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Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

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EdG said:
No, it wasn't. Officers are allowed to detain a person while conducting an initial investigation. Zimmerman was not formally arrested the night of the shooting but was legally detained in handcuffs.
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A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force... As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

It's probably not worth arguing, since there's nothing there that hurts Zimmerman and a whole lot of consistency in the retelling, but Florida does not allow "investigative detention" in self-defense cases absent probable cause that the use of force is illegal.
 
Serino: So you just jumped out of the car to see where he was running?

GZ: Yes.

Serino: That's not fear.
 
"I wasn't following, I was just going in the same direction he was.

Serino: "That's following."
 
Cylinder said:
A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force... As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

It's probably not worth arguing, since there's nothing there that hurts Zimmerman and a whole lot of consistency in the retelling, but Florida does not allow "investigative detention" in self-defense cases absent probable cause that the use of force is illegal.
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How the hell do you find a probable cause if you don't investigate and temporarily detain someone?

In your world, should any ole yahoo who just killed someone be able to prance away after he just says the words: it was self defense?
 
LTC8K6 said:
Keep in mind that the police don't necessarily believe everything they tell GZ or say to him.

Some of this is just to try and throw GZ off.
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I'm convinced: you haven't even listened to the tape I'm referring to.

And I understand police tactics, and don't disagree there was some of that from Serino,et al = but that one - is clearly GZ making some major muck ups, all on his own.
 
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Cylinder said:
A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force... As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

It's probably not worth arguing, since there's nothing there that hurts Zimmerman and a whole lot of consistency in the retelling, but Florida does not allow "investigative detention" in self-defense cases absent probable cause that the use of force is illegal.
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That is conflating terms that don't mean what you think they mean.

Neither handcuffing, transporting, or taking of voluntary statements is in and of itself illegal.
 
crimresearch said:
That is conflating terms that don't mean what you think they mean.

Neither handcuffing, transporting, or taking of voluntary statements is in and of itself illegal.
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So what are your thoughts on the order to remove GZ's handcuffs?

Singleton is ordered by Serino to remove GZ's handcuffs prior to interviewing him that night.
 
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Rare Truth said:
Serino: So you just jumped out of the car to see where he was running?

GZ: Yes.

Serino: That's not fear.
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Of course it wasn't. He knew full well that he (himself) was carrying a gun. At most, he only suspected Martin may have been armed.
 
Cylinder said:
You do understand that his questions aren't evidence, right? They're challenging his claims to see if anything changes.
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Did he follow?

Yes.

Stop talking to me like I'm a child. I understand what police questioning is all about.
 
Another thing on the money raised from the website portion of this thing: in one of the conversations between Zimmerman and his wife, he instructs her to use the money raised for his legal defense to pay off credit card bills, and she observes that when this is all done he will have a nice life (in the context, implying that the money they raised from the web plea will give them a nice life). He agrees even emphasizing that "we" will have a nice life (not just him).

I'm not aware of the conditions of the fund-raising, but if it was raised for the expressed purpose of legal defense fees, then it seems they were planning to commit fraud. They were apparently planning to use a public defender (telling the court that they were not aware of any other money at their disposal they could use for the defense), and then keep all that money for other purposes.

I think it will be interesting to hear what the Zimmerman's say they were thinking when they deceived the court about that money. Originally I thought they might simply say that they thought maybe the money could only be used for legal fees and not for posting bond, but they certainly can't make that claim given these conversations.
 
LTC8K6 said:
So what are your thoughts on the order to remove GZ's handcuffs?

Singleton is ordered by Serino to remove GZ's handcuffs prior to interviewing him that night.
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What do I make of non-events like following an SOP?

Or what do I make of the use of dramatic sounding conflict words like 'order'?

That some people take every bit of media hype and run with it to the most extreme position they can think of.
 
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