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Chemtrails?

catweasel said:
Hi my first post here! Cool forum, finally a place of sanity! As for chemtrails, as if the government would allow planes to spray poisons over the taxpayers!! Let alone the number of people that would have to be involved in something like that and still keep it secret is crazy.

Even if they are spraying, it has to be for our benefit and maybe its best we do not know why they are doing it?

I am so tired of all the folks at work who talk about chemtrails, and banking ****, and fluoride in the water, and everything else that goes with it. Why can't they just do their work, pay their taxes, go home and enjoy their weekends happy to have those? Maybe if they stopped staring at the sky they would do more work, earn that raise they are bitching about and be able to pay the debts they agreed to?

Anyways rant off, good to finally find a place of sanity on the net!
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First, love the SN, just started watching the show myself, and hilarious.

Second, this stuff kills me, instead of trying this rube goldberg machine of a plan, why wouldn't they just use a product that everyone uses in north america, and is in constant contact with a mucus membrane, toilet paper.

Seriously, there are probably better plans, but with about ten seconds of thinking, i came up with a more efficient plan than the NWO. Either they don't exist, or should seriously consider giving me a job offer, as no one they have seems to be able to come up with a half decent plan.

Third , to combine the two statements, i feel, when discussing Chemtrails, the phrase, "What magic is this?" is very appropriate.
 
sadhatter said:
First, love the SN, just started watching the show myself, and hilarious.

Second, this stuff kills me, instead of trying this rube goldberg machine of a plan, why wouldn't they just use a product that everyone uses in north america, and is in constant contact with a mucus membrane, toilet paper.

Seriously, there are probably better plans, but with about ten seconds of thinking, i came up with a more efficient plan than the NWO. Either they don't exist, or should seriously consider giving me a job offer, as no one they have seems to be able to come up with a half decent plan.

Third , to combine the two statements, i feel, when discussing Chemtrails, the phrase, "What magic is this?" is very appropriate.
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You have identified the problem with almost every CT ever espoused. For all their dependence on secret CIA ninjas and futuristic high technology, Jr. High students could still come up with a better plan.
 
I had an excellent reply from a Chemtrail believing mate a couple of weeks ago.

I asked him if he had two identical ice cubes and dropped one into a cold bath and the other into a hot bath, which would melt away first?

His (attempt to avoid an) answer, "but that's not precise enough, I need to know the exact temperatures"



This guy's an electrical engineer!
 
Robrob said:
You have identified the problem with almost every CT ever espoused. For all their dependence on secret CIA ninjas and futuristic high technology, Jr. High students could still come up with a better plan.
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Hell. junior high students could implement a better plan.
 
jaydeehess said:
Contrails that consist of ice crystals can, with the correct atmospheric conditions, 'seed' the air allowing more supercooled water vapour to condense, thus increasing the size of the cloud.

IIRC that was how it was explained to me by a physics prof waaay back in the '70s.
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If your interested, google "ice super saturated regions"
 
Chemtrails are nonsense of course, but there is at least one example that I am aware of where the government was actually testing chemicals on citizens.

The Ministry of Defence turned large parts of the country into a giant laboratory to conduct a series of secret germ warfare tests on the public.

A government report just released provides for the first time a comprehensive official history of Britain's biological weapons trials between 1940 and 1979.

Many of these tests involved releasing potentially dangerous chemicals and micro-organisms over vast swaths of the population without the public being told.

While details of some secret trials have emerged in recent years, the 60-page report reveals new information about more than 100 covert experiments.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience
 
Robrob said:
You have identified the problem with almost every CT ever espoused. For all their dependence on secret CIA ninjas and futuristic high technology, Jr. High students could still come up with a better plan.
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Whoever orders all the chemtrails must not be much of an Evil Overlord:
12. One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation.
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I don't give the chemtrail CT much weight these days, but I did come across this interview here, to which I havent found much debunking:

http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/shieldproject.html

its from a few years back, which the article's author claims to have interviewed an "Insider scientist" with connections to aircraft spraying which he called the SHIELD. The 'insider' was also suicidal after speaking out.

Reading through it, you'll read that the insider believed that the spraying was to prevent an ecological meltdown, at the same time admitting military involvement in connection with HAARP to produce much needed ozone.

He also divulges technical details on how the various countries produce the 'material' and how it is distributed 'blindly' in unmarked canisters so no one knows where it is made.

Here's another article from The Spotlight reposted on rense claiming the military has admitted to these programs.
http://www.rense.com/general11/chmmill.htm
 
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therival58 said:
I don't give the chemtrail CT much weight these days, but I did come across this interview here, to which I havent found much debunking:

http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/shieldproject.html

its from a few years back, which the article's author claims to have interviewed an "Insider scientist" with connections to aircraft spraying which he called the SHIELD. The 'insider' was also suicidal after speaking out.

