Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Cylinder]

None of GZs blood or DNA on TM, as fighting generally involves close contact how did that happen?

It didn't.

 

[crimresearch]

None of GZs blood or DNA on TM, as fighting generally involves close contact how did that happen?

If TM had been beating GZ's head on the pavement some blood and definitly DNA would have got on to TM

Before Zimmerman fled from the police and went into hiding, as you have so often claimed, he wiped the body clean.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

You're ignoring the original conext and conflating an activity with a person. Unless you think the original statement was saying not to get into a confrontation with an activity?

I'm not ignoring the context or conflating anything.

The claim is that following someone is getting physically involved in the activity.

Going outside to check out noises you heard outside is getting physically involved in the suspicious activity in the same way as following someone, IMO. I find it to be a valid analogy. In the case of 'John' , though, he clearly did not get physically involved by a any reasonable definition, but was involved by Only Tells Truths definition.

But since it doesn't really matter ... you can have the last word and we can then disagree.

 

[bookworm]

Ahem...

except my post consisted of all the words in it and not just what you bolded.

 

[marplots]

None of GZs blood or DNA on TM, as fighting generally involves close contact how did that happen?

If TM had been beating GZ's head on the pavement some blood and definitly DNA would have got on to TM

Exactly. Unless DNA testing is only positive. In other words, if you find DNA, you can state there had to be contact, but if you don't find DNA, you can't exclude contact. It's a version of proving a negative.

But, if none of GZ's DNA was on TM, does that mean the fight didn't happen, and the punch didn't happen and neither the broken nose, nor the cut on TM's hand, was from TM hitting GZ? This would be a very interesting position if the prosecution went that way. Without doing so, it would seem the DNA testing isn't going to be useful.

 

[Rare Truth]

Total trivial point:

This is what GZ's truck looked like. A silver Honda Ridgeline.

Nice wheels for a dude whose parents pay his rent.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Let me ask then...

If what GZ described that night and the next day is physically impossible, why was there any doubt about arresting him ?

Why haven't we heard anything about being shot from a different scenario/position ?

Where is the big red flag in the forensics ?

I haven't seen anyone credible suggest that the shooting happened any other way than with TM on top of GZ, just as "john" reported seeing them before he heard the gun shot. I would think if it was obviously impossible, there would be a lot of experts explaining how it really happened, not just random posts on an Internet forum. Have some links ?

So, no takers in addressing the shooting didn't happen that way theory ? No explanation why such an obvious lie didn't result in an immediate arrest ?

Look, I have evidence GZ shot TM while standing ! See the red line, it matches the forensics exactly !

 

[Dan O.]

If we go by the current standard here, then any person who hears noises coming from their back porch, looks out the window and sees nothing, then goes outside to check it out and gets attacked - is asking for trouble and should go to prison if they end up killing their attacker.

If it's a covered porch this might be a grey area. But let's make it more relavent to the current situation: They hear noises and see someone walking past their porch between the houses. they get in their car and follow the suspect for three blocks, passing the suspect twice and stopping while the suspect always walking in the same general direction passes them. Then they get out of their car and walk another half block in the direction that the suspect was going and hang around the area for another three minutes. Then they get into a verbal exchange with the suspect which escalates to a physical altercation and culminates with pulling out a gun and shooting the "suspiscious" person.

There is simply no excuse for having gotten involved in such a case. When you feel there is a need to call in the police, that is your clue to get yourself out of harm's way and let the police handle it.

 

[Rare Truth]

You'll have to ask the now fired Chief Lee and the now Scarce SAG Wolfinger who overruled the lead homicide detective who wanted to arrest him.

 

[Unabogie]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/us/documents-tell-zimmermans-side-in-martin-shooting.html?_r=3&hp

Wow, on the Feb 29th interview, Serino says a witness saw George try and "detain" Trayvon.

About 28:00 in.

Ruh roh.

 

[Rare Truth]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/us/documents-tell-zimmermans-side-in-martin-shooting.html?_r=3&hp

Wow, on the Feb 29th interview, Serino says a witness saw George try and "detain" Trayvon.

About 28:00 in.

Ruh roh.

Could have been a "bad cop" routine by Serino to get Z to tell more than he is saying.

He knows Z was being coy and leaving out details. With all those inconsistencies, who couldn't?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/us/documents-tell-zimmermans-side-in-martin-shooting.html?_r=3&hp

Wow, on the Feb 29th interview, Serino says a witness saw George try and "detain" Trayvon.

About 28:00 in.

Ruh roh.

Yes, and TM liked to record videos on his phone, too.

