the occupied Soviet territories, and that they were used to wipe out the remaining Jewish population of Galicia after Belzec was closed. It's also certainly been pointed out more than once or twice that mass shootings accompanied the deportations inside western Poland. So the two processes are intertwined and overlap with each other, and cannot therefore be isolated with a handwave from you.

It's also been pointed out repeatedly that the Jaeger report contains language which indicates that Standartenfuehrer Jaeger saw his aim as the total elimination of Jews in Lithuania. This is not justified with reference to any of your strawmen about battling Bolshevism or fighting partisans, but was clearly an end in itself. The only reason he did not wipe out the entire Jewish population of Lithuania was that there were protests from the civil authorities and the Wehrmacht who wanted a minority kept alive as forced labourers.

That right there is your 'plan', the result of a compromise between different factions in the Nazi regime, which was elaborated a few weeks later at Wannsee - the able bodied would be kept alive for a time as forced labourers and then dealt with accordingly later on. This kept the pragmatists happy since they would not be deprived of all Jewish labour. The plan for the Europe-wide Final Solution was thus implemented from the outset through selection. Which is what the normative account says, and which is very clearly seen at Auschwitz.

We might also add, given your relentless obfuscation of 'exceptions', that there are no other exceptions mentioned in the case of Lithuania, since exceptions for intermarriage or being a war veteran were applied exclusively in the core Reich, to German and Austrian Jews. That was also part of the plan, which covered the whole of Europe, not just Germany and Austria.

The Einsatzgruppen were subordinated to the RSHA, and were mirrored in other parts of Europe by Security Police commands. Indeed, Einsatzkommando 3 became known as the Kommandeur der Sicherheitspolizei Litauen, and as such was a mirror image of KdS Warschau, KdS Krakau or KdS Lublin. Men from the Einsatzgruppen were transferred to western Europe or to annexed terrritories, thus Naumann from Einsatzgruppe B was sent to command the Security Police in the Netherlands, while Bradfisch from Einsatzkommando 8 became the Gestapo commander in Lodz, and thus they presided over deportation actions to death camps.

The RSHA, whether in the field as the Security Police or on the home front as the Gestapo (Staatspolizeistellen or Staatspolizeileitstellen) consistently used the term Sonderbehandlung to refer to executions, and did so often enough that there can be no doubt that they used it to mean killing since it was used interchangeably with liquidation, execution, shooting and hanging. So when an RSHA-commissioned report on the statistics for the Final Solution in 1942 written by Richard Korherr used the term Sonderbehandlung to refer to camps in the Government-General (i.e. Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka) and the Warthegau (i.e. Chelmno) this was evidently too much even for Himmler, who ordered a few examples edited out, but left in one and left a copy of the letter telling us precisely which lines to rewrite with further euphemisms. The same euphemism of Sonderbehandlung also recurs repeatedly in the context of Auschwitz.

Weak evidence? Historians don't think so. It's actually excellent evidence of the mentality of the SS that the specialists in violence who had to carry out the task euphemised the process, while the political entrepreneurs spoke far more blatantly of destruction and killing. It's also excellent evidence that the deportations in 1942 to Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka and Chelmno ended in death, something we can confirm from other sources of various provenances.

That's why when Hans Frank and other civilian officials of the Government-General spoke repeatedly of destroying the Jews in the GG, a little lightbulb goes off in the heads of human beings blessed with even a basic reading comprehension, and they correlate those statements with the eyewitness accounts from Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka. Which as is also well known come from not only the few survivors but also bystanders, Trawnikis and the SS, along with visitors. And then sensible people correlate all this with the postwar condition of the site and what was found there, and conclude that the witnesses were not lying.

Especially since we have countless cases across Europe, including western Poland, where witnesses - Jewish, bystander and Nazi - testified to mass shootings which can be documented and/or which were uncovered in exhumations after the war. Or which were recorded in contemporary sources like diaries, underground reports and manuscripts.

So when you blether that

I'm not gullible enough to fall for the theory that lots of weak evidence adds up to strong evidence.

you simply expose your ignorance not only of the evidence, but of the rules of evidence and of epistemology. In the philosophy of science, there's something called the principle of total evidence, which does what it says on the tin.

