Creationists Argue Nessie Exists

[Ian Osborne]

I'm aware that 'loch' isn't pronounced 'lock', but it's close enough to make the 'Loch Inn' joke work. Especially in a Scottish accent.

 

[Rolfe]

Er, NOT in a Scottish accent. It's a Scottish accent where the two words don't sound alike.

Rolfe.

 

[Darat]

That it is acceptable, does not make it right.

I know some Glaswegians and a load of Londoners who say "deaf" when they mean "death". The majority of East enders will tell you what they "fink", this is nothing to do with accents, it's simply pronouncing a word wrong. Both are considered acceptable but they sure as hell ain't right.

Again you seem to think there is a Scottish accent/dialect - there isn't, there is a lot of variation in Socttish accents and none of them are any more right or wrong that any other.

 

[The Don]

That it is acceptable, does not make it right.

I know some Glaswegians and a load of Londoners who say "deaf" when they mean "death". The majority of East enders will tell you what they "fink", this is nothing to do with accents, it's simply pronouncing a word wrongly. Both are considered acceptable but they sure as hell ain't right.

ftfy

Is there a point at which "fink" ceases to be an incorrectly pronounced word and instead becomes a dialect word ?

 

[richardm]

Is there a point at which "fink" ceases to be an incorrectly pronounced word and instead becomes a dialect word ?

Or, indeed, "ain't".

 

[Darat]

Evidence?

I can't think of any scots accents where they've dropped the "ch" sound. Certainly not along the west coast or all the middle and eastern bits I know.

And not all English accents pronounce "lock" the same way...

The idea that there is a Scottish accent is pure nonsense just as it is pure nonsense that there is any "correct" way to pronounce a word.

 

[Dave Rogers]

The idea that there is a Scottish accent is pure nonsense just as it is pure nonsense that there is any "correct" way to pronounce a word.

The principle is not that any specific group of Scots pronounce it correctly. The principle is rather that the English pronounce it wrong.

Dave

 

[dafydd]

That it is acceptable, does not make it right.

I know some Glaswegians and a load of Londoners who say "deaf" when they mean "death". The majority of East enders will tell you what they "fink", this is nothing to do with accents, it's simply pronouncing a word wrong. Both are considered acceptable but they sure as hell ain't right.

I am half Scottish, I was born and half raised in Glasgow and Glaswegians do not pronounce death as deaf.

 

[dafydd]

Yup, why?

You are not familiar with the concept of a British pub lock in?

 

[dafydd]

Or, indeed, "ain't".

An't with a long "a" sound began to be written as ain't, which first appears in writing in 1749. By the time ain't appeared, an't was already being used for am not, are not, and is not. An't and ain't coexisted as written forms well into the nineteenth century—Charles Dickens used the terms interchangeably, as in Chapter 13, Book the Second of Little Dorrit (1857): "I guessed it was you, Mr Pancks," said she, "for it's quite your regular night; ain't it? ... An't it gratifying, Mr Pancks, though; really?" In William Hickey's memoirs (1808–1810), ain't appears as a contraction of aren't; "thank God we're all alive, ain't we..."

 

[ponderingturtle]

The point is that it sounds really incongrouous to talk about Loch Ness, and then use the word lake. It's just the way the language is normally used.

I appreciate that foreigners often find it awkward to converse out of their comfort zone like that, and we probably shouldn't make too much of a fuss about it. On the other hand sometimes it's fun to wind people up. Soaking the Saxon is a time-honoured pastime.

Rolfe.

And look how dumb everyone is when they talk about the king lizard king. But for some reason a stupid name doesn't stop people liking tyrannosaurus Rex.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Is Lake Vostok acceptable? That is after all not its name. And why not call it East Lake and translate both words?

 

[Nessie]

I have been to the Loch Ness Exhibition Centre and it has a lot on the natural history of the area, a bit on the supposed dinosaur Nessie is and some information about searches of the loch and a few of the famous Nessie sightings, such as my avatar.

Then you can by naff Nessie toys in the shop. Its all a bit of fun.

 

[malicus]

You are not familiar with the concept of a British pub lock in?

Ahhhh.........loch is supposed to sound like lock?

Sure, why not.

 

[Darat]

The principle is not that any specific group of Scots pronounce it correctly. The principle is rather that the English pronounce it wrong.

Dave

Right and wrong are simply the wrong terms to be using.

There is no Scottish accent that is "the" accent, therefore there is variation in how words sounds and each of those variations is equally "correct" as any other. And there is no "English accent that is "the" accent, therefore there is variation in how words sound and each of those variations is equally correct as any other.

Some argue for a so-called "standard" accent in both English and Scottish ("received" for English and "standard" for Scottish English) but all that usually refers to is how our "betters" pronounce words.

The "ch" in loch (sorry but I don't know the correct phonological notation) is pronounced the same by some English native and some Scottish native speakers - it just depends on the accent.

 

[commandlinegamer]

Other gaelic names (or anglisations thereof) act as Shibboleths for both Scots (may illustrate differences between highland/islanders and lowlanders/urban types) and English.

Whisky examples:

Bruichladdich (brew-ICH-lad-ICH, brew-ICH-lad-ee)

Glenfiddich (glen-FID-ick, glen-FID-ich, glen-FID-ee)

Glenmorangie (glen-mor-AN-jee, glen-MOR-an-jee)

I hesitate to offer 'correct' pronunciations, because it still seems to be a hotly contested topic, though I would normally say the second version of each of the above examples. There's also Drambuie which varies between 'yoo' and 'oo' for the second syllable.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Right and wrong are simply the wrong terms to be using.

There is no Scottish accent that is "the" accent, therefore there is variation in how words sounds and each of those variations is equally "correct" as any other. And there is no "English accent that is "the" accent, therefore there is variation in how words sound and each of those variations is equally correct as any other.

Some argue for a so-called "standard" accent in both English and Scottish ("received" for English and "standard" for Scottish English) but all that usually refers to is how our "betters" pronounce words.

The "ch" in loch (sorry but I don't know the correct phonological notation) is pronounced the same by some English native and some Scottish native speakers - it just depends on the accent.

(Erm... it was kind of a joke...)

Dave

 

[bluesjnr]

I am half Scottish, I was born and half raised in Glasgow and Glaswegians do not pronounce death as deaf.

Yes they do.

Which half of you was raised in Glasgow, the half without ears or the half that didn't venture outside Kelvinside?



Perhaps I should have stipulated that not all Glaswegians pronounce it thus but I assumed that it would be obvious what I meant.

I was wrong and my assumptive behaviour will be the deaf of me one day.

 

[SezMe]

You are not familiar with the concept of a British pub lock in?

No, I'm not. Could you give a poor, uneducated colonialist a hand?

 

[Duffy Moon]

At chucking out time, the landlord or lady might permit certain customers - usually friends - to remain in the pub and carry on boozing after hours.

The doors would be locked and curtains drawn, to avoid the attentions of any passing police car.

They're not such a big deal anymore as many pubs will have a late license and will continue serving until the last drunk goes home.

In fact, if my local has a "stay back", it's to allow people to smoke inside, rather than go outdoors as required by the law.


ETA: Oh look, Wikipedia pretty much says exactly that:

A "lock-in" is when a pub owner lets drinkers stay in the pub after the legal closing time: the theory is that once the doors are locked, it becomes a private party rather than a pub.

(snip)

Since the Licensing Act 2003 premises in England and Wales may apply to extend their opening hours beyond 11 pm, allowing round-the-clock drinking and removing much of the need for lock-ins. Since the smoking ban, some establishments have operated a lock-in during which the remaining patrons can illicitly smoke without repercussions.