Reading through it, you'll read that the insider believed that the spraying was to prevent an ecological meltdown, at the same time admitting military involvement in connection with HAARP to produce much needed ozone.

He also divulges technical details on how the various countries produce the 'material' and how it is distributed 'blindly' in unmarked canisters so no one knows where it is made.
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I had a quick look at the first article, does it really need debunking? It's supposedly by an anonymous whistle-blower who is now dead and cannot elaborate further. I'm struggling to find any evidence there, could you quote it?

Most telling is that it finishes with the following (lengthy) point which is basically telling you to "do your own research", now where have I heard that before? :rolleyes:

14. How are you related to the Chemtrails? How do you know that this is what is happening?

I would prefer to not state who I am or how I am related to all of this. To validate what I say, would require a bit of research on your behalf. I would recommend the following subjects to look up and study:

A. Population numbers for industrial nations and the tons of pollutants produced annually. Start with 1975 and work your way up.

B. Number of emerging Industrial Nations.

C. Number of cases of Skin cancers worldwide.

D. Crop Production vs. land area dedicated to crop production. Simple math will show that more acreage is needed to produce food per individual.

E. Automobile production from 1975 to present, estimated number of autos on the road and the average emissions of later model cars produced as compared the emissions of earlier model cars. A little math will show that though individual autos produce less emissions, the amount of emissions has risen due to the number of autos on the road. Remember that many autos are the road that were built before present emission control standards. 1980 is a cut off date - anything put on the road before then produces more pollutants than autos produced today. I would include research in the number of diesel autos produced, diesel has not been under the emissions control acts.

F. Severity of storms and the number of severe storms. Also include heat waves and droughts in that research, you will find that the numbers are staggering when compared to data from 1950, 1960 and 1970.

G. Research how naturally occurring Ozone is produced in the stratosphere. Compare to how it is produced industrially.

H. Research political reforms in the past 30 years, see which political institutions have changed, which nations have joined with whom. Concentrate more on these from 1982 onward. This would include the fall of the Wall and Iron Curtain.

I. Research polymers and how they are made, look at recent research done in biological polymers, medical polymers and filaments.

J. Check out spiders and spider web and the way spiders use their different webs and threads.

K. Research clean fresh water estimates as compared to the 1970's to today - world wide.

L. Research the following medical conditions per capita: Birth Defects Cancers Leukemia Immune deficiency diseases (excluding virus borne ID illnesses such as HIV) Occurrences of Learning disabilities, including dyslexia, ADD, and over all IQ tests Sterility for both male and females world wide Instances of glaucoma and cataracts.

M. Compare the history of UV indexes from 1970 to present. You may note that it was on sharp rise until 1997-99.

N. I would strongly recommend researching the reactions of different barium and aluminum compounds and how they are used. Research how long it takes for these metals in pure form to oxidize, how they combine with nitrates, carbon monoxide carbon dioxide and fluorocarbons and hydrocarbons and water vapor.

O. Research how mold propagates, the conditions it needs to grow and just how abundant it is in the atmosphere.

If you pursue these lines of inquiry, you will see the Shield Project as it really is.
 
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deeper said:
I had a quick look at the first article, does it really need debunking? It's supposedly by an anonymous whistle-blower who is now dead and cannot elaborate further. I'm struggling to find any evidence there, could you quote it?

Most telling is that it finishes with the following (lengthy) point which is basically telling you to "do your own research", now where have I heard that before? :rolleyes:

14. How are you related to the Chemtrails? How do you know that this is what is happening?

I would prefer to not state who I am or how I am related to all of this. To validate what I say, would require a bit of research on your behalf. I would recommend the following subjects to look up and study:

A. Population numbers for industrial nations and the tons of pollutants produced annually. Start with 1975 and work your way up.

B. Number of emerging Industrial Nations.

C. Number of cases of Skin cancers worldwide.

D. Crop Production vs. land area dedicated to crop production. Simple math will show that more acreage is needed to produce food per individual.

E. Automobile production from 1975 to present, estimated number of autos on the road and the average emissions of later model cars produced as compared the emissions of earlier model cars. A little math will show that though individual autos produce less emissions, the amount of emissions has risen due to the number of autos on the road. Remember that many autos are the road that were built before present emission control standards. 1980 is a cut off date - anything put on the road before then produces more pollutants than autos produced today. I would include research in the number of diesel autos produced, diesel has not been under the emissions control acts.