Contrary to your apparent delusion, neither historians nor courts are going to exclude witnesses, nor are they going to reduce what is considered 'evidence' solely to forensics. They're certainly not going to ignore documents and nor are they going to misrepresent organisational structures and plans like you do.

But I tell you what, if you think the 300+ direct witnesses to the Reinhard camps are "weak evidence" then please explain how the sum total of their testimony came into being, explaining how, why and when these witnesses came to become deluded and misreport what they saw.

I'd be even more curious how you explain how the 10s of 1000s of Auschwitz witnesses are all lying.
 
There is adequate evidence for Einsatzgruppen activity. I don't "deny" Einsatzgruppen activity.

You haven't made a clear, unambiguous statement about the activity of the mobile killing units, which comprised more elements than the Einsatzgruppen by the way, for example, police battalions, units attached to HSSPFs, Waffen-SS, and even units of the Wehrmacht.

In fact, confronted with clear, unambiguous evidence of mass murders of Jews by EG squads in Lithuania, rather than accept the evidence for genocide, you tried to make the argument that the actions didn't target Jews as Jews and that they were instead either anti-partisan in nature, a rogue operation led by lower-level, unauthorized personnel, or part of population removal. Confronted by Jaeger's statement that the anti-Jewish operations had realized the intent of making Lithuania virtually free of Jews (it had to be clarified for Jaeger that the goal included keeping a remnant alive for slave labor), you argued that the actions were not planned. And so on.

Perhaps you don't know what the word deny means?

Team holocaust believes evidence for the Eisatzgruppen is part of the evidence that jumps together to prove the gas chambers and the plan to exterminate the Jews and the six million number.

No one believes any such thing with regard to gas chambers, and no one has posted any such thing. You've been challenged before to offer examples, and you haven't done so.

Speaking for myself, the activity of the Einsatzgruppen and other mobile killing units resulted in the murders of close to 1.5 million Jews (Hilberg's estimate) and is therefore, on its face, part of the overall Holocaust death toll of 5+ million Jews. Also, the squads operated with the goal of making the eastern territory free of Jews by murdering them, with some spared temporarily for labor, and in this sense the deaths of the Jewish victims were intended. In this, the activity of the squads aligns with and is part of the overall operation of the Final Solution, in that the mobile killing squads used one lethal means - whereas other phases of the Final Solution, in different locations, used different means. That is the connection among the various component parts of the Europe-wide extermination of the Jews.

I'm not gullible enough to fall for the theory that lots of weak evidence adds up to strong evidence. For evidence for Einsatzgruppen activity to be relevant to me you need to tie it to the gas chambers or the plan or the six million.

Well, then, what is relevant to you is your own personal problem.

The mobile killing units are relevant to the discussion of the Holocaust and HD, on the other hand, since the murders they carried out are viewed by scholars, the USHMM, Yad Vashem, and others as a component part of the Judeocide and since the overall Holocaust death toll includes victims not killed by gassing (e.g., shooting during deportation roundups, ghetto deaths, mobile killing squad deaths, shootings in the camps as at Treblinka's Lazarette and at other camps as in Operation Erntefest, forced labor sites like the DG-IV and Dora-Mittelbau, deaths in the camps in the Transnistria, death marches, etc.).

The death camps, with gassing facilities, are one component part of the genocide as well, and you don't seem very eager to discuss specifics about their role either, as you continually dodge discussion of Warsaw and Lodz. I also mentioned in a post yesterday a number of other places that connect directly to either mobile gas chambers, as at Maly Trostenets, or to AR camps, as do Lublin and Bialystok.

Nor have you ever explained the totality of evidence for the death camps - which comprises large numbers of witness testimonies, perpetrator admissions, German documents, forensics, etc. You simply repeat "no evidence" and "gas plan six" as though these mantras are responsive to what actually exists and needs to be explained.

So, forgive me, but when you claim that you won't discuss Warsaw and Lodz, for example,
Because they don't address gas plan six? That's probably why
you are dodging and trying to hide behind a smokescreen of dishonesty - or you are truly ignorant of basic facts.