As was pointed out to me yesterday, I think that goes into to the whole lying about facts to get you to confess bucket.

 

[Unabogie]

Exactly. Unless DNA testing is only positive. In other words, if you find DNA, you can state there had to be contact, but if you don't find DNA, you can't exclude contact. It's a version of proving a negative.

But, if none of GZ's DNA was on TM, does that mean the fight didn't happen, and the punch didn't happen and neither the broken nose, nor the cut on TM's hand, was from TM hitting GZ? This would be a very interesting position if the prosecution went that way. Without doing so, it would seem the DNA testing isn't going to be useful.

George says Trayvon hit him "like 30 times" and grabbed his nose and mouth to try and smother him. How you get no blood on you in that circumstance is a mystery. Serino thought so too.

 

[Unabogie]

Yes, and TM liked to record videos on his phone, too.

As was pointed out to me yesterday, I think that goes into to the whole lying about facts to get you to confess bucket.

Maybe.

He still said it.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Maybe.

He still said it.

I understand he said it. He says lots of things.

Since we have seen the witness statements ... which witness saw it ?

 

[Rare Truth]

Side note: anyone see those horrific black eyes from his oh-so-"likely" broken nose in that reenactment video?

I didn't.

 

[Rare Truth]

Could be this witness:

I transcribed the following myself: (it was not part of the CNN transcript, as they cut away at that time) [Link to video: http://www.wral.com/news/video/11004815/#/vid11004815 ]

DE LA RIONDA: Isn’t it true, sir, that at least one witness described a person chasing another person in the back of that area where that murder occurred?

GILBREATH: Yes.
...
O’MARA: A couple of questions...The continued to follow that Mr. Zimmerman continued to follow
what evidence do you have to support that?

GILBREATH: He was told not to follow him, he continued on for a period of time.

O’MARA: How long?

GILBREATH: I don't know … I would say less than a minute before he hung up, which is prior to the encounter between the two,

O’MARA: Okay. Any other evidence besides that there was a phone call that he was on for a minute? Any other evidence, any other witnesses?

GILBREATH: To?

O’MARA: To the fact that he quote continued to follow.

GILBREATH: We have a witness statement who observed, that was on the perimeter of this, who observed shadows or figures, excuse me, running by her residence.

 

[Dan O.]

Someone should play the reenactment video created on the morning of the 27th side by side with the interrogation on the evening of the 27th. In just listening to the two at different times, I didn't notice any glaring discrepancies. How does George with such a poor memory do that?

 

[Rare Truth]

...
In just listening to the two at different times, I didn't notice any glaring discrepancies. How does George with such a poor memory do that?

A memory so poor he couldn't remember all of these confusing streets,

all three of them.

Or when asked how did TM run? (after playing the part for GZ where he said ***! He's running) Stops tape. Seriono: "OK - Full sprint, full long flight, jogging, trotting...describe the run."

GZ: I don't remember...

Serino: I don't understand that George. If it was a bicycle theft, I'd say OK, but it's kind of important.

What kind of run George?

"Don't know" "doesn't remember", "doesn't know"...."doesn't remember"......

 

[Dancing David]

If you can't be bothered to listen and watch the current discovery dump, then why should someone be bothered to hold your hand and walk you through it?

Excuse me, I do not know why you find rude answers where you hand waves and then start to foam at the moth and fall over to be a form of argument I know that you seem to equate spraying urine with discussion, I find it rather dull as a form of discussion...

Now let us retrace the series of posts that led to your apparent tantrum.


Despite your broad statement about needing to wade through the document dump it concerns, ONE particular piece of interview.


http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8389007#post8389007

It would appear you made a specific statement and the ironic thing is this, you don't seem to know how to read and respond to specific questions.

I think this one is the most damning:

http://gzlegalcase.com/documents/statements/audio_interview_0229_3.mp3

Interview with Serino and female officer, where they play the 911 tape for GZ, and ask him to explain each portion.

LOT"S of problems with his story there.

So it would seem that you are mentioning the problems with this particular piece of evidence
But the irony is that when asked to please explain the which might be a problem, all you can do is have an apparent little hissy fit and stamp your feet


So maybe rather than pretending that it is my job to support YOUR statements, you could actually provide an example of a statement by GZ is the police interview that presents a 'problem'.

Now I believe that you are capable or rising above the usual bickering on both sides that you seem to be partial to, and you could actually explain which statements that GZ made in that interview which YOU believe present an actual 'problem'.

I am hopeful that you actually have a rational, coherent and detailed answers , rather then some puffed up piece of urine soaked snark.