F. Severity of storms and the number of severe storms. Also include heat waves and droughts in that research, you will find that the numbers are staggering when compared to data from 1950, 1960 and 1970.

G. Research how naturally occurring Ozone is produced in the stratosphere. Compare to how it is produced industrially.

H. Research political reforms in the past 30 years, see which political institutions have changed, which nations have joined with whom. Concentrate more on these from 1982 onward. This would include the fall of the Wall and Iron Curtain.

I. Research polymers and how they are made, look at recent research done in biological polymers, medical polymers and filaments.

J. Check out spiders and spider web and the way spiders use their different webs and threads.

K. Research clean fresh water estimates as compared to the 1970's to today - world wide.

L. Research the following medical conditions per capita: Birth Defects Cancers Leukemia Immune deficiency diseases (excluding virus borne ID illnesses such as HIV) Occurrences of Learning disabilities, including dyslexia, ADD, and over all IQ tests Sterility for both male and females world wide Instances of glaucoma and cataracts.

M. Compare the history of UV indexes from 1970 to present. You may note that it was on sharp rise until 1997-99.

N. I would strongly recommend researching the reactions of different barium and aluminum compounds and how they are used. Research how long it takes for these metals in pure form to oxidize, how they combine with nitrates, carbon monoxide carbon dioxide and fluorocarbons and hydrocarbons and water vapor.

O. Research how mold propagates, the conditions it needs to grow and just how abundant it is in the atmosphere.

If you pursue these lines of inquiry, you will see the Shield Project as it really is.
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Good point, I suppose it is hard to prove something as valid from an anonymous source. :p I mean no facts are substantiated and no one can be implicated, so it doesn't serve much purpose to anyone other than raise speculations.

I see now that I skipped over reading the intro box in the top of the page written by the webmaster

So what if the story below is not a complete and detailed enumeration of all the possibilities? It is not intended to be and the insider makes no claim to know everything that is going on in our skies. That may be found in other departments...
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therival58 said:
Good point, I suppose it is hard to prove something as valid from an anonymous source. :p I mean no facts are substantiated presented and no one can be is implicated
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Is that what you meant? :)
 
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jaydeehess said:
spider webs?
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The article takes the form of a supposed interview with Deep Shield (that's the code name of the now dead, anonymous whistleblower)

The first question posed to him is this, (an obvious opener)

1. What purpose do polymer threads imbedded with biological material serve in this scenario?

Polymers are part of the mixture and they do form in threads and in `tufts'. The idea is simple and comes to us from the spider. As you may know spider webbing is very light, some newborn spiders spin a `parachute' to catch the prevailing breeze to travel far from their place of birth. Spiders have been able to attain high altitudes and travel great distances for long periods of time. Most of the elements used in the spray are heavier than air, even in their powdered form they are heavier and will sink quickly. Mixing them with the polymers suspends the particles in the atmosphere high above the surface for longer periods of time, therefore in theory we do not need to spray as often or as much material. Since the suspended particles eventually do settle into the lowest part of the atmosphere and are inhaled by all life forms on the surface there is an attempt to counter the growth of mold by adding to the mixture mold growth suppressants - some of which may be of biological material.

Mold comes in spores that travel on the winds; the polymers can attract mold spores through static charges created by the friction of the polymer threads and the atmosphere. Add a bit of warmth and moisture and mold begins to grow. The polymer is stored in a liquid form as two separate chemicals. When sprayed they combine behind the plane `spinning' long polymer chains (threads). Much tinkering has been done which the chemical matrix in past years. Many polymers (plastics) are non-biodegradable thus add to the problem of pollution. Various formula have been used, some which even use biological agents. It would be great if we could reproduce the same web material that spiders make, it is extremely strong, extremely lightweight and breaks down relatively fast in the ecology.
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How could he know all that if he wasn't telling the truth (or didn't exist)?
 
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jaydeehess said:
a good imagination?
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Hmmm but he's so specific. :)

Seriously though, those paragraphs are the only mention of spider webs until the conclusion I mentioned where he asked the reader to

Check out spiders and spider web and the way spiders use their different webs and threads.
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It's insane, tragic and funny all at once.
 
deeper said:
Hmmm but he's so specific. :)
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indeed he was. Seems to me that Nelson DeMille, Issac Asimov, Niven, Bradbury, Pournelle etc. are (were) very specific at times as well.:D
Not to mention Dyson's description of (what became known as) Dyson Spheres.

Seriously though, those paragraphs are the only mention of spider webs until the conclusion I mentioned where he asked the reader to



It's insane, tragic and funny all at once.
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Agreed
 
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