So far, nobody has done that.

As gas chambers at fixed location death camps and mobile shootings in the East are not the same phases of the extermination, no one will make a direct link of the sort you ask for. Nor should anyone. People will, however, link the two phases in terms of goals, evolution of tactics, and elements of an overall intention. And you will handwave away what is shown.

I haven't refused to read the Jaeger report. I've read it many times. It's one of the shortest documents in the holocaust liturgy. If you want to talk about it, feel free. If you say something interesting maybe I'll chime in. But don't expect me to start the conversation.

You haven't been asked to start a conversation on the Jaeger report: the issue is that you threw out BS about this report, and the killing operations in Lithuania, and can't defend it. That's, of course, when you clammed up about the report. So, you won't “chime in” even to support your shredded claims (anti-partisan activities, a rogue operation, population removal) - and that dodging is what is glaringly obvious - that you made up crap and now hide from it, rather than acknowledging what you claimed and either backing it up or admitting your error.

Because they don't address gas plan six? That's probably why.

But (see above) 2 of the 5 examples directly lead to death camps with gas chambers - Lodz to Chelmno and Birkenau, Warsaw to Treblinka.

Which claim was that?

The claim that
Any films you saw are not evidence of the final solution. There aren't any
as noted in post #4371, which I referenced and you apparently are too lazy to look up.
 
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But I tell you what, if you think the 300+ direct witnesses to the Reinhard camps are "weak evidence" then please explain how the sum total of their testimony came into being, explaining how, why and when these witnesses came to become deluded and misreport what they saw.

I'd be even more curious how you explain how the 10s of 1000s of Auschwitz witnesses are all lying.

Me too.

So Dogzilla needs to explain 1) how the Jaeger report is an example of anti-partisan activity, a rogue operation, or population removal; 2) what happened to the Jewish populations of Riga, Lodz, Vilna, Kiev, and Warsaw; and 3) the existence of witness reports about the death camps.

If he knows, and if he cares, that is.
 
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As gas chambers at fixed location death camps and mobile shootings in the East are not the same phases of the extermination, no one will make a direct link of the sort you ask for. Nor should anyone. People will, however, link the two phases in terms of goals, evolution of tactics, and elements of an overall intention. And you will handwave away what is shown.

To be honest, Dogzilla left such a wide open gate with this:

Team holocaust believes evidence for the Eisatzgruppen is part of the evidence that jumps together to prove the gas chambers and the plan to exterminate the Jews and the six million number.

that the answer has to be yes, we do make direct links, because the shootings speak directly to the issue of numbers and the issue of planning. Two out of three are clearly directly connected.

In turn, the fact that the Nazis used shootings to wipe out virtually the entire Jewish population of Lithuania would inevitably pose questions that Dogzilla seems wholly unkeen to answer regarding Nazi intentions towards the Jews of, say, the Warthegau. There is a general consensus that the escalation of mass shootings in the occupied Soviet territories formed the backdrop against which decisions for the Europe-wide Final Solution were taken.

Notions such as 'cumulative radicalisation' capture something of this, and identify the process as a cumulative one: the fact that Jews were being wiped out in the east increased the chance that the Nazis would also murder Jews in central and western Europe, and makes it more and more implausible that there would be a fundamentally different policy towards different categories of Jews.

Differences there certainly were, the Jews of Ukraine were not exempted by virtue of mixed-marriages or being veterans of WWI (for the enemy?), but the fact is that the Nazis killed Jews from all over Europe.

Thus, it is not really possible for anyone to properly accept the full extent of the mass shootings but to deny gassings, and why those who do accept the full extent of the mass shootings never really deny gassings. So clearly there is a connection there. That is why deniers, including Dogzilla, are forced to misrepresent the causes and extent of the mass shootings, since acknowledging that the Nazis actually did wipe out Jews qua Jews by any method whatsoever creates a slippery slope for them. Which is one reason why we raise the subject, of course.

The filiations between shootings and gassing are so numerous that the two cannot be separated, which is what Dogzilla has been desperately trying to do. The methods overlapped chronologically, geographically and institutionally. The very fact that the Nazis used multiple methods of killing also relates directly to the terminology they used; both shooting and gassing resulted in the Vernichtung, Ausrottung, Liquidierung, Sonderbehandlung and Toeten of Jews. That is one reason why there are fewer occasions where the Nazis spelled out "gassing" than seems to be expected by the denier fraternity, although there are enough cases where they did that the basic denier delusion is refuted.

The overlap can be quite striking in many cases. On 30 September 1942, Adolf Hitler gave a speech at the Sportpalast in Berlin where he repeated his 'prophecy' of the destruction of the Jewish race in Europe. In the following month the ghettos of Brest-Litovsk and Pinsk were mown down into mass graves by Police Battalion 310, who left reports of their actions which are quite extensive and detailed, using terms that were entirely unmistakeable. Those reports were compiled into Meldung 51, sent to Hitler in December 1942, which recorded the execution of 361,000 Jews in, primarily the region of the Reichskommissariat Ukraine, which controlled the territories of Brest and Pinsk. Killings went on simultaneously to the north, in Weissruthenien, leaving a fat paper trail of documents.

Not long before Dolfy's speech, the Jews of Warsaw had been subjected to the Great Deportation, in which thousands were shot on the spot and 250,000 transported to Treblinka. Survivors in the Warsaw ghetto heard Hitler's speech and understood its message perfectly well as a result. Also in the weeks immediately prior to the speech, the Jews of Lodz ghetto were once again subjected to an 'Aktion', sending thousands more to their deaths at Chelmno. Before and after Dolfy's speech, Jews were deported to Auschwitz from the Netherlands, and subjected to selections on arrival which were recorded in among other sources, the diary of Johann Kremer. And the Zentralbauleitung there was busily ordering extra crematoria and adapting their original design to convert the morgues into gas chambers.
 
My point had to do with looking for gas chambers, positive evidence for them, in EG reports, which is how I have taken Dogzilla's comments and what I meant by "a direct link of the sort you ask for." You just won't find exactly a piece of direct proof for gassings at the death camps in EG reports.

That said, in addition to the connections you reference, one will find Himmler mulling over alternatives to mass shootings, as he did in summer 1941, described by many historians, including Hilberg, in vol. 1 of The Destruction of the European Jews (3/e, 2003), where in his discussion of brutalization of the perpetrators and other problems with the open-air shootings, starting on p 329, Hilberg comments on repercussions among the local population, "an undercurrent of criticism in the army's ranks," the view of some that "this was an embarrassing business," press questioning about the shootings, foreign inquiries, the problem of excesses, and other ugliness (such as the circulation of photographs taken by German troops) which the open, semi-public killings caused. Bach-Zelewski himself was hospitalized with a stomach disorder and his doctor "reported that von dem Bach was suffering especially from reliving the shooting of Jews that he himself had conducted" (p 336). Like Breitman and Browning, Hilberg considers Himmler's visit of 15 August to Minsk, where Bach-Zelewski warned the RFSS of the impact of the shootings on the Germans, pivotal: "Himmler was visibly moved" and described the duty as "repulsive" but necessary (p 343). "Himmler asked Nebe to 'turn over in his mind' various other killing methods more human than shooting. Nebe asked for permission to try out dynamite on the mentally ill people." After these experiments, "Nebe confided to von dem Bach that the dynamite had been tried on the inmates with woeful results. The eventual answer to Himmler's request was the gas van." (p 344)

That open air shootings continued after the innovation of gassings was introduced further demonstrates that the two methods were component parts of the Final Solution.

And, yes, we both noted that intention (plan) and numbers, two of Dogzilla's tripartite Holocaust, are present in the mobile killing operations. So he fails utterly without the gassing connection, however we characterize it.

The rest of what you say I agree with and falls under what I was trying to get at by saying that "People will, however, link the two phases in terms of goals, evolution of tactics, and elements of an overall intention."
 
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My point had to do with looking for gas chambers, positive evidence for them, in EG reports, which is how I have taken Dogzilla's comments and what I meant by "a direct link of the sort you ask for." You just won't find exactly a piece of direct proof for gassings in EG reports.

Not quite true; Einsatzgruppe B took delivery of two 'Gaswagen' in February 1942, and noted this in their activity and situation report for the latter part of that month. One might add that there are other such direct proofs to be found in the east, especially surrounding Maly Trostinets, along with the paper trail surrounding Nebe's Mogilev experiment in '41 that we have discussed on this thread already with Snakey.
 
Not quite true; Einsatzgruppe B took delivery of two 'Gaswagen' in February 1942, and noted this in their activity and situation report for the latter part of that month. One might add that there are other such direct proofs to be found in the east, especially surrounding Maly Trostinets, along with the paper trail surrounding Nebe's Mogilev experiment in '41 that we have discussed on this thread already with Snakey.

LOL, which I realized after posting and made an edit: "at the death camps." I clearly didn't edit fast enough!

I realize I am interpreting Dogzilla's statements in a fundamentalist, narrow manner . . . probably having in the back of my mind his prior claim that in a discussion of the Jaeger report I'd used it to prove gas chambers being used, which I hadn't . . .
 
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I am saying no such thing. I am also not lying.

I'm saying that whether pictures and photos are taken is both
a) secondary to the question of what actually occured, and
b) not what ANTPogo asserted, which was that the Russians took photos and video of the dead bodies they found at Auschwitz. Your question involved asking for evidence and photos of the gas chambers, without actually acknowledging the point ANTPogo was making.

You also choose to cut out the entire rest of my post, which kicked a gaping hole in your logic and addressed your double standards. Curious. I can only assume that you do not dispute those points, and admit that you were wrong and operate on double standards. Thank you.

Well-poisoning.


It's not necessary to watch 9 hours when someone else has already done the legwork of debunking.

And if you want to talk about someone running from questions and evidence, why does Doggie absolutely refuse to say what his criteria for "relevance" is, or to actually read the Jager report no matter how much it's bought up or referenced? Why did you, personally, quote-mine my post to cut out the questions you didn't want to answer? That is transparent hypocrisy.


00063, I didn’t answer your two other questions from post #4496 as I considered them to be spam. For a quiet life and to shut you up for a while here are the answers to those questions.

A2. No

A3. I am not responsible for the conduct of other posters on this forum.
 
No, he's pointing out that the gas chambers were known to have been blown up by the Nazis by that time, and that the Soviet army was concerned more with, you know, liberating the camps than with sightseeing (setting aside the fact that video wasn't even invented until years later).

Do you apply this same standard to other historical events? No video == didn't happen? I don't recall any video or pics of Jodl signing Germany's surrender -- does this mean we are still at war?


Your evidence the Soviets knew the Kremas had been blown up prior to liberation is?

Your evidence Soviet psych warfare units couldn’t be bothered to seize the opportunity to secure a potentially massive propaganda coup is?

Do you apply this same standard to other historical events? No evidence whatsoever == 6M genocided?
 
No evidence whatsoever . . .

It appears that we have a volunteer for Nick's challenge!

But I tell you what, if you think the 300+ direct witnesses to the Reinhard camps are "weak evidence" then please explain how the sum total of their testimony came into being, explaining how, why and when these witnesses came to become deluded and misreport what they saw.

I'd be even more curious how you explain how the 10s of 1000s of Auschwitz witnesses are all lying.

Excellent. Let's go, Mr Traynor.
 
I swear, I can actually hear someone's mind somewhere shifting into reverse.

Of course, neither Traynor nor Moore demand that other deniers watch the videos. Only debunkers.



When have I ever demanded anyone should watch revisionist videos? I hope your are not attempting to misrepresent me again.
 
Your evidence the Soviets knew the Kremas had been blown up prior to liberation is?

Irrelevant. The Krema existed separate from other people's knowledge of them.

Your evidence Soviet psych warfare units couldn’t be bothered to seize the opportunity to secure a potentially massive propaganda coup is?

You mean the condition of the camp's inhabitants and what was being done to them wasn't a massive propaganda coup? " Look we found them doing something so horrible that many people will struggle with it! Let's make it worse!"

Do you apply this same standard to other historical events? No evidence whatsoever == 6M genocided?

Except there is ample evidence for the genocide. A lot more than presently exists for the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest, but that is also an accepted historical event.
 
Slow down, old boy, I'm still dealing with the Auschwitz liberation. You should also note that Charles Traynor dances to his own tune, not yours.

You seem afraid of tackling these issues, Mr Traynor.

I note that you excuse your apparent cowardice and clear dodging by elevating your refusal to your dancing to your own tune - Skrewdriver?

Also I note that you refer to yourself in the 3rd person . . .
 
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I would add, Mr Traynor, that you yourself offered up the claim "no evidence" for the extermination of 5-6 million Jews - and not only in the context of the liberation of the camps either, as you now try passing off, but as a general comment on the Holocaust.
 
Your evidence the Soviets knew the Kremas had been blown up prior to liberation is?
Since I never made any such claim, I feel no need to support it. During != pirior to.
Your evidence Soviet psych warfare units couldn’t be bothered to seize the opportunity to secure a potentially massive propaganda coup is?
Your evidence that any such "psych warfare units" were on the front lines is ... ?
Do you apply this same standard to other historical events? No evidence whatsoever == 6M genocided?
Do you *ever* answer a straight question?

Your last question is based on a faulty premise, since there are mountains of evidence which converge to show the murders committed by your heroes.

Shall we discuss the Jäger Report, for example?

Or would you rather duc the question of Jodl signing Germany's surrender again. Does the fact that there is no video of this mean we are still at war?
 
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Since I never made any such claim, I feel no need to support it. During != pirior to.

Your evidence that any such "psych warfare units" were on the front lines is ... ?

Do you *ever* answer a straight question?

Your last question is based on a faulty premise, since there are mountains of evidence which converge to show the murders committed by your heroes.

Shall we discuss the Jäger Report, for example?

Or would you rather duc the question of Jodl signing Germany's surrender again. Does the fact that there is no video of this mean we are still at war?


The attentive reader notes that you are routinely reduced to basing your defence of the holocaust lie on a game of semantics. In short, sir, you are exposed as a charlatan with an agenda.

After this weekend’s shenanigans I am left wondering if there are any honest amateur historians in the exterminationist camp at JREF.

ANTPogo, we are still waiting for you to locate some still or newsreel images of the Auschwitz-Birkenau gas chambers taken during the liberation of the camps. Please hurry as your colleagues are getting worried they will have to explain why the Soviets would have ignored such important structures.


PS. There is newsreel footage of Jodl signing the surrender. This forum is not a legal document and my use of the word “video” earlier rather than “movie” or “newsreel”, etc. is only a calamitous error in the eyes of a pedant.
 
Irrelevant. The Krema existed separate from other people's knowledge of them.


You can't arm wave your way out of this one.


You mean the condition of the camp's inhabitants and what was being done to them wasn't a massive propaganda coup? " Look we found them doing something so horrible that many people will struggle with it! Let's make it worse!"


Since when did the Soviets allow a little human suffering to get in the way of their ideological and military objectives?
 
The attentive reader notes that you are routinely reduced to basing your defence of the holocaust lie on a game of semantics. In short, sir, you are exposed as a charlatan with an agenda.
No, words mean things.

You are exposed as trying to twist those meanings.
After this weekend’s shenanigans I am left wondering if there are any honest amateur historians in the exterminationist camp at JREF.
There is no "exterminationist camp".

There are those who accept historical fact, and then there are deniers.
ANTPogo, we are still waiting for you to locate some still or newsreel images of the Auschwitz-Birkenau gas chambers taken during the liberation of the camps. Please hurry as your colleagues are getting worried they will have to explain why the Soviets would have ignored such important structures.
No, "we" are neither waiting for ANTP nor worried.

We *are* waiting for you to produce a reason that they should have done any more documentation than they did of the structures the Nazis had destroyed, and to explain why this specific type of evidence is the only acceptable support for the historical facts of the matter.
PS. There is newsreel footage of Jodl signing the surrender. This forum is not a legal document and my use of the word “video” earlier rather than “movie” or “newsreel”, etc. is only a calamitous error in the eyes of a pedant.
No, there is no such newsreel footage.

Attentive readers will note that I have offered exactly as much evidence for my assertion as ct.
 
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